Anonymous
Post 04/23/2024 17:21     Subject: Do you think MC families are happier than UMC families?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I know families in the midwest who make 190K combined, raised 4 kids, and think they've made it. The kids all went to state college (think U Kansas, U Missouri), probably never heard of Amherst or Middlebury. They have like 80K left on 2.7% mortgage, drive two older model US cars, and are super happy. They have never been to Europe or Asia, don't see the need. Once every 5 years will go to Caribbean maybe Mexico. Most of the time their vacations are driving vacations. Depends on how you define MC, but there is a whole trench of MC across America who are ignorant of other possibilities, choices, avenues, careers. And ignorance is bliss.


OP here. This is exactly what I mean. I am thinking of one acquaintance whose kid recently went to Arizona or Alabama and totally proud and satisfied. They live in a modest home, have modest jobs and just seem happy. If you live in McLean and your kid has a 4.3 GPA, you won’t be able to get into UVA. It isn’t high enough. Your kid can play travel soccer or travel baseball their whole lives and get cut from the high school soccer team.


I know the locals think UVA is on par with the Ivies but the rest of the country doesn’t. It’s a very good well priced school but not something these parents who are super competitive would settle for.

As for kids sports that’s the way it is everywhere. Hundreds of kids start out, they start dropping out in middle school but there are still not enough spots for the kids who still want to play in high school.
Anonymous
Post 04/23/2024 17:20     Subject: Do you think MC families are happier than UMC families?
Anonymous wrote:No. MC families are three paychecks or less away from financial problems. Their fancy dinner out is to Olive Garden or Outback. Their vacations are camping or traveling to boring places to see relatives.

You can be UMC and not be competitive.


Some people actually like Olive Garden and Outback. Same with camping or traveling to see family. That's ok if you don't (I don't either), but that doesn't mean that the people doing these aren't happy.

The financial piece is a real concern.
Anonymous
Post 04/23/2024 17:16     Subject: Do you think MC families are happier than UMC families?
I feel the same OP. We moved to Loudoun thinking it would be more “middle class” (ha!) because the housing was cheaper and even still we bought less house than we could have afforded and also bought one of the bigger homes in the neighborhood, thinking we’d fit and these would be our people. Nope still strivers and competitiveness and brand consciousness as far as the eye can see. I don’t know where to go to get away, and now my kids are stuck not wanting to leave their MS/HS.
Anonymous
Post 04/23/2024 17:15     Subject: Re:Do you think MC families are happier than UMC families?
Anonymous wrote:It’s not really about MC vs UMC. This area is filled with snobby strivers who feel there is a very narrow path to define success. That’s the stuff that gets old. If you have good friends and can avoid getting caught up in the competitive one up environment, you can be happy and successful and so can your kids.

Pretty much this OP. We are in Vienna. You can decide whether or not to buy into the craziness. It’s not worth it. And yes it can permeate all aspects of life. Pick a random forum on DCUM and there’s people arguing about what neighbors/high schools/colleges/vacations/ are “good enough.” It’s an exhausting way to live. I’ll take the UMC $$ sans the aforementioned BS.
Anonymous
Post 04/23/2024 17:07     Subject: Do you think MC families are happier than UMC families?
Anonymous wrote:You can choose to not be bothered by your child going to a non-competitive college.


I agree.

And you can choose not to live in this environment. I know enough Ivy League graduates who take their children as they are. They aren’t all so bright and talented no matter what income range. If their child who had difficulties in high school graduated from community college they would be in the first row cheering.

You just have to remember that no, the kids in your town are not all talented. You just have more money than someone else to raise your kid from mediocre to competent. (You = general).

The braggers tend to talk the loudest so someone might think every kid is a genious.

Anonymous
Post 04/23/2024 15:38     Subject: Do you think MC families are happier than UMC families?
No, definitely not. They are always stressing about money or the next big expense.
Anonymous
Post 04/23/2024 15:35     Subject: Do you think MC families are happier than UMC families?
Upper Midwest here - Minneapolis. I assure you that plenty of people know Amherst and Middlebury, etc amongst those making $150K+. Not a lot of ignorance is bliss, but more like content with what they have. Quality of life is very high and people are well traveled.

In Minnesota it's tacky to talk so much about money and status, so there is a bit of pressure off in that sense. When we lived in NOVA I definitely tried not to play the game, but it's so easy to live a nice life in the Twin Cities and still enjoy things like trips to Europe and Asia (we have nonstop flights to both a 15 minute drive from our house in a walkable neighborhood). I'm so glad we pulled the trigger and moved several years back - it's a great place for kids to grow up.
Anonymous
Post 04/23/2024 14:58     Subject: Do you think MC families are happier than UMC families?
FWIW OP when I had a job knocking on doors back in the day, the people in the biggest houses seemed the most unhappy and the people in the modest townhouse communities seemed the happiest. Regardless of whether they gave me money or not. Maybe the ones in the townhouses were more likely to relate to me so they were nicer. Whereas the wealthy people are not use to treating people in jobs like mine as equals/humans (ironically I actually grew up in a very wealthy area).
Anonymous
Post 04/23/2024 14:53     Subject: Do you think MC families are happier than UMC families?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:What is UMC and what is MC?

Objectively I'd say we are UMC because our HHI ($270k) is well above the median for the DMV, but are nowhere near being able to afford a home in McLean, for example.

But I guess we live MC lives. We live in a townhouse. Our family vacations are not fancy. We do splurge on nice meals from time to time. We are pretty happy because:
- DH and I both make similar amounts of money and both have flexible, low-key jobs that allow for a lot of family time
- We have hybrid work schedules and when we do commute, it is not far.
- We live below our means so we don't stress about money

We are definitely not stressed about sending our DD to a competitive college. Worrying about that seems bizarre. We just want her to be happy and be able to support herself with a decent job. There are a lot of colleges that can deliver that.


You are not middle class.


I agree with you. Notice where I said "Objectively I'd say we are UMC because our HHI is well above the median for the DMV". That being said, we live in a neighborhood many UMC spurn because they think the schools are not good enough.

So answer my question - what is MC and what is UMC?
Anonymous
Post 04/23/2024 14:48     Subject: Do you think MC families are happier than UMC families?
Anonymous wrote:I thought the sweet spot was to basically be near the top of your peer group, whatever that is, and then you'll generally be content.

It's when you're in the middle of the pack or bottom that you feel the need to compete.

So if you're UMC who doesn't know a lot of the real rich and are the top of UMC, you're happy. If you're MC like the midwest families above who don't have experience with UMC, you're happy. And so on. As long as you aren't actually in physical need of course. I imagine barely poor people still aren't feeling great about their financial situation.


I’m definitely not near the top of the pack where I live and I’m pretty happy.
Anonymous
Post 04/23/2024 14:46     Subject: Do you think MC families are happier than UMC families?
I thought the sweet spot was to basically be near the top of your peer group, whatever that is, and then you'll generally be content.

It's when you're in the middle of the pack or bottom that you feel the need to compete.

So if you're UMC who doesn't know a lot of the real rich and are the top of UMC, you're happy. If you're MC like the midwest families above who don't have experience with UMC, you're happy. And so on. As long as you aren't actually in physical need of course. I imagine barely poor people still aren't feeling great about their financial situation.
Anonymous
Post 04/23/2024 14:42     Subject: Do you think MC families are happier than UMC families?
There’s actually data on this. The sweet spot is the upper Midwest, where there are lots of good jobs and the cost of living is reasonable.

I read this book on financial insecurity and modern America and it’s usually the upper middle class the most about money. Sociologist referred to it as guarding your financial status. I imagine it must be exhausting.

Middle class not upper class and I engage in the financial strategy known as holding steady. It’s stressful, but not the same way.
Anonymous
Post 04/23/2024 14:28     Subject: Do you think MC families are happier than UMC families?
Anonymous wrote:I know families in the midwest who make 190K combined, raised 4 kids, and think they've made it. The kids all went to state college (think U Kansas, U Missouri), probably never heard of Amherst or Middlebury. They have like 80K left on 2.7% mortgage, drive two older model US cars, and are super happy. They have never been to Europe or Asia, don't see the need. Once every 5 years will go to Caribbean maybe Mexico. Most of the time their vacations are driving vacations. Depends on how you define MC, but there is a whole trench of MC across America who are ignorant of other possibilities, choices, avenues, careers. And ignorance is bliss.


OP here. This is exactly what I mean. I am thinking of one acquaintance whose kid recently went to Arizona or Alabama and totally proud and satisfied. They live in a modest home, have modest jobs and just seem happy. If you live in McLean and your kid has a 4.3 GPA, you won’t be able to get into UVA. It isn’t high enough. Your kid can play travel soccer or travel baseball their whole lives and get cut from the high school soccer team.
Anonymous
Post 04/23/2024 14:14     Subject: Do you think MC families are happier than UMC families?
I know families in the midwest who make 190K combined, raised 4 kids, and think they've made it. The kids all went to state college (think U Kansas, U Missouri), probably never heard of Amherst or Middlebury. They have like 80K left on 2.7% mortgage, drive two older model US cars, and are super happy. They have never been to Europe or Asia, don't see the need. Once every 5 years will go to Caribbean maybe Mexico. Most of the time their vacations are driving vacations. Depends on how you define MC, but there is a whole trench of MC across America who are ignorant of other possibilities, choices, avenues, careers. And ignorance is bliss.
Anonymous
Post 04/23/2024 14:04     Subject: Re:Do you think MC families are happier than UMC families?
It’s not really about MC vs UMC. This area is filled with snobby strivers who feel there is a very narrow path to define success. That’s the stuff that gets old. If you have good friends and can avoid getting caught up in the competitive one up environment, you can be happy and successful and so can your kids.