Anonymous wrote:Our college counselor told my DC to submit their test score everywhere, even when the score was at or right below the 25%. They believed TO is not test optional if you are a high achieving kid in DC. Score was a 1470.

Your college counselor gave some bad advice. A score at or below 25th percentile isn't going to help. Only hurt. The low scores drag down the school average.

Worst thing that could happen with TO is an AO might guess the applicant is in the bottom fourth. Why would you want to confirm?

Even though several schools have changed their policy about test optional (which I 100% understand), I hope that they don't penalize the kids that applied this TO this year (when they believed that it was still ok).

Anonymous wrote:We were just at Swarthmore and they flat out said don’t submit unless in their printed 25-75% range. To a room of white prep school kids on spring break.

That’s different that what they told the tour group I attended last spring in which most of us were URM. They told us that it doesn’t matter if we applied TO or not.

I guess they are charging their view on this.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We were just at Swarthmore and they flat out said don’t submit unless in their printed 25-75% range. To a room of white prep school kids on spring break.

A nice way of saying don't bother to apply unless you are in the 25-75% range.

Wish more schools would speak as plainly. All this guessing and gaming the admissions people have created belies their supposed concern for kids’ emotional and mental well-being. Such bs.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We were just at Swarthmore and they flat out said don’t submit unless in their printed 25-75% range. To a room of white prep school kids on spring break.

A nice way of saying don't bother to apply unless you are in the 25-75% range.

Did you see the % of admitted first year students were TO?

Generally less than 50%

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We were just at Swarthmore and they flat out said don’t submit unless in their printed 25-75% range. To a room of white prep school kids on spring break.

A nice way of saying don't bother to apply unless you are in the 25-75% range.

Did you see the % of admitted first year students were TO?

Anonymous wrote:We are down to the final 2 decisions (both are reach schools). So far, my daughter has been admitted to all of her targets, safeties and low reach. For all of these schools (where she received a decision), she submitted her test scores. However, I just learned that my daughter went test optional for the two remaining schools. Her scores are 10 points lower than the 25% score (per CDS). I know that the traditional wisdom is to not submit scores if you are below either the mid 50% range (or in some cases the average). However, I wonder if it is wise to not submit scores when you score is super close to that mid 50% range? I read somewhere that schools will immediately assume that your score is 200 points lower than it actually is if you go test optional. So if the school has a md 50% range of 1490-1540 and your child's score is 1480, I would still think that you would want to submit your score. I'm just not a fan of test optional and I wish my daughter would have discussed it with me. Anyone have any thoughts?

I don't think anyone knows. But here's something you can try.. if you are happy with one of the schools DD is already in at, pick one of the reach schools and send them a note with the test scores and see if that makes a difference. I know what they say, no more new information, etc. but what's the harm in sending in additional info. now. If she gets in, great. If not, oh well, she has other options she likes anyways.

Anonymous wrote:We were just at Swarthmore and they flat out said don’t submit unless in their printed 25-75% range. To a room of white prep school kids on spring break.

A nice way of saying don't bother to apply unless you are in the 25-75% range.

Many kids didn’t even take a test in this past round, intending to rely on broad TO policies and focus their time on other things. So schools may rightfully infer such students had no score to submit.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Rice AO went on record to say they will not infer a low test score if applying TO and coming from a private high school. They just ignore that data point.

WashU said they don’t assume a low score were one is not submitted.

And yet when you look at admissions stats of comparable schools, the kids who do get in overwhelmingly submit scores. There is a human factor, no doubt. And it’s on you if you don’t consider the ulterior motives of AOs for getting as many kids to apply as possible, ie, allowing kids to believe that TO is truly TO. That is the case at a handful of selective schools, but not many.

Honestly it matters more what school and major.

Our CCO said TO is def ok and not penalized for humanities studies with strong writing based ECs and LOR. Obv depends on schools applying to…

Anonymous wrote:We were just at Swarthmore and they flat out said don’t submit unless in their printed 25-75% range. To a room of white prep school kids on spring break.

Same at Amherst

We were just at Swarthmore and they flat out said don’t submit unless in their printed 25-75% range. To a room of white prep school kids on spring break.

I think submitting might have been slightly better. But, let's look at this rationally.

If your child had submitted, the test results likely would have been a neutral/as expected. Because they weren't high enough to be a plus.

Then, your child would be compared against similar candidates...DMV suburban candidates/same high school/etc. If GPA was competitive, they probably wouldn't assume the SAT was insanely out of range.

Then the AOs would have been looking for differentiation elsewhere in the application. Either strong, believable interest in the program, a particular major, interesting recs, fantastic essays, etc. That's what would drive the final decision.

The whole college application picture has been muddled by TO and yet some schools firmly believe in it because it gives them discretion to go beyond cookie cutter candidates and slickly packaged rich kids without hurting stats. I think the AOs are well aware that ordinary people don't know what the best decision to make is re: TO. As we can see from the recent release of the Dartmouth info, the schools are still learning about the impact of TO and when using it works best. So your daughter made her decision months ago when all parties had less info on which to make a decision about the meaning of going TO.

I think this didn't matter much in your daughter's case. Unless someone unhooked and similar with lower test scores gets in from her same high school, I wouldn't give it any more thought. And if that does happen, the true reasons (essays, recs, major) are still unknowable so best to let it go now.

Anonymous wrote:Rice AO went on record to say they will not infer a low test score if applying TO and coming from a private high school. They just ignore that data point.

WashU said they don’t assume a low score were one is not submitted.

And yet when you look at admissions stats of comparable schools, the kids who do get in overwhelmingly submit scores. There is a human factor, no doubt. And it’s on you if you don’t consider the ulterior motives of AOs for getting as many kids to apply as possible, ie, allowing kids to believe that TO is truly TO. That is the case at a handful of selective schools, but not many.

Anonymous wrote:Agreed with the thought that there is no point in dwelling on it now but understand the curiosity to play what if.

I'd have submitted 1480 at every school, even if it's under 25%. The select colleges where 1480 is under 25% are going to be hard admits no matter what. 1480 is a heck of a good score and I don't see it being the final elimination point.

Exactly - and I read that even when schools say that they will not infer a lower scores from test optional applicants, I think the human nature is to in fact do so.