Anonymous wrote:I agree that some shows are unnecessarily cruel and graphic. Are you angry about the violence portrayed in the show, or that things like that have actually happened?

I’m more upset about the latter. The Japanese really did do some really horrible things that are being forgotten with time that needs to be documented and remembered by everyone, screams and all.

This is a short read that may put more horrid stuff in your head. No screaming or vivid violence but soul-crushing because it is real history. Maybe reading this or the shogun book will be more your style.

https://www.cnn.com/travel/bataan-death-march-intl-hnk-ml-dst/index.html

Yes, the Japanese really did do some horrible things that are being forgotten, but so has everyone else. It is probably more accurate to say that humanity really did do some horrible things that are being forgotten.

We need to remember that we all have those dark parts in our past so that we recognize that evil and cruelty is not contained to any one group. If we start feeling too smug about being “good guys” and assume that all the “bad guys” are other, we might let down our guard and let evil rise amongst us.

www.doesthedogdie.com is my favorite trigger warning website for movies.

You can check the imdb Parent’s Guide on any show/movie and it will list any violence.

https://m.imdb.com/title/tt2788316/parentalguide/violence

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I agree that some shows are unnecessarily cruel and graphic. Are you angry about the violence portrayed in the show, or that things like that have actually happened?

I’m more upset about the latter. The Japanese really did do some really horrible things that are being forgotten with time that needs to be documented and remembered by everyone, screams and all.

This is a short read that may put more horrid stuff in your head. No screaming or vivid violence but soul-crushing because it is real history. Maybe reading this or the shogun book will be more your style.

https://www.cnn.com/travel/bataan-death-march-intl-hnk-ml-dst/index.html

Thank you for noting the Bataan Death March. Inhuman. I also knew those who were deeply changed from their experiences, but rarely discussed it. I guess the darkness was so deep it had to be locked away.

Didn't the US also do the same thing to Native Americans? Forgot under which president but am pretty sure it's famous.

One atrocity does not cancel out, let alone justify, another. There's no zero-sum balance on such cruelty. And you're thinking of the Trail of Tears, which took place over two decades. I suggest you read up on both tragedies.

No one said this justifies anything, just pointing out that in the larger context of history the Bataan death march is not that notable in that it attests to the cruelty of humanity, whether it happened in another century or this century.

I added that the Trail of Tears took place over two decades as background of that particular piece of history, not in comparison to Japan or Bataan or anything else. I still think further reading would be a benefit.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I agree that some shows are unnecessarily cruel and graphic. Are you angry about the violence portrayed in the show, or that things like that have actually happened?

I’m more upset about the latter. The Japanese really did do some really horrible things that are being forgotten with time that needs to be documented and remembered by everyone, screams and all.

This is a short read that may put more horrid stuff in your head. No screaming or vivid violence but soul-crushing because it is real history. Maybe reading this or the shogun book will be more your style.

https://www.cnn.com/travel/bataan-death-march-intl-hnk-ml-dst/index.html

Thank you for noting the Bataan Death March. Inhuman. I also knew those who were deeply changed from their experiences, but rarely discussed it. I guess the darkness was so deep it had to be locked away.

Didn't the US also do the same thing to Native Americans? Forgot under which president but am pretty sure it's famous.

One atrocity does not cancel out, let alone justify, another. There's no zero-sum balance on such cruelty. And you're thinking of the Trail of Tears, which took place over two decades. I suggest you read up on both tragedies.

No one said this justifies anything, just pointing out that in the larger context of history the Bataan death march is not that notable in that it attests to the cruelty of humanity, whether it happened in another century or this century.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
IT'S IN THE BOOK, which happens to be a bestseller and something you should be at least peripherally aware of.

I am aware of the book but was a kid when it came out, and never read it. All I heard was how much people loved this show and how many top 10 lists it was getting on. I was super duper not prepared for the man whose flesh was dripping from his screaming face as he boiled to death. Shame on me, I guess! I'm not saying they tricked me, or it should be illegal, I'm saying it was really disturbing.

I'm 44 and really enjoyed the book as a teen in the 90s, long after it had been published in 1975. I'm a bookworm, and can read a lot of stuff I cannot watch onscreen. Not going to watch Shogun.

Dune is another example of a screen adaptation of a supremely violent book. They took a different tack and decided not to delve into the sexual torture present in the books.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I agree that some shows are unnecessarily cruel and graphic. Are you angry about the violence portrayed in the show, or that things like that have actually happened?

I’m more upset about the latter. The Japanese really did do some really horrible things that are being forgotten with time that needs to be documented and remembered by everyone, screams and all.

This is a short read that may put more horrid stuff in your head. No screaming or vivid violence but soul-crushing because it is real history. Maybe reading this or the shogun book will be more your style.

https://www.cnn.com/travel/bataan-death-march-intl-hnk-ml-dst/index.html

Thank you for noting the Bataan Death March. Inhuman. I also knew those who were deeply changed from their experiences, but rarely discussed it. I guess the darkness was so deep it had to be locked away.

Didn't the US also do the same thing to Native Americans? Forgot under which president but am pretty sure it's famous.

One atrocity does not cancel out, let alone justify, another. There's no zero-sum balance on such cruelty. And you're thinking of the Trail of Tears, which took place over two decades. I suggest you read up on both tragedies.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I agree that some shows are unnecessarily cruel and graphic. Are you angry about the violence portrayed in the show, or that things like that have actually happened?

I’m more upset about the latter. The Japanese really did do some really horrible things that are being forgotten with time that needs to be documented and remembered by everyone, screams and all.

This is a short read that may put more horrid stuff in your head. No screaming or vivid violence but soul-crushing because it is real history. Maybe reading this or the shogun book will be more your style.

https://www.cnn.com/travel/bataan-death-march-intl-hnk-ml-dst/index.html

Thank you for noting the Bataan Death March. Inhuman. I also knew those who were deeply changed from their experiences, but rarely discussed it. I guess the darkness was so deep it had to be locked away.

Didn't the US also do the same thing to Native Americans? Forgot under which president but am pretty sure it's famous.

It was called the Trail of Tears. Very terrible. Different because it was the forced displacement of Native tribes so that their land could be colonized. So these were people who had lived in their homes for generations being forced to leave under inhumane conditions. The Bataan Death March involved POWs. It doesn't make it okay, but it's functionally different.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I agree that some shows are unnecessarily cruel and graphic. Are you angry about the violence portrayed in the show, or that things like that have actually happened?

I’m more upset about the latter. The Japanese really did do some really horrible things that are being forgotten with time that needs to be documented and remembered by everyone, screams and all.

This is a short read that may put more horrid stuff in your head. No screaming or vivid violence but soul-crushing because it is real history. Maybe reading this or the shogun book will be more your style.

https://www.cnn.com/travel/bataan-death-march-intl-hnk-ml-dst/index.html

Thank you for noting the Bataan Death March. Inhuman. I also knew those who were deeply changed from their experiences, but rarely discussed it. I guess the darkness was so deep it had to be locked away.

Didn't the US also do the same thing to Native Americans? Forgot under which president but am pretty sure it's famous.

Do you mean the Trail of Tears?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I agree that some shows are unnecessarily cruel and graphic. Are you angry about the violence portrayed in the show, or that things like that have actually happened?

I’m more upset about the latter. The Japanese really did do some really horrible things that are being forgotten with time that needs to be documented and remembered by everyone, screams and all.

This is a short read that may put more horrid stuff in your head. No screaming or vivid violence but soul-crushing because it is real history. Maybe reading this or the shogun book will be more your style.

https://www.cnn.com/travel/bataan-death-march-intl-hnk-ml-dst/index.html

Thank you for noting the Bataan Death March. Inhuman. I also knew those who were deeply changed from their experiences, but rarely discussed it. I guess the darkness was so deep it had to be locked away.

Didn't the US also do the same thing to Native Americans? Forgot under which president but am pretty sure it's famous.

Anonymous wrote:I agree that some shows are unnecessarily cruel and graphic. Are you angry about the violence portrayed in the show, or that things like that have actually happened?

I’m more upset about the latter. The Japanese really did do some really horrible things that are being forgotten with time that needs to be documented and remembered by everyone, screams and all.

This is a short read that may put more horrid stuff in your head. No screaming or vivid violence but soul-crushing because it is real history. Maybe reading this or the shogun book will be more your style.

https://www.cnn.com/travel/bataan-death-march-intl-hnk-ml-dst/index.html

Thank you for noting the Bataan Death March. Inhuman. I also knew those who were deeply changed from their experiences, but rarely discussed it. I guess the darkness was so deep it had to be locked away.

Thanks for pointing this out OP. I really hate these kinds of things in shows.

Anonymous wrote:I guess I'm the opposite. I love realistic scenes and enjoy some violence. I'm not a violent person at all either. Game of Thrones was the best series in my mind. I'm waiting until Shogun is over before subscribing to FX, but I'm looking forward to it.

I actually can't watch the cheesy, sickly sweet Hallmark movies or shows like Virgin River. I think people that watch stuff like that are sheltered, unimaginative and separated from reality.

I am OP and I don't watch Hallmark movies or Virgin River either.

Anonymous wrote:It's gruesome but doesn't stop my enjoyment of the show overall.

Same. I find all the historical stuff and learning about Japanese culture/politics at that time really fascinating, and the cast is incredibly good.

Also, the first episode is more violent than the others (though there is violence throughout). There's really nothing like that boiling scene in the next 5 episodes (I haven not watched this week's yet). The show involved military conflict, so there are some battle scenes, but war is violent. There are also other examples of more personal, specific violence, but it's not all the time and it's done to show who certain characters are or to give a sense of the kind of place and environment they are in. The show is partially about the concepts of honor and death in Japanese society at the time, and with the central characters, there are multiple storylines that revolve around the idea of someone needing to die to make amends or to restore honor. But it's presented in a complex way, it's not clear cut.

I get some people are just sensitive to violence in TV and movies and if so, it might not be for you. But I actually think this show is much more thoughtful about violence and gore than Game of Thrones (especially the first couple seasons, and especially with regards to intimate violence towards women). I am not squeamish about violence generally, and there are things in GoT that I simply cannot or will not watch. And I say that as someone who read the books and didn't mind the violence in the books because I felt it was presented in a more nuanced way, and in the show it was often very gratuitous and almost ecstatic.

Shogun isn't like that, IMO. But yes the boiling alive scene is probably the most alarming and gratuitous violence in the show.

The show does get better. The book is violent, but not as terrible as other movies that took place in recent history. I love it, so interesting and shocking. I was more upset watching "The Pacific" or one of those WW2 movies where they interview the real people at the end. It was so recent and it was so gruesome. I couldn't finish watching All Quiet on th.e Western Front, that was so sad. I watch these movies to take my blinders off for a moment and I'm so grateful that I live in comfort.