Wise words…thank you. Now if I can just get DH to talk rather than stonewall! I suppose at least it means he still values our relationship, that he’s playing it down and trying to keep it under wraps. But it just feels like there a third person around, sharing pizza night, and I’d like to understand why he seems to need that. Maybe I need to be more present, more attentive, giving etc.

No. I know you wish this were the case. I wish it for you. In all likelihood, this isn't happening because you're lacking in any way. Please remember that no matter what happens.

Unfortunately to add, your H is stonewalling to protect the life he has. It's not that he doesn't want you. He wants you, and whatever this other "thing" is. Ask yourself if you're Ok with that. I wasn't.

Anonymous wrote:Not in our particular situation. He would never complain about me to her and he is far, far more emotionally close to me than he is with her. It's clear that my husband would rather spend time with me than with anybody else. DH and I are each others' best friend.

I think what matters more than the nature of the relationship with a friend is the relationship between spouses. Of course many spouses are blindsighted when it comes to learning of an affair and there are no guarantees. But I think that when someone is uncomfortable with the level of interaction that their spouse is having with someone else, it goes hand in hand with feeling like their own needs in the relationship aren't being met.

Spot on.

Not in our particular situation. He would never complain about me to her and he is far, far more emotionally close to me than he is with her. It's clear that my husband would rather spend time with me than with anybody else. DH and I are each others' best friend.

I think what matters more than the nature of the relationship with a friend is the relationship between spouses. Of course many spouses are blindsighted when it comes to learning of an affair and there are no guarantees. But I think that when someone is uncomfortable with the level of interaction that their spouse is having with someone else, it goes hand in hand with feeling like their own needs in the relationship aren't being met.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:PP from above, to be clear, "explore" means you're going to have to figure it out on your own. People going down this path outside their marriage are in deep denial about what they're doing. Sorry if I'm sounding unkind to your H, I've just seen this many times. He will not be a reliable narrator, based on your description of your concerns as "hitting a stone wall". Does furtive evidence gathering sound unpleasant? Yes, and it is. But it will answer your questions. There's too many red flags in what you're describing to ignore (imo).

How on earth though? We’ve never shared phone passwords, phone is with him all the time anyway (suppose that’s another red flag!). We’re not in the lipstick on the collar territory, or at least not yet argh.

So that would be my first question. Why not share passcodes? Why the phone guarding? I'm aware he'll find a reason to protect his preferences. But because I believe in giving people the benefit of the doubt, give him a chance. And you can be honest. "You seem pretty private with your phone. You've reassured me that we are solid. I'm glad for that. It would also help me feel reassured if we had more transparency with passwords, and if we were more open about our phones." The thing is, this is difficult to argue opposition to if you're not hiding something. Yes people will chime in with "this sounds so Mike Pence, my spouse and I trust each other, etc.". Great. It's like this for some people. You don't feel that way. And your happiness and sense of peace matters. If you have a history of insecurity and undue scrutiny, that's different. But it doesn't sound like that's your pattern.

If this isn't effective, and you still feel unsettled, well, then you have to dig. Figure out if you're location sharing, change up your own schedule so you're not as predictable, etc. And ultimately? You'll need to look in his phone. Sorry to everyone who calls this a privacy invasion. I was reassured for a year and had to confirm the truth on my own. I would have never gotten the info any other way.

Best case scenario: you find nothing, it opens up the conversation about where you're at in the marriage (after 20 years it's reasonable), and you wind up in a better spot.

Anonymous wrote:If its about work related stuff or people, its fine. Texting about Oscars and other random stuff to a married colleague after work hours is inappropriate professional behavior.

Why?

Anonymous wrote:…also married…and a work colleague…with whom he spends a fair amount of time texting out of work hours (reportedly not romantic, think re Oscars, or daily life, exchanging jokes etc)…

Would you worry?

Worry about what?

My DH has that and i don't worry. But hes not trying to be discreet. Ive met her and her family snd children. Ive walked into his office when they facetime (they are on conference panels together) and she waves hi and its not awkward. We also know each others phone passwords altho i never snooped or had reason to.

You know he's cheating.
Your job here isn't to get him to have a heart to heart with you

Get all your ducks in a row.

Then you catch him. You don't catch him by asking about the woman or asking to see texts.


Be yourself.
Get your finances together. Start a separate savings.see a lawyer so you know your options just in case you decide to leave.

Then look at his phone have the texts sent to his email so you can save it and print out.

My husband isn’t much of a texter but it wouldn’t bother me if it was just random stuff that friends share. I have his passcode and he has mine but I’ve never looked at his texts or emails. He’s too smart to do something stupid. After many years of marriage I’ve never been given a reason to think he’s wandered.

Anonymous wrote:PP from above, to be clear, "explore" means you're going to have to figure it out on your own. People going down this path outside their marriage are in deep denial about what they're doing. Sorry if I'm sounding unkind to your H, I've just seen this many times. He will not be a reliable narrator, based on your description of your concerns as "hitting a stone wall". Does furtive evidence gathering sound unpleasant? Yes, and it is. But it will answer your questions. There's too many red flags in what you're describing to ignore (imo).

How on earth though? We’ve never shared phone passwords, phone is with him all the time anyway (suppose that’s another red flag!). We’re not in the lipstick on the collar territory, or at least not yet argh.

Anonymous wrote:

Thanks to all for responses, really helps with perspective! I think trust has somehow become an issue for me - never has been in the past, but then I’ve never felt like he was distracted/absent in the past, the way he seems to be now. If it were multiple female friends that would feel different, more casual I think. But I brought DH coffee in bed this morning (per usual) and I could swear there was a furtive putting down of the phone and an unusually warm good morning, as if to compensate. I have nothing concrete, no great increase in late night working or anything like that. OTOH there’s also some weird stuff going on with his phone GPS - says he’s at home when I know he’s at work, or vice versa. Never puts him in any other place than home or work, no in transit or running errands. Feel paranoid and hate it.

Pay attention OP. This is your lizard brain picking up on something. I tell my DD; never ignore your instincts. It doesn't mean you're exactly right about what's nagging you, but it does mean there's something there. The "there" there is what you'll need to learn.

I don't think women (or people in general) are served by dismissing their concerns on these issues. And I don't think it's paranoia. Marriages go through lots of ups and downs, and truly (never thought I'd feel this way but I do), I don't believe infidelity is always a dealbreaker. But physical affairs start somewhere, usually with an EA, and if you need to head something off at the pass, well, that may be where you're at. Bottom line, it really sucks when people we love let us down, but it happens, and people come back from it. Don't be afraid to explore what's going on with your H. Denial is a lot worse.

Wise words…thank you. Now if I can just get DH to talk rather than stonewall! I suppose at least it means he still values our relationship, that he’s playing it down and trying to keep it under wraps. But it just feels like there a third person around, sharing pizza night, and I’d like to understand why he seems to need that. Maybe I need to be more present, more attentive, giving etc.

The texting itself doesn’t bother me but you mentioned that he has become ‘more discreet’ since you have spoken with him. This is disrespectful and I would question his motives.

PP from above, to be clear, "explore" means you're going to have to figure it out on your own. People going down this path outside their marriage are in deep denial about what they're doing. Sorry if I'm sounding unkind to your H, I've just seen this many times. He will not be a reliable narrator, based on your description of your concerns as "hitting a stone wall". Does furtive evidence gathering sound unpleasant? Yes, and it is. But it will answer your questions. There's too many red flags in what you're describing to ignore (imo).

Thanks to all for responses, really helps with perspective! I think trust has somehow become an issue for me - never has been in the past, but then I’ve never felt like he was distracted/absent in the past, the way he seems to be now. If it were multiple female friends that would feel different, more casual I think. But I brought DH coffee in bed this morning (per usual) and I could swear there was a furtive putting down of the phone and an unusually warm good morning, as if to compensate. I have nothing concrete, no great increase in late night working or anything like that. OTOH there’s also some weird stuff going on with his phone GPS - says he’s at home when I know he’s at work, or vice versa. Never puts him in any other place than home or work, no in transit or running errands. Feel paranoid and hate it.

Pay attention OP. This is your lizard brain picking up on something. I tell my DD; never ignore your instincts. It doesn't mean you're exactly right about what's nagging you, but it does mean there's something there. The "there" there is what you'll need to learn.

I don't think women (or people in general) are served by dismissing their concerns on these issues. And I don't think it's paranoia. Marriages go through lots of ups and downs, and truly (never thought I'd feel this way but I do), I don't believe infidelity is always a dealbreaker. But physical affairs start somewhere, usually with an EA, and if you need to head something off at the pass, well, that may be where you're at. Bottom line, it really sucks when people we love let us down, but it happens, and people come back from it. Don't be afraid to explore what's going on with your H. Denial is a lot worse.

Anonymous wrote:I'm a man, and my text history is basically all to female friends: coworkers, parent friends, a couple women who also volunteer with our kid's activity. It's all friendly but none of it is flirty; hell, recently I was texting with some women about how much we love our spouses. I don't care about who my wife texts and she doesn't care about who I text, because we trust each other.

Thanks to all for responses, really helps with perspective! I think trust has somehow become an issue for me - never has been in the past, but then I’ve never felt like he was distracted/absent in the past, the way he seems to be now. If it were multiple female friends that would feel different, more casual I think. But I brought DH coffee in bed this morning (per usual) and I could swear there was a furtive putting down of the phone and an unusually warm good morning, as if to compensate. I have nothing concrete, no great increase in late night working or anything like that. OTOH there’s also some weird stuff going on with his phone GPS - says he’s at home when I know he’s at work, or vice versa. Never puts him in any other place than home or work, no in transit or running errands. Feel paranoid and hate it.