Anonymous
04/18/2024 18:53
Subject: Questions about Latin
Anonymous wrote:It saddens me that folks are looking at scores on PARCC, one of the least respected tests, and not really very interesting cognitively, as a measure for what the quality of the school. I would take a tour, check out the feel, see if you like it, see if you can talk to families whose kids are similar to yours in ability and interest. It’s possible to have a stand out experience even at a school with so-so scores. Latin’s longevity, school culture and small size are two things that would attract me to it. I don’t have a kid there, have no horse in this race, am just an educator who worked at another charter school wants to amplify that test scores are just one measure.
By that measure, Eastern, especially their IB program, is also worth looking at.
Anonymous
04/18/2024 12:16
Subject: Questions about Latin
Anonymous wrote:It saddens me that folks are looking at scores on PARCC, one of the least respected tests, and not really very interesting cognitively, as a measure for what the quality of the school. I would take a tour, check out the feel, see if you like it, see if you can talk to families whose kids are similar to yours in ability and interest. It’s possible to have a stand out experience even at a school with so-so scores. Latin’s longevity, school culture and small size are two things that would attract me to it. I don’t have a kid there, have no horse in this race, am just an educator who worked at another charter school wants to amplify that test scores are just one measure.
I think this is largely a function of school choice. There are so many middle school options in DC that there's no way you can do what you're describing for each and every school. PARCC is a first-pass filter that helps people identify a smaller set of schools to further research.
Anonymous
04/18/2024 10:50
Subject: Questions about Latin
Anonymous wrote:It saddens me that folks are looking at scores on PARCC, one of the least respected tests, and not really very interesting cognitively, as a measure for what the quality of the school. I would take a tour, check out the feel, see if you like it, see if you can talk to families whose kids are similar to yours in ability and interest. It’s possible to have a stand out experience even at a school with so-so scores. Latin’s longevity, school culture and small size are two things that would attract me to it. I don’t have a kid there, have no horse in this race, am just an educator who worked at another charter school wants to amplify that test scores are just one measure.
There are things in the PARCC data which are interesting even if you don't think the scores are useful, like that Latin, Walls, and JR are the only schools with considerable numbers of 9th graders taking Algebra II. (And BASIS -- obviously, different curriculum.) It's less than 10 everywhere else and 25+ at those schools.
Anonymous
04/18/2024 10:48
Subject: Questions about Latin
.Anonymous wrote:Same poster as above: I’m just remembering that I do know a few Latin high school students and they’ve all been terrific: warm, engaged, self-driven, able to speak about their studies in an interesting way. Maybe it’s the bias in my sample group, but these kids didn’t seem any different from kids I know from the top private schools.
I'm also a former educator (private high school) and have kids in DCPS, and I think this is true. I think Latin is super similar to many of the top private school (with fewer resources)-- the focus in humanities, the warm environment, training them in how to articulate their thoughts, etc. but the STEM instruction at most private schools is also not that strong (with few exceptions). It certainly was not very good in the school where I taught. I have STEMy kids and we opted not to lottery for Latin for that reason.
Anonymous
04/18/2024 10:38
Subject: Questions about Latin
Same poster as above: I’m just remembering that I do know a few Latin high school students and they’ve all been terrific: warm, engaged, self-driven, able to speak about their studies in an interesting way. Maybe it’s the bias in my sample group, but these kids didn’t seem any different from kids I know from the top private schools.
Anonymous
04/18/2024 10:36
Subject: Questions about Latin
It saddens me that folks are looking at scores on PARCC, one of the least respected tests, and not really very interesting cognitively, as a measure for what the quality of the school. I would take a tour, check out the feel, see if you like it, see if you can talk to families whose kids are similar to yours in ability and interest. It’s possible to have a stand out experience even at a school with so-so scores. Latin’s longevity, school culture and small size are two things that would attract me to it. I don’t have a kid there, have no horse in this race, am just an educator who worked at another charter school wants to amplify that test scores are just one measure.
Anonymous
04/18/2024 05:30
Subject: Questions about Latin
Right, Latin's PARRC/CAPE scores aren't the best, but one or two seniors crack Ivy League colleges almost every year and many make it to top SLACs. Latin's highest performers are on a par with those at Walls and BASIS for humanities subjects. If you get into Latin, stick with it and supplement a bit here and there, you can make the school work if you're OK with the classics-based curriculum. The environment is much healthier for the kids, the leadership is far better and the faculty is much more stable than at BASIS. Some of Latin's highest middle school performers still leave for Walls and privates, hardly the end of the world.
Anonymous
04/18/2024 03:47
Subject: Questions about Latin
Anonymous wrote:All of the data indicates that Latin tests poorly in math and Latin parents have various (BS) reasons for why folks should ignore the data.
They are 4th in the city in both reading and math. The schools that do better are two selective admission schools and BASIS, where a lot of the students leave by high school. Draw the line for "poor" wherever you want, but it's been explained to you repeatedly why the 10th grade data, which is based on the 13 kids who are the least accelerated in math, is not a good metric.
Anonymous
04/17/2024 23:25
Subject: Questions about Latin
All of the data indicates that Latin tests poorly in math and Latin parents have various (BS) reasons for why folks should ignore the data.
Anonymous
04/17/2024 22:12
Subject: Questions about Latin
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Latin’s test scores are pretty bad, in general. Many Latin parents will brush this off. Only you can decide if you’re ok with it.
In math, they are lower than three other high schools in DC. Two of those have selective admissions. One has a high attrition rate.
Here are the 4+ 10th grade PARCC scores:
BASIS
ELA 87.5
Math 90.0
Walls
ELA 93.5
Math 56.0
Banneker
ELA 84.09
Math 36.0
Latin
ELA 71.91
Math <=10.0
DCI
ELA 45.26
Math suppressed [27.48 in 9th grade]
And before you say “Latin must have admitted a bunch of dumb kids!” like the PP, know that Latin made a total of two waitlist offers for 10th grade that year.
A few posts up from yours was a discussion of why 10th or 11th grade scores in math are often not reflective of the student population as a whole, since most students are no longer taking math PARCC in those grades. But you list the 10th grade scores anyway. Except for DCI, where you shared the 9th grade scores because 10th grade data is suppressed, likely due to the very same factors that make the other schools' 10th grade scores not very meaningful.
Willful manipulation to make a misleading point, or innumeracy?
But... Why are BASIS and WALLs 10 the grade math scores so much better?
Hard to claim "manipulate" data when this person just posted the same data point for 5 different schools.
In SY22-23 BASIS had all 9th graders take the Geometry PARCC and all 10th graders take Algebra I, though most (all?) students completed coursework for those subjects in middle school. I would guess this delayed testing + attrition accounts for much of the difference.
Walls is DC's premier application high school. Even the weakest students are going to be stronger than those at a school students enroll in by right or via lottery.
So yes, either intentional manipulation or a poor understanding of the data.
Anonymous
04/17/2024 21:53
Subject: Questions about Latin
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Latin’s test scores are pretty bad, in general. Many Latin parents will brush this off. Only you can decide if you’re ok with it.
In math, they are lower than three other high schools in DC. Two of those have selective admissions. One has a high attrition rate.
Here are the 4+ 10th grade PARCC scores:
BASIS
ELA 87.5
Math 90.0
Walls
ELA 93.5
Math 56.0
Banneker
ELA 84.09
Math 36.0
Latin
ELA 71.91
Math <=10.0
DCI
ELA 45.26
Math suppressed [27.48 in 9th grade]
And before you say “Latin must have admitted a bunch of dumb kids!” like the PP, know that Latin made a total of two waitlist offers for 10th grade that year.
A few posts up from yours was a discussion of why 10th or 11th grade scores in math are often not reflective of the student population as a whole, since most students are no longer taking math PARCC in those grades. But you list the 10th grade scores anyway. Except for DCI, where you shared the 9th grade scores because 10th grade data is suppressed, likely due to the very same factors that make the other schools' 10th grade scores not very meaningful.
Willful manipulation to make a misleading point, or innumeracy?
But... Why are BASIS and WALLs 10 the grade math scores so much better?
Hard to claim "manipulate" data when this person just posted the same data point for 5 different schools.
It is not the "same" data point at all. At BASIS, all of the 10th graders take the math PARCC. At Walls and Latin, it's just the minority of kids who took algebra as 9th graders, who are the worst-scoring in the school. And even between Walls and Latin, part of what you're looking at is how they select kids into the math class they take in 9th grade -- again, a selection issue. No one is arguing that Walls and BASIS don't have the best scores in the city, but the 10th grade scores are the worst way of looking at this.
Anonymous
04/17/2024 21:30
Subject: Questions about Latin
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Latin’s test scores are pretty bad, in general. Many Latin parents will brush this off. Only you can decide if you’re ok with it.
In math, they are lower than three other high schools in DC. Two of those have selective admissions. One has a high attrition rate.
Here are the 4+ 10th grade PARCC scores:
BASIS
ELA 87.5
Math 90.0
Walls
ELA 93.5
Math 56.0
Banneker
ELA 84.09
Math 36.0
Latin
ELA 71.91
Math <=10.0
DCI
ELA 45.26
Math suppressed [27.48 in 9th grade]
And before you say “Latin must have admitted a bunch of dumb kids!” like the PP, know that Latin made a total of two waitlist offers for 10th grade that year.
A few posts up from yours was a discussion of why 10th or 11th grade scores in math are often not reflective of the student population as a whole, since most students are no longer taking math PARCC in those grades. But you list the 10th grade scores anyway. Except for DCI, where you shared the 9th grade scores because 10th grade data is suppressed, likely due to the very same factors that make the other schools' 10th grade scores not very meaningful.
Willful manipulation to make a misleading point, or innumeracy?
But... Why are BASIS and WALLs 10 the grade math scores so much better?
Hard to claim "manipulate" data when this person just posted the same data point for 5 different schools.
Anonymous
04/17/2024 21:12
Subject: Questions about Latin
Latin is also #4 in terms of overall ELA scores. Walls, BASIS, Banneker, Latin. The same list as for math, except with BASIS and Walls switched.
Anonymous
04/17/2024 20:04
Subject: Questions about Latin
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Latin’s test scores are pretty bad, in general. Many Latin parents will brush this off. Only you can decide if you’re ok with it.
In math, they are lower than three other high schools in DC. Two of those have selective admissions. One has a high attrition rate.
Here are the 4+ 10th grade PARCC scores:
BASIS
ELA 87.5
Math 90.0
Walls
ELA 93.5
Math 56.0
Banneker
ELA 84.09
Math 36.0
Latin
ELA 71.91
Math <=10.0
DCI
ELA 45.26
Math suppressed [27.48 in 9th grade]
And before you say “Latin must have admitted a bunch of dumb kids!” like the PP, know that Latin made a total of two waitlist offers for 10th grade that year.
A few posts up from yours was a discussion of why 10th or 11th grade scores in math are often not reflective of the student population as a whole, since most students are no longer taking math PARCC in those grades. But you list the 10th grade scores anyway. Except for DCI, where you shared the 9th grade scores because 10th grade data is suppressed, likely due to the very same factors that make the other schools' 10th grade scores not very meaningful.
Willful manipulation to make a misleading point, or innumeracy?
Anonymous
04/17/2024 19:08
Subject: Questions about Latin
Jeez if Latin’s bad, what’s that make DCI?