Anonymous wrote:I have given the sibling preference a lot of thought. My view is that it is necessary in situations where a school is citywide (ie SWS, CHML) in order to reduce traffic and create efficiencies. It is not fair for PK lotteries for IB neighborhood schools. Each kid who is IB should have an equal shot regardless of sibling status.

They do. IB is preference over sibling.

We have a PK4 child now (will be K in fall) an a rising PK3 child this fall. The sibling preference will help but in no way are we guaranteed a spot for our PK3 at the school. There is a chance we have two kids attending two different schools in the fall because we are OOB.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Everyone who is at those schools with sibling preference first got in without sibling preference pulling them in.

Right, but for the siblings who get in through sibling preference, they didn't get in because of their own lottery results, they got in because of a sibling's results... which isn't fair, especially if it's happening the same year and it pulls a sibling ahead of kids who have higher lottery numbers in the other grade. In addition, it is possible for a family to live IB and get the first kid in without ever doing the lottery, move OOB, and then get all of the rest of their kids into that school through the sibling preference. So I'm still not seeing anything here indicating that the sibling preference in the lottery is fair. It is convenient for those families, for sure... and in some cases possibly a logistical necessity... but not *fair* as a lottery preference.

If you're still having a hard time with this concept, think of how this would work if the DC Lottery (the one for $$) worked this way. What if whenever someone won an amount of money in the lottery, it also gave their family members holding lottery tickets an equal amount of money/ticketholder and decreased the chances that anyone else would win. Would that be *fair* because the family won with one ticket? Now, what if those extra winners used up more than half of the available lottery winnings every year?

If you're OOB, you can only get siblings in AFTER the IB siblings and the IB families.

I have given the sibling preference a lot of thought. My view is that it is necessary in situations where a school is citywide (ie SWS, CHML) in order to reduce traffic and create efficiencies. It is not fair for PK lotteries for IB neighborhood schools. Each kid who is IB should have an equal shot regardless of sibling status.

We're an only child family that also realized our neighborhood DCPS was solid and have stayed for elementary. In hindsight, I don't feel like we have compromised our child's elementary education by staying in our DCPS, but it sure felt at the time like we were getting the short end of the stick when everyone was "winning" the lottery.

Sibling preference can both be fair overall, and make the deck so stacked against only child families (and families with very large age gaps) to make it an entirely different system. There's really no other way to look at it when you realize every other family in the lottery is effectively getting two draws at the lottery each year. It only takes one year where one of the kids is in an expansion year (like at MV, LAMB, DCB, etc. over the last 5 years) to get a good enough number in an easier lottery year, then pull in the rest of their siblings.

What would be fairer would be to give families that strike out multiple years in a row (likely to be mostly only/big age gap families) a second lottery draw after a few years. That doesn't change the system or preference, but levels the playing field more. But only/big gap families are such a small minority that they'll never make a change because the system works well enough for the vast majority.

That said, having played by the rules and seeing the rules work against us for so many years has made me more willing to bend the rules going forward. If we don't get into a good feeder pattern by middle school, we'll probably just sublet for a few months in middle school then move back home. The boundary fraud militia can complain all they want, but the system is what it is and if the system never works for us, we'll take advantage of the loopholes that exist to make it work.

You can maybe make the no sibling preference argument for middle school. But for elementary it just falls apart because things like distance and transportation logistics matter. Without ability to secure a seat for a younger child, you would have a lot of families needing to pull their older child out of the school. It would hurt single parents and vehicle free families even more than others.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am not looking forward to the results. It seems like winning the lottery is almost impossible. This is a really frustrating and unfortunate. Quality schools should be a human right.

Most people eventually get into their top choice schools for elementary at least. I know the process seems impossible, but it's just the fairest way to distribute a scarce resource. Should the resource be scarce? I mean, no, but it is so this is what we get.

It DC's lottery really the fairest way to distribute a scarce resource? I don't disagree that a lottery of some form may be the fairest method, but I strongly disagree that DC's lottery, as it is currently run with sibling preferences, is actually fair at all. I know families with a bunch of kids like how it operates, but that doesn't make it fair. There is a very good chance that because of the sibling preference, my kid will not get into any of the elementary schools we would like them to attend, even if we lottery for several years. Unless we get exceptionally lucky, our plan is to move when my kid is in kindergarten to be in-bound for one of the schools we want.

Here's our lottery list:

(1) DC Bilingual
(2) Shepherd ES (OOB)
(3) Yu Ying
(4) LAMB
(5) Dorothy Height ES
(6) Breakthrough Montessori
(7) Military Rd.
(8) Whittier ES
(9) Takoma ES

We are extremely unlikely to get into #1-4 because we don't have sibling preference... #5 and below are all fairly likely through either matching or the waitlist process. If we can't get into #1-3 this year, or #1-2 (+ two schools WOTP that start with PK4) in the following two lotteries, we will move.

This is a good list. I know families at most of these and all are happy. If you get into a Whitter or a Dorothy Height, you would still want to move?

Thank you. We also know families with kids at all of these schools who are happy and we would probably be okay with Whittier or DH for all of elementary. BUT, if we end up at either of those, we would need to move before my kid is in middle school and, for a variety of life reasons unrelated to schools, if we do have to move, it makes sense to do it in the next few years... so we would be looking to move during my kid's K year.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am not looking forward to the results. It seems like winning the lottery is almost impossible. This is a really frustrating and unfortunate. Quality schools should be a human right.

Most people eventually get into their top choice schools for elementary at least. I know the process seems impossible, but it's just the fairest way to distribute a scarce resource. Should the resource be scarce? I mean, no, but it is so this is what we get.

It DC's lottery really the fairest way to distribute a scarce resource? I don't disagree that a lottery of some form may be the fairest method, but I strongly disagree that DC's lottery, as it is currently run with sibling preferences, is actually fair at all. I know families with a bunch of kids like how it operates, but that doesn't make it fair. There is a very good chance that because of the sibling preference, my kid will not get into any of the elementary schools we would like them to attend, even if we lottery for several years. Unless we get exceptionally lucky, our plan is to move when my kid is in kindergarten to be in-bound for one of the schools we want.

Here's our lottery list:

(1) DC Bilingual
(2) Shepherd ES (OOB)
(3) Yu Ying
(4) LAMB
(5) Dorothy Height ES
(6) Breakthrough Montessori
(7) Military Rd.
(8) Whittier ES
(9) Takoma ES

We are extremely unlikely to get into #1-4 because we don't have sibling preference... #5 and below are all fairly likely through either matching or the waitlist process. If we can't get into #1-3 this year, or #1-2 (+ two schools WOTP that start with PK4) in the following two lotteries, we will move.

This is a good list. I know families at most of these and all are happy. If you get into a Whitter or a Dorothy Height, you would still want to move?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Everyone who is at those schools with sibling preference first got in without sibling preference pulling them in.

Right, but for the siblings who get in through sibling preference, they didn't get in because of their own lottery results, they got in because of a sibling's results... which isn't fair, especially if it's happening the same year and it pulls a sibling ahead of kids who have higher lottery numbers in the other grade. In addition, it is possible for a family to live IB and get the first kid in without ever doing the lottery, move OOB, and then get all of the rest of their kids into that school through the sibling preference. So I'm still not seeing anything here indicating that the sibling preference in the lottery is fair. It is convenient for those families, for sure... and in some cases possibly a logistical necessity... but not *fair* as a lottery preference.

If you're still having a hard time with this concept, think of how this would work if the DC Lottery (the one for $$) worked this way. What if whenever someone won an amount of money in the lottery, it also gave their family members holding lottery tickets an equal amount of money/ticketholder and decreased the chances that anyone else would win. Would that be *fair* because the family won with one ticket? Now, what if those extra winners used up more than half of the available lottery winnings every year?

Sibling preference is a good for the whole city, because it reduces traffic. It also strengthens that family 's relationship to that school, and that makes the school community stronger.

I know the only child families feel slighted by this but it is a good policy. Sounds like you have really young kids -- Have faith in the process, keep playing, your child may end up getting lucky in year. Don't feel you need to move before K.

Yep. My kid is an only child and I think sibling preference makes a ton of sense, particularly because of the community aspect. The logistics also make sense. You can make a lot of complaints about education in DC, but this is one of the weakest.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Everyone who is at those schools with sibling preference first got in without sibling preference pulling them in.

Right, but for the siblings who get in through sibling preference, they didn't get in because of their own lottery results, they got in because of a sibling's results... which isn't fair, especially if it's happening the same year and it pulls a sibling ahead of kids who have higher lottery numbers in the other grade. In addition, it is possible for a family to live IB and get the first kid in without ever doing the lottery, move OOB, and then get all of the rest of their kids into that school through the sibling preference. So I'm still not seeing anything here indicating that the sibling preference in the lottery is fair. It is convenient for those families, for sure... and in some cases possibly a logistical necessity... but not *fair* as a lottery preference.

If you're still having a hard time with this concept, think of how this would work if the DC Lottery (the one for $$) worked this way. What if whenever someone won an amount of money in the lottery, it also gave their family members holding lottery tickets an equal amount of money/ticketholder and decreased the chances that anyone else would win. Would that be *fair* because the family won with one ticket? Now, what if those extra winners used up more than half of the available lottery winnings every year?

Sibling preference is a good for the whole city, because it reduces traffic. It also strengthens that family 's relationship to that school, and that makes the school community stronger.

I know the only child families feel slighted by this but it is a good policy. Sounds like you have really young kids -- Have faith in the process, keep playing, your child may end up getting lucky in year. Don't feel you need to move before K.

I'm not saying there aren't some benefits to it... I am saying that it isn't *fair*, which is a valid critique of the sibling preference and of the DC school lottery. Yes, there are obviously reasons for DC to have made this policy choice, but that still doesn't make it fair.

Anonymous wrote:The lottery is stressful. It makes people try to identify and fixate on the “best” options. There are actually a lot of solid DCPS options citywide. We ended up going to our run of the mill IB DCPS because shrug it was just ECE and then staying at that same school through upper elementary.

I think for some families, especially families who can rest pretty well assured that their kids will be assumed to be smart/competent based on their demographics, that is very true... but not all schools serve all kids (or kids from all demographic groups) equally well. For example, a bunch of families in my neighborhood are happy sending their [White] kids to a PCS in our neighborhood, where the most recent scores show <5% of Black kids and >80% of White kids are proficient in math... about 25% of that score gap is probably attributable to SES based on overall school demographics and the performance gap at other local schools with similar demographics. I am not confident that my Black child will be presumed to be smart/competent at a school where they clearly are not teaching Black kids math. In short, I am not looking for "best" schools... I am looking for schools with subgroup test scores that show that my child will be likely to get a decent education, and that really limits things for us.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Everyone who is at those schools with sibling preference first got in without sibling preference pulling them in.

Right, but for the siblings who get in through sibling preference, they didn't get in because of their own lottery results, they got in because of a sibling's results... which isn't fair, especially if it's happening the same year and it pulls a sibling ahead of kids who have higher lottery numbers in the other grade. In addition, it is possible for a family to live IB and get the first kid in without ever doing the lottery, move OOB, and then get all of the rest of their kids into that school through the sibling preference. So I'm still not seeing anything here indicating that the sibling preference in the lottery is fair. It is convenient for those families, for sure... and in some cases possibly a logistical necessity... but not *fair* as a lottery preference.

If you're still having a hard time with this concept, think of how this would work if the DC Lottery (the one for $$) worked this way. What if whenever someone won an amount of money in the lottery, it also gave their family members holding lottery tickets an equal amount of money/ticketholder and decreased the chances that anyone else would win. Would that be *fair* because the family won with one ticket? Now, what if those extra winners used up more than half of the available lottery winnings every year?

Sibling preference is a good for the whole city, because it reduces traffic. It also strengthens that family 's relationship to that school, and that makes the school community stronger.

I know the only child families feel slighted by this but it is a good policy. Sounds like you have really young kids -- Have faith in the process, keep playing, your child may end up getting lucky in year. Don't feel you need to move before K.

Anonymous wrote:Everyone who is at those schools with sibling preference first got in without sibling preference pulling them in.

Right, but for the siblings who get in through sibling preference, they didn't get in because of their own lottery results, they got in because of a sibling's results... which isn't fair, especially if it's happening the same year and it pulls a sibling ahead of kids who have higher lottery numbers in the other grade. In addition, it is possible for a family to live IB and get the first kid in without ever doing the lottery, move OOB, and then get all of the rest of their kids into that school through the sibling preference. So I'm still not seeing anything here indicating that the sibling preference in the lottery is fair. It is convenient for those families, for sure... and in some cases possibly a logistical necessity... but not *fair* as a lottery preference.

If you're still having a hard time with this concept, think of how this would work if the DC Lottery (the one for $$) worked this way. What if whenever someone won an amount of money in the lottery, it also gave their family members holding lottery tickets an equal amount of money/ticketholder and decreased the chances that anyone else would win. Would that be *fair* because the family won with one ticket? Now, what if those extra winners used up more than half of the available lottery winnings every year?

The lottery is stressful. It makes people try to identify and fixate on the “best” options. There are actually a lot of solid DCPS options citywide. We ended up going to our run of the mill IB DCPS because shrug it was just ECE and then staying at that same school through upper elementary.

Everyone who is at those schools with sibling preference first got in without sibling preference pulling them in.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am not looking forward to the results. It seems like winning the lottery is almost impossible. This is a really frustrating and unfortunate. Quality schools should be a human right.

Most people eventually get into their top choice schools for elementary at least. I know the process seems impossible, but it's just the fairest way to distribute a scarce resource. Should the resource be scarce? I mean, no, but it is so this is what we get.

It DC's lottery really the fairest way to distribute a scarce resource? I don't disagree that a lottery of some form may be the fairest method, but I strongly disagree that DC's lottery, as it is currently run with sibling preferences, is actually fair at all. I know families with a bunch of kids like how it operates, but that doesn't make it fair. There is a very good chance that because of the sibling preference, my kid will not get into any of the elementary schools we would like them to attend, even if we lottery for several years. Unless we get exceptionally lucky, our plan is to move when my kid is in kindergarten to be in-bound for one of the schools we want.

Here's our lottery list:

(1) DC Bilingual
(2) Shepherd ES (OOB)
(3) Yu Ying
(4) LAMB
(5) Dorothy Height ES
(6) Breakthrough Montessori
(7) Military Rd.
(8) Whittier ES
(9) Takoma ES

We are extremely unlikely to get into #1-4 because we don't have sibling preference... #5 and below are all fairly likely through either matching or the waitlist process. If we can't get into #1-3 this year, or #1-2 (+ two schools WOTP that start with PK4) in the following two lotteries, we will move.