Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. Really ppreciate all the perspectives. As for private lessons, do most clubs offer them in house or do we need to seek outside assistance?

Most clubs offer them in house. I think that RMSC and AAC are prohibited from private lessons because of the county employee thing. I know for sure Arlington does not allow it.

RMSC is a private organization, and yes, some coaches do lessons.

Anonymous wrote:OP here. We are at Machine. I'm not a swimmer so only know the basics. It is something like palm facing up for breaststroke.

Machine only cares about the fast swimmers…the ones making JO cuts. Find a team that’s a better fit. We did, and DS has improved considerably and is happier.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. Really ppreciate all the perspectives. As for private lessons, do most clubs offer them in house or do we need to seek outside assistance?

Most clubs offer them in house. I think that RMSC and AAC are prohibited from private lessons because of the county employee thing. I know for sure Arlington does not allow it.

?? I'm pretty sure the RMSC MLK (at least minis) coaches offered private lessons "on the side", on the books through the front desk.

Anonymous wrote:OP here. Really ppreciate all the perspectives. As for private lessons, do most clubs offer them in house or do we need to seek outside assistance?

Ask other swim parents at the club. Some clubs offer lessons and some do not. Some clubs discourage or even explicitly prohibit outside lessons, so you have to feel it out. Our last club did offer private lessons, but it was impossible to sign up for them, due to scarcity of pool time and the coaches offered slots to their preferred swimmers (this was in ny). At our current club, they are easy to sign up for and the club is fine with outside lessons.

Anonymous wrote:OP here. Really ppreciate all the perspectives. As for private lessons, do most clubs offer them in house or do we need to seek outside assistance?

Most clubs offer them in house. I think that RMSC and AAC are prohibited from private lessons because of the county employee thing. I know for sure Arlington does not allow it.

OP here. Really ppreciate all the perspectives. As for private lessons, do most clubs offer them in house or do we need to seek outside assistance?

PP here. The reason I said to go watch practice a few times is to see if your kid is even remotely paying attention, doing drills or just goofing off. About 90% of kids in the 9-10 group are just goofing off, sitting on wall, in the bathroom, pulling on lane lines - and not doing drills. That would explain some of the lack of improvement. Then you could talk to the coach once you understand what is going on. You could always just reach out to see how they are doing without watching practice, but I think that is harder.

Anonymous wrote:Most coaches actually give feedback during practice. Just because your kids stroke isn’t perfect doesn’t mean the coach isnt teaching technique. Most of your kids in the 9-12 year old range are space cadets. Not meant to offend, most 9-12 year olds are space cadets, I was one too at that age. So calm down, trust your coach, ignore the people who say to go sit and watch practices. Do you think your kid is going to enjoy their parent there all the time? Let them enjoy it

This is so true. If your kid is having fun, enjoying practice and likes the kids/coach at 9 that is really all that matters. My college swimmer was not in the "fast" or serious group when they were 9-12 and the coaches do try to instruct, but it seemed a bit chaotic, the kids are pretty silly at that age. I think my swimmer go most of their feedback at meets. I know a lot of people on this board say to go to private lessons, but we never did them and I am not really sure that they are needed.

Most coaches actually give feedback during practice. Just because your kids stroke isn’t perfect doesn’t mean the coach isnt teaching technique. Most of your kids in the 9-12 year old range are space cadets. Not meant to offend, most 9-12 year olds are space cadets, I was one too at that age. So calm down, trust your coach, ignore the people who say to go sit and watch practices. Do you think your kid is going to enjoy their parent there all the time? Let them enjoy it

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My thinking as a former swimmer and parent of a 9 year old: at most of these clubs there are too many kids in the lane for coaches to be giving a ton of individual feedback. If you're lucky the coaches will have a good progression of drills that the kids work on and they will give your kid some individual tips from time to time. This age should still be very heavily skewed toward stroke drills and practicing turns, with just a little bit of endurance work so they can swim a 100 at a meet without struggling too hard.

Another thing to consider is that there is a lot of variability in the extent to which kids will receive feedback and want to or be able to implement it. I was the kind of kid who was super conscientious and tried really hard to do drills exactly the right way. I am the same way now at the gym. I want to do the exercise exactly the way the instructor shows it and I take pride in getting complimented for good form.

My 9 year old did not seem to inherit that tendency. He will sort of try to do a drill the right way but ultimately doesn't care too much if he isn't quite doing it correctly. I don't see him becoming any kind of elite or even fast swimmer because he just doesn't approach it with the intent to master what is being taught, and he isn't naturally talented enough to just do it right the first time. I think you either need one or the other in swimming and any other technical sport.

I replied in a different thread about swim team expectations with many of the same thoughts. Almost every parent has the same reaction after their kid joins a swim team - why aren't the coaches correcting technique? And the answer usually is, they are being taught correct technique through words, demos, and drills, but if the swimmer doesn’t apply the correction, and, more importantly, practice the corrected form, they won’t progress. I see kids still swimming after many years without a good streamline, and I know for sure that the coaches have spent a lot of time emphasizing it ad nauseum. The kids might do it correctly in a drill, but they go back to their comfort zone in practice. They also do things like skip laps, pull on the lane line, go to the bathroom, etc. There are a lot of ways for kids to avoid working hard in swim practice, just like there are a lot of ways for kids to avoid learning at school.

“Hard work beats talent when talent doesn’t work” is a favorite swim coach mantra. The kids who go to practice and just go through the motions are not going to achieve as much through osmosis as the ones who are motivated to learn and improve. This is also a reason to put your kids in meets - it motivates them to work harder in practice so they can feel good about themselves in races.

+1. A lot of parents complain that their kid isn’t being taught technique because from their perch in the viewing deck, they don’t see a coach interacting 1:1 with their kid all the time. That’s just not how group practices work.

These are also the kids who practice once or twice a week and there are some kids who never go to meets. There is a difference between elite swimmers and club swimmers. Not all club swimmers are elite and the coaches know it.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My thinking as a former swimmer and parent of a 9 year old: at most of these clubs there are too many kids in the lane for coaches to be giving a ton of individual feedback. If you're lucky the coaches will have a good progression of drills that the kids work on and they will give your kid some individual tips from time to time. This age should still be very heavily skewed toward stroke drills and practicing turns, with just a little bit of endurance work so they can swim a 100 at a meet without struggling too hard.

Another thing to consider is that there is a lot of variability in the extent to which kids will receive feedback and want to or be able to implement it. I was the kind of kid who was super conscientious and tried really hard to do drills exactly the right way. I am the same way now at the gym. I want to do the exercise exactly the way the instructor shows it and I take pride in getting complimented for good form.

My 9 year old did not seem to inherit that tendency. He will sort of try to do a drill the right way but ultimately doesn't care too much if he isn't quite doing it correctly. I don't see him becoming any kind of elite or even fast swimmer because he just doesn't approach it with the intent to master what is being taught, and he isn't naturally talented enough to just do it right the first time. I think you either need one or the other in swimming and any other technical sport.

I replied in a different thread about swim team expectations with many of the same thoughts. Almost every parent has the same reaction after their kid joins a swim team - why aren't the coaches correcting technique? And the answer usually is, they are being taught correct technique through words, demos, and drills, but if the swimmer doesn’t apply the correction, and, more importantly, practice the corrected form, they won’t progress. I see kids still swimming after many years without a good streamline, and I know for sure that the coaches have spent a lot of time emphasizing it ad nauseum. The kids might do it correctly in a drill, but they go back to their comfort zone in practice. They also do things like skip laps, pull on the lane line, go to the bathroom, etc. There are a lot of ways for kids to avoid working hard in swim practice, just like there are a lot of ways for kids to avoid learning at school.

“Hard work beats talent when talent doesn’t work” is a favorite swim coach mantra. The kids who go to practice and just go through the motions are not going to achieve as much through osmosis as the ones who are motivated to learn and improve. This is also a reason to put your kids in meets - it motivates them to work harder in practice so they can feel good about themselves in races.

+1. A lot of parents complain that their kid isn’t being taught technique because from their perch in the viewing deck, they don’t see a coach interacting 1:1 with their kid all the time. That’s just not how group practices work.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Most clubs don't teach stroke. It's really frustrating.

Unfortunately, this is true if most clubs and the thing most parents don’t understand. Whether club swimming or summer swim team, most coaches do not correct strokes. You really need to do some private lessons and get one on one time. All the kids do during practice is swim back and forth in their lane. They are learning endurance.

Only the top swimmers will get more personal attention.

Or you need to have a kid who is the type who really pays attention to what the coaches are saying and demonstrating, really thinks about what they are doing during practice, AND has good body awareness. I'm the former swimmer PP. My parents never paid for a single private lesson. I remember my first club swim experience at age 9 was a total zoo. The coaches were nice, but there were a ton of kids in the lane. My parents weren't watching practice or doing research on the best club in the area. I just had a strong internal desire to improve and a good natural feel for the water.

I see kids like this at my 9 year old's practice. They have the natural feel and are clearly invested in doing things the right way because they really want to drop time. My own child is like this with a different sport, where the coaches comment on how hard they work. They will probably drop swim at some point but I figure there are benefits to it for however long they want to participate, regardless of whether they are on a path to be really good.

I think parents need to be realistic about their kids' potential. Not every kid can become an elite young swimmer if only they are at the right club. Most swimmers can improve if they work at it. But there needs to be a certain level of natural ability combined with the desire to consistently apply what has been taught, even when no one is reminding you about it. I don't think the coaching matters nearly as much at the younger ages as it does when kids get into the more intense training groups. Outcomes are largely dependent on factors specific to the kid. Those factors can change as kids get older, for better or worse. But kids who are going to be really fast at ages 8-12 will probably be fast no matter who coaches them, and kids who aren't as fast are not going to magically become fast because of coaching. But if they keep plugging away they may get faster later due to puberty etc.

Anonymous wrote:Most clubs don't teach stroke. It's really frustrating.

Unfortunately, this is true if most clubs and the thing most parents don’t understand. Whether club swimming or summer swim team, most coaches do not correct strokes. You really need to do some private lessons and get one on one time. All the kids do during practice is swim back and forth in their lane. They are learning endurance.

Only the top swimmers will get more personal attention.

Anonymous wrote:If you are a top swimmer, they will care a lot. If you are an ok swimmer, you are occupying a spot in a lane so that the club can afford to rent the pool and pay the coaches to coach the better swimmers

This is not necessarily true of all clubs. I have a 15 year old who had BB times or slower until 14 and now has sectional times. And I have a 12 year old who has had AAA times since he was 9. Both got the same amount of attention and feedback at our club.

To add on to what many other PPs have said, you have to remember that a most 9 year old’s brains are typically unable to focus on more than 1-2 things at a time and given almost all 9 year olds have more than 1 thing wrong with each stroke coaches then have to choose what is the most important thing to focus on first because if they try to do everything at once it will just go over that kids head and nothing will get better.

With that, as it relates to what is happening with your child, and just breastroke in general, the way your child’s arms are going forward has a very minimal impact especially compared to something the kick. For example if tour swimmers has an extremely wide kick where their knees also come forward to where they have zero propulsion from the kick so then a coach would likely ignore the arms and solely focus on the kick as if you don’t fix that at a young age it’s guaranteed they will never be able to do a good efficient fast breaststroke even though the arms are “clearly not right”.