Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Very different system at Oxford from US. I studied at both. Oxford is very major focused. There are no outside classes, no liberal arts. Lecture and tutorial system. It's also exam based with first year exams and 3rd year exams for final standing.
I like the US system for undergrad and maybe do a 2nd BA at Oxford or Cambridge which will mature to an MA (do they still?).
I've never heard of this before so looked it up. I've got a kid who is a D.Phil candidate at Oxford now. He has mentioned only the Americans there getting M.Phils (a lot of them are biding time since American law schools want to see some maturity after college before coming to law school. So, there's a lot of LSAT prep going on in the grad dorms). Anyhow, the second undergraduate degree is available in medicine, it appears. I don't see any automatic elevation offered to a M.Phil. Check also to see if your federal (US) student loans can apply to that. My kid's Parent Plus loans were applicable to an Oxford D.Phil but I don't know if the U.S. feds will pay for a second undergraduate degree. The literature here says that British funding and loans are not applicable to the second undergraduate degree. https://www.ox.ac.uk/admissions/undergraduate/applying-to-oxford/second-undergraduate-degree
But, as a warning to other Americans, DPhils are not considered as rigorous as a PhD. I personally think it's BS as the reason is DPhils have to be completed in 3 years whereas American universities can force a PhD to be a student for a decade. So while I think it's total hogwash, there will be that discrimination coming back to the US.
Actually the difference isn't "rigor", it's pedagogy. In the U.S. the doctorate program can drag out for many years during which the applicant tutors undergraduate students and is allegedly "taught" how to teach. That doesn't happen in the U.K. system. It's assumed already that you are smart enough to teach. You are there to take advantage of the libraries and to write a "brilliant" thesis of 75,000 words which you usually have to defend.
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Very different system at Oxford from US. I studied at both. Oxford is very major focused. There are no outside classes, no liberal arts. Lecture and tutorial system. It's also exam based with first year exams and 3rd year exams for final standing.
I like the US system for undergrad and maybe do a 2nd BA at Oxford or Cambridge which will mature to an MA (do they still?).
I've never heard of this before so looked it up. I've got a kid who is a D.Phil candidate at Oxford now. He has mentioned only the Americans there getting M.Phils (a lot of them are biding time since American law schools want to see some maturity after college before coming to law school. So, there's a lot of LSAT prep going on in the grad dorms). Anyhow, the second undergraduate degree is available in medicine, it appears. I don't see any automatic elevation offered to a M.Phil. Check also to see if your federal (US) student loans can apply to that. My kid's Parent Plus loans were applicable to an Oxford D.Phil but I don't know if the U.S. feds will pay for a second undergraduate degree. The literature here says that British funding and loans are not applicable to the second undergraduate degree. https://www.ox.ac.uk/admissions/undergraduate/applying-to-oxford/second-undergraduate-degree
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Very different system at Oxford from US. I studied at both. Oxford is very major focused. There are no outside classes, no liberal arts. Lecture and tutorial system. It's also exam based with first year exams and 3rd year exams for final standing.
I like the US system for undergrad and maybe do a 2nd BA at Oxford or Cambridge which will mature to an MA (do they still?).
I've never heard of this before so looked it up. I've got a kid who is a D.Phil candidate at Oxford now. He has mentioned only the Americans there getting M.Phils (a lot of them are biding time since American law schools want to see some maturity after college before coming to law school. So, there's a lot of LSAT prep going on in the grad dorms). Anyhow, the second undergraduate degree is available in medicine, it appears. I don't see any automatic elevation offered to a M.Phil. Check also to see if your federal (US) student loans can apply to that. My kid's Parent Plus loans were applicable to an Oxford D.Phil but I don't know if the U.S. feds will pay for a second undergraduate degree. The literature here says that British funding and loans are not applicable to the second undergraduate degree. https://www.ox.ac.uk/admissions/undergraduate/applying-to-oxford/second-undergraduate-degree
But, as a warning to other Americans, DPhils are not considered as rigorous as a PhD. I personally think it's BS as the reason is DPhils have to be completed in 3 years whereas American universities can force a PhD to be a student for a decade. So while I think it's total hogwash, there will be that discrimination coming back to the US.
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Given the very high quality of students overall, how does this reflect in the curriculum? Some cynics say it's mostly about the connections because the undergraduate curriculum is the same at most institutions of reasonable quality. But I would suspect since there's no remedial education going, there's a difference in kind between a bachelor's from HYP/Oxbridge and your more typical bachelor's degree.
Students are very high quality at both, but let’s not pretend they are equal: Oxbridge is an order of magnitude easier to get in. This is true in every subject, but since admission is by course, some subjects — say, languages, humanities, social sciences other than Econ — are easier admits than, say, Emory.
You think an Oxford grad who read history is less knowledgeable than a typical Emory grad?
False. Oxford doesn't like Americans. Only 1.7% of the students are from here. Yet the university is over 50% international students (most from China). From Google "The percentage of students from North America is far smaller at Oxford – only 200 out of 12,000 undergrads (1.7%).Feb 20, 2018"
And dons are hard on Americans. I know of two M.Phil students who didn't score high enough to graduate. No warning. Nothing said from the tutors. Just "sorry - you failed - thanks for your two years of American bucks but your visa is now obsolete, go home". It can be a very tough place for Americans.
This is absurd.
Some Americans expect their hands held and that does not happen. They don’t “dislike” Americans, they treat them like everyone else.
If you don’t have a self-motivated student, it will be a bad fit. But a motivated student will do great.
Sure, some kids used to hand-holding will not be successful, but their helicopter parents should have realized that before they sent them. If you want to be that kind of parent, be responsible enough to realize that isn’t how Oxbridge works.
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Given the very high quality of students overall, how does this reflect in the curriculum? Some cynics say it's mostly about the connections because the undergraduate curriculum is the same at most institutions of reasonable quality. But I would suspect since there's no remedial education going, there's a difference in kind between a bachelor's from HYP/Oxbridge and your more typical bachelor's degree.
Students are very high quality at both, but let’s not pretend they are equal: Oxbridge is an order of magnitude easier to get in. This is true in every subject, but since admission is by course, some subjects — say, languages, humanities, social sciences other than Econ — are easier admits than, say, Emory.
You think an Oxford grad who read history is less knowledgeable than a typical Emory grad?
False. Oxford doesn't like Americans. Only 1.7% of the students are from here. Yet the university is over 50% international students (most from China). From Google "The percentage of students from North America is far smaller at Oxford – only 200 out of 12,000 undergrads (1.7%).Feb 20, 2018"
And dons are hard on Americans. I know of two M.Phil students who didn't score high enough to graduate. No warning. Nothing said from the tutors. Just "sorry - you failed - thanks for your two years of American bucks but your visa is now obsolete, go home". It can be a very tough place for Americans.
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Very different system at Oxford from US. I studied at both. Oxford is very major focused. There are no outside classes, no liberal arts. Lecture and tutorial system. It's also exam based with first year exams and 3rd year exams for final standing.
I like the US system for undergrad and maybe do a 2nd BA at Oxford or Cambridge which will mature to an MA (do they still?).
I've never heard of this before so looked it up. I've got a kid who is a D.Phil candidate at Oxford now. He has mentioned only the Americans there getting M.Phils (a lot of them are biding time since American law schools want to see some maturity after college before coming to law school. So, there's a lot of LSAT prep going on in the grad dorms). Anyhow, the second undergraduate degree is available in medicine, it appears. I don't see any automatic elevation offered to a M.Phil. Check also to see if your federal (US) student loans can apply to that. My kid's Parent Plus loans were applicable to an Oxford D.Phil but I don't know if the U.S. feds will pay for a second undergraduate degree. The literature here says that British funding and loans are not applicable to the second undergraduate degree. https://www.ox.ac.uk/admissions/undergraduate/applying-to-oxford/second-undergraduate-degree
Anonymous wrote:Very different system at Oxford from US. I studied at both. Oxford is very major focused. There are no outside classes, no liberal arts. Lecture and tutorial system. It's also exam based with first year exams and 3rd year exams for final standing.
I like the US system for undergrad and maybe do a 2nd BA at Oxford or Cambridge which will mature to an MA (do they still?).
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Given the very high quality of students overall, how does this reflect in the curriculum? Some cynics say it's mostly about the connections because the undergraduate curriculum is the same at most institutions of reasonable quality. But I would suspect since there's no remedial education going, there's a difference in kind between a bachelor's from HYP/Oxbridge and your more typical bachelor's degree.
Students are very high quality at both, but let’s not pretend they are equal: Oxbridge is an order of magnitude easier to get in. This is true in every subject, but since admission is by course, some subjects — say, languages, humanities, social sciences other than Econ — are easier admits than, say, Emory.
You think an Oxford grad who read history is less knowledgeable than a typical Emory grad?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Really you should compare the last two years at HYP to Oxbridge. The high school systems are also different.
True, in America the liberal arts curriculum is done in the first two years of college, while in Britain and Europe you generally take care of that in high school.
Anonymous wrote:Really you should compare the last two years at HYP to Oxbridge. The high school systems are also different.
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Given the very high quality of students overall, how does this reflect in the curriculum? Some cynics say it's mostly about the connections because the undergraduate curriculum is the same at most institutions of reasonable quality. But I would suspect since there's no remedial education going, there's a difference in kind between a bachelor's from HYP/Oxbridge and your more typical bachelor's degree.
Students are very high quality at both, but let’s not pretend they are equal: Oxbridge is an order of magnitude easier to get in. This is true in every subject, but since admission is by course, some subjects — say, languages, humanities, social sciences other than Econ — are easier admits than, say, Emory.