Anonymous
04/20/2024 13:20
Subject: Hats off to law enforcement for averting a mass shooting at Wooten
Anonymous wrote:USA has freedom of speech and does not criminalize thoughts, not even dark thoughts. Movies, songs, and books about violent acts are not violent crimes.
He was charged with "threat of mass violence"
https://law.justia.com/codes/maryland/2022/criminal-law/title-3/subtitle-10/section-3-1001/
It's a misdemeanor, maximum sentence is 10 years or $10k in fines.
I predict he'll either be found not guilty, or not guilty due to mental incompetence. The history of past treatment for mental illness will back that up.
Anonymous
04/20/2024 13:14
Subject: Hats off to law enforcement for averting a mass shooting at Wooten
I feel sorry for this kid and his family. Perhaps the crazy libertarians will start realizing some people, very few but some, need a supervised environment.
Right now Maryland has weak forced treatment laws for the mentally ill. Instead, we all pretend Ye was rational and can make treatment decisions. What really happens is that society waits to throw him in prison so that maybe we are safe, but he can stay in jail while he refuses treatment and gets physical brain decline. It’s a moral failing by Maryland.
It’s up there with debtors prisons. Those with extreme mental illness are just waiting for a jail cell.
Right now Maryland has weak forced treatment laws for the mentally ill. Instead, we all pretend Ye was rational and can make treatment decisions. What really happens is that society waits to throw him in prison so that maybe we are safe, but he can stay in jail while he refuses treatment and gets physical brain decline. It’s a moral failing by Maryland.
It’s up there with debtors prisons. Those with extreme mental illness are just waiting for a jail cell.
Anonymous
04/20/2024 12:57
Subject: Hats off to law enforcement for averting a mass shooting at Wooten
This is a terrible tragedy that this child is experiencing. I'm so grateful that it was caught before any action actually occurred. I'm equally grateful that it is shinning a light on the crappy mental health care system we have.
It sounds like these parents "did something". They sought help, over and over again. Yet nothing seemed to work. These are the parents who turn to last resort program like Wilderness Therapy if they can afford it. In the Kids with SN forum, there are always posts about how could you send your child to XYZ program. At a certain point, you are out of options. You are now just trying to save your kids life. And these options are only available if you have money.
Many long term treatment facilities will only take a child if the child qualifies for medicaid or the school system is paying for it. If you have private insurance, it's the insurance company (the payor) who determines how long you are in the facility; not the medical staff at the facility. A reputable facility wants positive outcomes and that takes time. If they have to discharge before a patient is ready due to lack of payment, then they won't have the good outcomes. The good places need to know that they will get paid and be comfortable that they will be paid as long as the person needs medical treatment.
Getting long term residential placement via an IEP take a good lawyer which takes money. Getting medicaid means your family doesn't have a lot of money and you don't have private insurance. Some states have the Katie Becket waiver, but in Maryland, that waitlist is about 12 yrs long.
Its awful but the "good" therapeutic treatment occurs within the prison systems. My kid has explosive behaviors and I won't even consider a therapist that has not worked in a juvenile detention facility---run of the mill community therapists just don't get it.
I hope the child finally gets the help they need and the communities can begin to understand that some parents are doing everything that they can and it's still not enough. They are blocked by the system.
It sounds like these parents "did something". They sought help, over and over again. Yet nothing seemed to work. These are the parents who turn to last resort program like Wilderness Therapy if they can afford it. In the Kids with SN forum, there are always posts about how could you send your child to XYZ program. At a certain point, you are out of options. You are now just trying to save your kids life. And these options are only available if you have money.
Many long term treatment facilities will only take a child if the child qualifies for medicaid or the school system is paying for it. If you have private insurance, it's the insurance company (the payor) who determines how long you are in the facility; not the medical staff at the facility. A reputable facility wants positive outcomes and that takes time. If they have to discharge before a patient is ready due to lack of payment, then they won't have the good outcomes. The good places need to know that they will get paid and be comfortable that they will be paid as long as the person needs medical treatment.
Getting long term residential placement via an IEP take a good lawyer which takes money. Getting medicaid means your family doesn't have a lot of money and you don't have private insurance. Some states have the Katie Becket waiver, but in Maryland, that waitlist is about 12 yrs long.
Its awful but the "good" therapeutic treatment occurs within the prison systems. My kid has explosive behaviors and I won't even consider a therapist that has not worked in a juvenile detention facility---run of the mill community therapists just don't get it.
I hope the child finally gets the help they need and the communities can begin to understand that some parents are doing everything that they can and it's still not enough. They are blocked by the system.
Anonymous
04/20/2024 11:44
Subject: Hats off to law enforcement for averting a mass shooting at Wooten
This is a deeply troubled lonely kid, with gender confusion, not conventionally attractive, with no friends, who is acting out online and maybe or maybe not planning something to hurt people in real life. I am not sure any amount of psych work is going to "fix" them quickly. Keep the guns away, hopefully this kid has some time to grow out of this deep deep funk without hurting themself or others.
Anonymous
04/20/2024 11:42
Subject: Hats off to law enforcement for averting a mass shooting at Wooten
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:What a sad story about our crappy mental health care for teenagers. Hospitalized briefly in 2022, released without any improvement, and put into an isolating "remote learning program" because he is too mentally ill to attend school, which likely made his isolation and mental health even worse.
Also, the dad should be charged with something. He had a gun in a house with a teen who had already been hospitalized for threatening to shoot up a school or kill himself? Get rid of the damn gun.
He was hospitalized in Dec 22-Jan 23 and then followed by crisis services until he was hospitalized again from Feb 23 to July 23. From there he went to a residential program for quite a period of time. He has had pretty extensive mental health services. Seems pretty treatment resistant.
Didn't seem like they helped him at all.
Anonymous
04/20/2024 11:35
Subject: Hats off to law enforcement for averting a mass shooting at Wooten
Anonymous wrote:What a sad story about our crappy mental health care for teenagers. Hospitalized briefly in 2022, released without any improvement, and put into an isolating "remote learning program" because he is too mentally ill to attend school, which likely made his isolation and mental health even worse.
Also, the dad should be charged with something. He had a gun in a house with a teen who had already been hospitalized for threatening to shoot up a school or kill himself? Get rid of the damn gun.
Oh but an amendment. Oh but this is America.
Anonymous
04/20/2024 11:21
Subject: Hats off to law enforcement for averting a mass shooting at Wooten
Anonymous wrote:What a sad story about our crappy mental health care for teenagers. Hospitalized briefly in 2022, released without any improvement, and put into an isolating "remote learning program" because he is too mentally ill to attend school, which likely made his isolation and mental health even worse.
Also, the dad should be charged with something. He had a gun in a house with a teen who had already been hospitalized for threatening to shoot up a school or kill himself? Get rid of the damn gun.
He was hospitalized in Dec 22-Jan 23 and then followed by crisis services until he was hospitalized again from Feb 23 to July 23. From there he went to a residential program for quite a period of time. He has had pretty extensive mental health services. Seems pretty treatment resistant.
Anonymous
04/20/2024 11:10
Subject: Hats off to law enforcement for averting a mass shooting at Wooten
What a sad story about our crappy mental health care for teenagers. Hospitalized briefly in 2022, released without any improvement, and put into an isolating "remote learning program" because he is too mentally ill to attend school, which likely made his isolation and mental health even worse.
Also, the dad should be charged with something. He had a gun in a house with a teen who had already been hospitalized for threatening to shoot up a school or kill himself? Get rid of the damn gun.
Also, the dad should be charged with something. He had a gun in a house with a teen who had already been hospitalized for threatening to shoot up a school or kill himself? Get rid of the damn gun.
Anonymous
04/20/2024 11:06
Subject: Hats off to law enforcement for averting a mass shooting at Wooten
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:He has had a few psychiatrist inpatient admissions. Seems the manifesto is parts of his real life mixed in with fiction.
There was more than just the manifesto/memoir/work of fiction. There were Google searches and the purchase of a BB gun.
According to him the manifesto was actually a book draft and the google searches were research for the book.
I didn't see anything about a BB gun but if he actually was planning to try to be a mass murderer or serial killer, a BB gun doesn't seem like a good choice.
It will be interesting to see where this goes given the mental health issues and fiction / non fiction aspects of the book / manifesto / plan.
He is facing ten years in prison given the charges. A long time for an 18 year old and even longer / more isolating given he is biologically female - probably would mean segregation or protective custody.
I also find it disturbing that people would defend the behavior by calling it a work of fiction. I mean, we have parents in this country who are serving prison sentences in connection with disturbing writings that were labeled works of fiction so we know the consequences of calling it wrong. I’m not saying it’s not a possibility, but the level of doubt expressed about the arrest is disturbing.
I think it’s pretty tragic that an 18 year old whose parents, the medical system and the school district seemingly worked hard to help is at the point where the future might realistically be a sentence of more than half of the life of this teen will be spent in prison. But the real scary thing is that despite a community of resources being poured into this teenager, this is where he is. It’s scary that we don’t know how to successfully treat some mental illness and that means that innocent people surrounding those whose conditions are intractable are vulnerable. It makes me really sad for the family - I can’t imagine their pain, but I am glad for them that it was discovered because their pain could be far worse.
It’s kind of like cancer. There are some kinds you can treat, and come you can’t. It’s sad, but that’s the way it is. Unfortunately this teen will need to be locked away or in a residential inpatient facility because he is clearly a threat to the general public. [/quote]
You know nothing about our broken mental health care system. You only get locked up for a few days if you are an *imminent* threat to yourself or others. It is a very narrow standard. No crime was committed so he can't be held convicted and then held involuntarily and private medical insurance will not pay for more than a few days hospitalization.
Anonymous
04/20/2024 10:58
Subject: Hats off to law enforcement for averting a mass shooting at Wooten
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:He has had a few psychiatrist inpatient admissions. Seems the manifesto is parts of his real life mixed in with fiction.
There was more than just the manifesto/memoir/work of fiction. There were Google searches and the purchase of a BB gun.
According to him the manifesto was actually a book draft and the google searches were research for the book.
I didn't see anything about a BB gun but if he actually was planning to try to be a mass murderer or serial killer, a BB gun doesn't seem like a good choice.
It will be interesting to see where this goes given the mental health issues and fiction / non fiction aspects of the book / manifesto / plan.
He is facing ten years in prison given the charges. A long time for an 18 year old and even longer / more isolating given he is biologically female - probably would mean segregation or protective custody.
I don't think you should go to prison for a hypothetical crime that didn't happen.
Anonymous
04/20/2024 10:57
Subject: Hats off to law enforcement for averting a mass shooting at Wooten
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Surprised this isn't on here, but it has gotten national media attention:
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/maryland-teenager-accused-plotting-school-shooting-129-page-document-rcna148516
So scary to think we could have a mass shooting right here at home!
This conclusively proves the CEO program works fine and that the SRO program with all its negatives isn't needed.
+100
Anonymous
04/20/2024 10:55
Subject: Hats off to law enforcement for averting a mass shooting at Wooten
The Montgomery County press conference yesterday really showed the case. However, Chief Jones did mistakenly say the Ye’s father had a gun.
Anonymous
04/20/2024 10:10
Subject: Hats off to law enforcement for averting a mass shooting at Wooten
USA has freedom of speech and does not criminalize thoughts, not even dark thoughts. Movies, songs, and books about violent acts are not violent crimes.
Ye didn't hurt anyone. Between hospitalizations, gun control, and whatever else, the private writings and web searches didn't harm anyone or create imminent fanger.
I can't comment regarding public social media posts because I don't know what was posted (but I do know several current and former government officials who have certainly posted worse.)
In this case, the system worked, and officials intervened before mentally unwell person attempted to harm anyone. That doesn't mean a crime was necessarily committed or a long prison term is warranted. It's a great thing if we have systems in place to prevent violent acts and redirect people to the care they need.
Ye didn't hurt anyone. Between hospitalizations, gun control, and whatever else, the private writings and web searches didn't harm anyone or create imminent fanger.
I can't comment regarding public social media posts because I don't know what was posted (but I do know several current and former government officials who have certainly posted worse.)
In this case, the system worked, and officials intervened before mentally unwell person attempted to harm anyone. That doesn't mean a crime was necessarily committed or a long prison term is warranted. It's a great thing if we have systems in place to prevent violent acts and redirect people to the care they need.
Anonymous
04/20/2024 09:32
Subject: Hats off to law enforcement for averting a mass shooting at Wooten
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:More proof that SROs aren't needed
Ok this is kind of dumb. The kid wasn't in the school and never attended the school physically.
Anonymous
04/20/2024 09:11
Subject: Hats off to law enforcement for averting a mass shooting at Wooten
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:He has had a few psychiatrist inpatient admissions. Seems the manifesto is parts of his real life mixed in with fiction.
There was more than just the manifesto/memoir/work of fiction. There were Google searches and the purchase of a BB gun.
According to him the manifesto was actually a book draft and the google searches were research for the book.
I didn't see anything about a BB gun but if he actually was planning to try to be a mass murderer or serial killer, a BB gun doesn't seem like a good choice.
It will be interesting to see where this goes given the mental health issues and fiction / non fiction aspects of the book / manifesto / plan.
He is facing ten years in prison given the charges. A long time for an 18 year old and even longer / more isolating given he is biologically female - probably would mean segregation or protective custody.
I also find it disturbing that people would defend the behavior by calling it a work of fiction. I mean, we have parents in this country who are serving prison sentences in connection with disturbing writings that were labeled works of fiction so we know the consequences of calling it wrong. I’m not saying it’s not a possibility, but the level of doubt expressed about the arrest is disturbing.
I think it’s pretty tragic that an 18 year old whose parents, the medical system and the school district seemingly worked hard to help is at the point where the future might realistically be a sentence of more than half of the life of this teen will be spent in prison. But the real scary thing is that despite a community of resources being poured into this teenager, this is where he is. It’s scary that we don’t know how to successfully treat some mental illness and that means that innocent people surrounding those whose conditions are intractable are vulnerable. It makes me really sad for the family - I can’t imagine their pain, but I am glad for them that it was discovered because their pain could be far worse.
It’s kind of like cancer. There are some kinds you can treat, and come you can’t. It’s sad, but that’s the way it is. Unfortunately this teen will need to be locked away or in a residential inpatient facility because he is clearly a threat to the general public.