Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Instead of what he doesn’t want to do (college) focus on what he DOES want to do. What’s his plan? How does he want to spend his time, be productive and start supporting himself of heading in that direction? Vocational training, apprenticeship, something else?

This. College isn't for everyone, but everyone needs a plan for what to do after high school. That could be further education (college, vocational, apprenticeship), joining the military, starting a business, or something else. Work with your child to make this plan, whatever it is, and figure out how to follow through on it.

This includes, of course, becoming financially self-sufficient and moving out of the parents' house. It is worth supporting your child while he is working towards this goal, but only as long as he continues to make progress. You are supporting the goal of becoming self-sufficient, not the goal of sitting at home all day being lazy.

Exactly this. Our 16 yo might not go to college and if he does, might not go right away. He has very good grades so that’s not an issue. He is already thinking about different plans and is motivated. We support him as long as there is some type of plan.

What a way to squander good grades.

We disagree. He didn’t get good grades only because of the rat race to go to the best college. Our kid is smart and a hard worker. We know that. He will find his own path and it likely won’t be the traditional 4 year college right out of HS.

Show him the chart of lifetime earnings of college degree vs not. It’s pretty eye opening.

Op, you should proceed as if he's going. Don't entertain his negative attitude. If he doesn't end up going, that's his choice, but you need to be perfectly prepared for him to go. And encourage it.

In our family, be anything you want.
After getting that college degree.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Instead of what he doesn’t want to do (college) focus on what he DOES want to do. What’s his plan? How does he want to spend his time, be productive and start supporting himself of heading in that direction? Vocational training, apprenticeship, something else?

This. College isn't for everyone, but everyone needs a plan for what to do after high school. That could be further education (college, vocational, apprenticeship), joining the military, starting a business, or something else. Work with your child to make this plan, whatever it is, and figure out how to follow through on it.

This includes, of course, becoming financially self-sufficient and moving out of the parents' house. It is worth supporting your child while he is working towards this goal, but only as long as he continues to make progress. You are supporting the goal of becoming self-sufficient, not the goal of sitting at home all day being lazy.

Exactly this. Our 16 yo might not go to college and if he does, might not go right away. He has very good grades so that’s not an issue. He is already thinking about different plans and is motivated. We support him as long as there is some type of plan.

What a way to squander good grades.

Anonymous wrote:It isn't an option in our home. Wasn't an option for me growing up.

Tell them college or a job and they need to pay rent, health insurance and support themselves.

Wasn't an option in my home either, and I spent 4 getting drunk and wasting my parents money.

I would have been better served to spend the first two years either in the service, or working, or doing charitable work and starting college at 20 instead of 18

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would be very upset, but it's true that college isn't for everyone.

Having stated that, you should show your kid the income trajectory for those with degree and those without.

WSJ just ran a big article on the number of underemployed college graduates. For most of those kids, college was a negative investment.

The income trajectories are heavily influenced by outcomes in STEM, finance, etc. If you look at the trajectories outside of many quantitative majors, again, it won't produce the results you want to see.

This isn't to say you don't need skills, however, go out to SFO and there are thousands of people working in tech without college degrees...but they are skilled.

Advancement in the workplace usually requires a degree.

Yes, an electrician can make more than English major, so what you major in also matters.

The electrician can then own their own business and eventually make more than a programmer at a midsize company.

However, statistically, most electricians don't go on to own their own business.

You have to get out of this binary thinking. Read the article and then form your opinions...but you can't just respond 1/2-cocked with nothing but...well nothing.

BTW, there are plenty of programmers without college degrees.

The problem is that most white collar jobs require a degree. Until that changes, a non college grad is relegated to blue collar work. If that's what they want, then that's fine, but it does limit their income trajectory.

Also, I'm well aware that some software programmers don't have degrees, but they are not the norm.

-former FAANG employee

Which FAANG...you know that Google hires lots of people without college degrees. Facebook was started by a college dropout and hires people without college degrees.

I get it is not the norm...but these companies care about your skills, not a degree.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would be very upset, but it's true that college isn't for everyone.

Having stated that, you should show your kid the income trajectory for those with degree and those without.

WSJ just ran a big article on the number of underemployed college graduates. For most of those kids, college was a negative investment.

The income trajectories are heavily influenced by outcomes in STEM, finance, etc. If you look at the trajectories outside of many quantitative majors, again, it won't produce the results you want to see.

This isn't to say you don't need skills, however, go out to SFO and there are thousands of people working in tech without college degrees...but they are skilled.

Advancement in the workplace usually requires a degree.

Yes, an electrician can make more than English major, so what you major in also matters.

The electrician can then own their own business and eventually make more than a programmer at a midsize company.

However, statistically, most electricians don't go on to own their own business.

You have to get out of this binary thinking. Read the article and then form your opinions...but you can't just respond 1/2-cocked with nothing but...well nothing.

BTW, there are plenty of programmers without college degrees.

The problem is that most white collar jobs require a degree. Until that changes, a non college grad is relegated to blue collar work. If that's what they want, then that's fine, but it does limit their income trajectory.

Also, I'm well aware that some software programmers don't have degrees, but they are not the norm.

-former FAANG employee

The 4 year degree is not the problem, people.

It's the intelligence, work ethic, mental health and executive function of the young adult that will determine their outcome in life.

A college education doesn't give you any of that, but it does open doors to certain jobs where a degree is required.

The young adults who fail out of high school, or college, or flunk out of trades, have issues.

Parents need to be vigilant from when their kids are young, regarding mental health: ADHD, hyperactive or inattentive, autism spectrum disorders, depression, anxiety, dyslexia, etc...
You cannot increase IQ, but you can increase executive function, you can treat anxiety and depression, you can medicate ADHD, you can train high-functioning autistic kids to make eye contact and memorize social mores.

It's not in high school that suddenly you wake up and wonder what could have been done.

I'm not talking about the smart, driven kids who plan their post-high school life without college in mind: the successful violinists, the successful ballerinas, the successful mechanics, etc... Those will succeed.

I'm talking about the aimless young adults. Something should have been done sooner. Surely the signs were there...

And of course, if you the parent has gotten all the diagnoses, all the treatments, all the therapies, and done your very best all your child's life... rarely that happens too, and I'm sorry. You have nothing to reproach yourself with.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:That's fine. They can start working right after paying graduation and start to pay rent and all their bills 4 years sooner than otherwise.

I hope you don't have kids.

My youngest is not going. He's doing an apprenticeship program for plumbing. I already knew he wasn't going to college before he ever said it. It's really true, college isn't for everyone.

A lot of very narrow minds here that think there’s only one path to adulthood. When he becomes a master plumber he’ll be all set. Work for yourself instead of being tied to a bureaucracy sounds sweet.

Thank you. I don't feel one ounce of disappointment about this.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would be very upset, but it's true that college isn't for everyone.

Having stated that, you should show your kid the income trajectory for those with degree and those without.

WSJ just ran a big article on the number of underemployed college graduates. For most of those kids, college was a negative investment.

The income trajectories are heavily influenced by outcomes in STEM, finance, etc. If you look at the trajectories outside of many quantitative majors, again, it won't produce the results you want to see.

This isn't to say you don't need skills, however, go out to SFO and there are thousands of people working in tech without college degrees...but they are skilled.

Advancement in the workplace usually requires a degree.

Yes, an electrician can make more than English major, so what you major in also matters.

The electrician can then own their own business and eventually make more than a programmer at a midsize company.

However, statistically, most electricians don't go on to own their own business.

You have to get out of this binary thinking. Read the article and then form your opinions...but you can't just respond 1/2-cocked with nothing but...well nothing.

BTW, there are plenty of programmers without college degrees.

Education is much more than academics just as success is more than income/degree. My requirement for my kids (young adults) is to continue expanding their knowledge and experience while maintaining good health (physical and mental). They all have part time jobs but not all are in college. One is working on a political campaign which is quite an education.

I fully support the PP whose DS is in an apprentice program. Good for him! There will always be a demand for plumbers!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would be very upset, but it's true that college isn't for everyone.

Having stated that, you should show your kid the income trajectory for those with degree and those without.

WSJ just ran a big article on the number of underemployed college graduates. For most of those kids, college was a negative investment.

The income trajectories are heavily influenced by outcomes in STEM, finance, etc. If you look at the trajectories outside of many quantitative majors, again, it won't produce the results you want to see.

This isn't to say you don't need skills, however, go out to SFO and there are thousands of people working in tech without college degrees...but they are skilled.

Advancement in the workplace usually requires a degree.

Yes, an electrician can make more than English major, so what you major in also matters.

The electrician can then own their own business and eventually make more than a programmer at a midsize company.

However, statistically, most electricians don't go on to own their own business.

Mine. She turned 21 yesterday. It kind of kills me. She is living with her boyfriend and his father. She had a nervous breakdown in high school and I think she's associated learning with all her mental illness issues. She couldn't complete HS and it took her three years to work up to taking her GED, which she passed on the first try. She works at a smoothie shop - I can't get a clear answer how many hours a week it is. She claims she doesn't want to go to college because she doesn't know what she wants to do and so it would be a waste.

She says she wants to work with her hands - I told her fine, go become a plumber or an electrician. No. She doesn't want to have to talk to people. I told her fine, go become a dishwasher in a restaurant. No, she doesn't want to work in the food service industry. Fine, go be a hotel maid and work in hospitality. No, she doesn't want to have to wear a uniform. Fine, go become a car mechanic at a big place, where someone else deals with the customers and you just work on the cars. No, that doesn't appeal to her. And on and on.

Every so often she'll ask me how to become some random profession. I think I want to be a writer - how did Elizabeth become an online editor? She went to school and double majored in English and journalism.

I just don't know how to help this kid. Who is now an adult.

Anonymous wrote:

Instead of what he doesn’t want to do (college) focus on what he DOES want to do. What’s his plan? How does he want to spend his time, be productive and start supporting himself of heading in that direction? Vocational training, apprenticeship, something else?

This. College isn't for everyone, but everyone needs a plan for what to do after high school. That could be further education (college, vocational, apprenticeship), joining the military, starting a business, or something else. Work with your child to make this plan, whatever it is, and figure out how to follow through on it.

This includes, of course, becoming financially self-sufficient and moving out of the parents' house. It is worth supporting your child while he is working towards this goal, but only as long as he continues to make progress. You are supporting the goal of becoming self-sufficient, not the goal of sitting at home all day being lazy.

Exactly this. Our 16 yo might not go to college and if he does, might not go right away. He has very good grades so that’s not an issue. He is already thinking about different plans and is motivated. We support him as long as there is some type of plan.

Instead of what he doesn’t want to do (college) focus on what he DOES want to do. What’s his plan? How does he want to spend his time, be productive and start supporting himself of heading in that direction? Vocational training, apprenticeship, something else?

This. College isn't for everyone, but everyone needs a plan for what to do after high school. That could be further education (college, vocational, apprenticeship), joining the military, starting a business, or something else. Work with your child to make this plan, whatever it is, and figure out how to follow through on it.

This includes, of course, becoming financially self-sufficient and moving out of the parents' house. It is worth supporting your child while he is working towards this goal, but only as long as he continues to make progress. You are supporting the goal of becoming self-sufficient, not the goal of sitting at home all day being lazy.