Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So it about matches inflation.

No. The college inflation rate was almost 2x the overall inflation rate. The overall was 115%. Compared to the 200% in the OP. You cannot seriously think the cost of American colleges is defensible? US policy created a knowledge economy where most jobs require a degree. Then gave govt subsidized loans to help people pay for it. Okay, fine. THEN states cut education spending especially for college during the Great Recession and most never returned those levels. So we have inelastic demand because 3 generations have been told you’ll be left behind without a degree and the colleges know public and private loans are available, so jack up tuition accordingly. Then there’s also perception. No college wants to cut tuition below its peers because people conflate cost with quality. A college doesn’t want to be perceived as the low rent version. But something will have to be done. As these inflation rates are not sustainable

The bolded is definitely true of most colleges, and it's also true that a lot of consumers of college education (and yes I chose the word consumer intentionally here) think that price and value are correlated.

But there is also a growing population of people who look for good value in schools, and there are schools seeking to serve those families. Some of it is hidden because some of these schools will still have high sticker prices, but are well known for giving considerable aid to students with great grades and scores, because they use the discount to lure higher quality students, which also helps them attract higher quality faculty. I suspect we'll see more of these schools, and more families looking for them, moving forward, because as you say, we cannot sustain the current trajectory.

I actually think one of the best things that could happen to colleges would be for us to do a collective reframe on non-college career paths. There is still so much resistance to this in American culture and it's bad for everyone because (1) not all kids belong in or are happy in college, (2) a huge number of jobs really do not benefit from a college degree and in some cases I think it's a detriment, and (3) there are plenty of careers with decent earning potential that don't require specialized academic knowledge, so the link between college and earnings does not have to be nearly as close as it currently is.

Not only does this situation hurt students and families who are wasting money on college when it's not a good fit and might be superfluous to their future, but it's also bad for all the kids who really belong in college and are pursuing fields where college is a true necessity, because it means they are at universities with a lot of kids who don't want or need to be there, undercutting one of the best things about college for truly academic people -- being surrounded by like minded students and professors for four or more years.

Anonymous wrote:So it about matches inflation.

No. The college inflation rate was almost 2x the overall inflation rate. The overall was 115%. Compared to the 200% in the OP. You cannot seriously think the cost of American colleges is defensible? US policy created a knowledge economy where most jobs require a degree. Then gave govt subsidized loans to help people pay for it. Okay, fine. THEN states cut education spending especially for college during the Great Recession and most never returned those levels. So we have inelastic demand because 3 generations have been told you’ll be left behind without a degree and the colleges know public and private loans are available, so jack up tuition accordingly. Then there’s also perception. No college wants to cut tuition below its peers because people conflate cost with quality. A college doesn’t want to be perceived as the low rent version. But something will have to be done. As these inflation rates are not sustainable

The problem is the international students driving the prices up. Why are Americans having to compete with so many international students?

Anonymous wrote:Can you say.....state flagship?

The tuition+ room and board at my public college (W&M) is four times what we paid in the late 90s.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Between 1987 and 2017, the cost of attending a public four-year college rose more than 200%.

For the 2024-2025 school year, Tufts’ estimates of expenses for undergraduate programs reaches nearly $96,000, trumping Wellesley — which comes in at about $92,000.

For the year strting this fall, Yale University comes in at almost $91,000, preceding Boston University with around $90,000 for the academic year.

https://www.cnn.com/2024/03/27/business/college-tuition-new-england-ninety-thousand/index.html

That is so effed up.

This is how they are affording to give so many kids financial aid. I am not against aid don’t get me wrong - I had it in college but this is what is allowing them to do this. Parents paying full tuition are paying for financial aid. It must be why. There is no other explanation or increase except they are admitting more kids that need more aid.

Other reasons for rising costs:

- increased in non-academic amenities offered by schools, like state of the art wellness centers, improved campus housing, and nicer dining facilities
- a proliferation of majors, requiring more facilities, professors, and staff-- some brand new majors that didn't used to exist, but also greater specialization in majors that used to all be housed in one department
- inflation in administrator salaries (but notably, not in faculty salaries, as schools have actually fought faculty increases and also shifted more work to non-tenure-track teachers, include adjuncts and graduate students, who are dirt cheap)

Yes, some are f the money also pays for aid to students who cannot afford it. But this is only true at schools without large endowments.

One thing we can do to better understand college costs is look outside the US. In Germany, for instance, public colleges are all free to students, and still manage to offer a very good education. But in most cases, they do not offer a campus experience like in the US. They don't have dorms or dining halls, students generally live near school in privately procured housing. All of the school's funding goes to professors, classrooms, and administration of education. It's a more efficient model that does not romanticize "the college experience" as we do in the US.

I'm not saying we should adopt that model for all schools, but it might be worth it to think about what we spend money on in higher education and why. What is our goal? For MC, UMC, and wealthy families, often the goal an "experience" more that education or training for a profession, and the image people have for that experience seems to get more expensive every year.

All good points about increased (bloated?) administration, amenities, and parents' expectations. I'm a parent who truly wanted the "college experience" for my kids, after I spent four years of college commuting to and from my school, missing out on dorm living, participating in many events, and being lonely while all of my friends were off living at college. It was important for me to send my kids off to live at college, I look at it as such a unique time in their lives to learn, mature, and discover (while Mom and Dad were still paying the bills!).

That said it also helps Europe that the US picking up the tab for so much of Europe's national security, so they can focus their own spending on their wide social programs.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Between 1987 and 2017, the cost of attending a public four-year college rose more than 200%.

For the 2024-2025 school year, Tufts’ estimates of expenses for undergraduate programs reaches nearly $96,000, trumping Wellesley — which comes in at about $92,000.

For the year strting this fall, Yale University comes in at almost $91,000, preceding Boston University with around $90,000 for the academic year.

https://www.cnn.com/2024/03/27/business/college-tuition-new-england-ninety-thousand/index.html

That is so effed up.

This is how they are affording to give so many kids financial aid. I am not against aid don’t get me wrong - I had it in college but this is what is allowing them to do this. Parents paying full tuition are paying for financial aid. It must be why. There is no other explanation or increase except they are admitting more kids that need more aid.

Other reasons for rising costs:

- increased in non-academic amenities offered by schools, like state of the art wellness centers, improved campus housing, and nicer dining facilities
- a proliferation of majors, requiring more facilities, professors, and staff-- some brand new majors that didn't used to exist, but also greater specialization in majors that used to all be housed in one department
- inflation in administrator salaries (but notably, not in faculty salaries, as schools have actually fought faculty increases and also shifted more work to non-tenure-track teachers, include adjuncts and graduate students, who are dirt cheap)

Yes, some are f the money also pays for aid to students who cannot afford it. But this is only true at schools without large endowments.

One thing we can do to better understand college costs is look outside the US. In Germany, for instance, public colleges are all free to students, and still manage to offer a very good education. But in most cases, they do not offer a campus experience like in the US. They don't have dorms or dining halls, students generally live near school in privately procured housing. All of the school's funding goes to professors, classrooms, and administration of education. It's a more efficient model that does not romanticize "the college experience" as we do in the US.

I'm not saying we should adopt that model for all schools, but it might be worth it to think about what we spend money on in higher education and why. What is our goal? For MC, UMC, and wealthy families, often the goal an "experience" more that education or training for a profession, and the image people have for that experience seems to get more expensive every year.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:America is heading to a two tier society. Vote Biden or it gets worse

Oh give me a break. You think Trump is going to solve any problems? The dude had 99 problems and can’t solve one.

Keeping illegal immigration under control. Getting NATO countries to pay more. Not enabling Iran. Not F’ing up Afghanistan withdrawal. Keeping military morale & recruiting high. Keeping N. Korea quiet.

Anonymous wrote:America is heading to a two tier society. Vote Biden or it gets worse

It doesn’t matter who the president is.

Anonymous wrote:So it about matches inflation.

Uh, inflation over that time was not 200%.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:America is heading to a two tier society. Vote Biden or it gets worse

Oh give me a break. You think Trump is going to solve any problems? The dude had 99 problems and can’t solve one.

Where did anyone suggest Trump?

Does this statistic adjust for inflation and how much students actually pay (i.e. the real cost rather than thea made up one)?

https://www.forbes.com/sites/dereknewton/2023/11/21/the-cost-of-college-continues-to-decline/?sh=58dee86029ae

https://www.nationalaffairs.com/publications/detail/the-truth-about-college-costs?fbclid=IwAR2mIxaC83r6-wdPuy2IGaf7zmY69m12Tj6Cl0_0N5bO4HJZde6bNcbEYxk

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Between 1987 and 2017, the cost of attending a public four-year college rose more than 200%.

For the 2024-2025 school year, Tufts’ estimates of expenses for undergraduate programs reaches nearly $96,000, trumping Wellesley — which comes in at about $92,000.

For the year strting this fall, Yale University comes in at almost $91,000, preceding Boston University with around $90,000 for the academic year.

https://www.cnn.com/2024/03/27/business/college-tuition-new-england-ninety-thousand/index.html

That is so effed up.

This is how they are affording to give so many kids financial aid. I am not against aid don’t get me wrong - I had it in college but this is what is allowing them to do this. Parents paying full tuition are paying for financial aid. It must be why. There is no other explanation or increase except they are admitting more kids that need more aid.

+1
Except I am against it. It should not be on other families to provide the FA but that is how it works right now and absolutely has driven costs way up.

Anonymous wrote:Between 1987 and 2017, the cost of attending a public four-year college rose more than 200%.

For the 2024-2025 school year, Tufts’ estimates of expenses for undergraduate programs reaches nearly $96,000, trumping Wellesley — which comes in at about $92,000.

For the year strting this fall, Yale University comes in at almost $91,000, preceding Boston University with around $90,000 for the academic year.

https://www.cnn.com/2024/03/27/business/college-tuition-new-england-ninety-thousand/index.html

That is so effed up.

Crazy. There have been some pretty big jumps in tuition since 1998-1999:

Amherst 24,090 / 69,820
Boston College 21,304 / 66,410
Boston University 23,148 / 66,670
Harvard 23,618 / 54,269
MIT 24,050 / 61,990
Northeastern 18,192 / 62,000
Tufts 23,709 / 66,358
Williams 23,860 / 68,240

UMass also saw a massive jump in tuition but even that ~260% increase in in-state tuition is a good deal in comparison…

UMass Boston in-state 4,171 / 14,905
UMass Boston OOS 12,532/ 36,538

https://www.chronicle.com/article/tuition-and-fees-1999-2000-massachusetts/

Anonymous wrote:America is heading to a two tier society. Vote Biden or it gets worse

Oh give me a break. You think Trump is going to solve any problems? The dude had 99 problems and can’t solve one.

Anonymous wrote:Between 1987 and 2017, the cost of attending a public four-year college rose more than 200%.

For the 2024-2025 school year, Tufts’ estimates of expenses for undergraduate programs reaches nearly $96,000, trumping Wellesley — which comes in at about $92,000.

For the year strting this fall, Yale University comes in at almost $91,000, preceding Boston University with around $90,000 for the academic year.

https://www.cnn.com/2024/03/27/business/college-tuition-new-england-ninety-thousand/index.html

That is so effed up.

This is how they are affording to give so many kids financial aid. I am not against aid don’t get me wrong - I had it in college but this is what is allowing them to do this. Parents paying full tuition are paying for financial aid. It must be why. There is no other explanation or increase except they are admitting more kids that need more aid.