Anonymous
02/06/2024 13:12
Subject: Women's middle aged appearance, through the decades
Anonymous wrote:I am a 1992 millennial with Silent Generation parents who in turn were raised by parents who came of age during the Great Depression. They had some very aging ideas about appropriate fashion:
1. You must wear sheer pantyhose, no bare legs, even if it's super hot outside.
2. Clothing cannot cling to the body. Nobody can know you have a butt. Awkward darts on shirts, though, meant it was a good quality shirt.
3. They loved synthetic fabrics because they grew up having to iron everything. You cannot wear wrinkly clothing, this is a sin as bad as having a crooked part in your hair. (This is also why they loved canned vegetables and frozen dinners, it was seen as a wonderful time-saving invention.)
4. Jeans are only for children and adults who work in the trades.
5. Hair styles were a big thing, as others have pointed out. You only wash your hair once a week, and ideally you get it done at the beauty salon with a wash and set. Overnight curlers were a total thing, with the perm being a big time saver.
If you just washed your hair and let it air dry? Slattern.
Also, short hair after a certain age (30) was de rigeur because long hair was viewed as aging. Bear in mind that lot of actresses had very short hair (Audrey Hepburn) so it was chic, just as we'll all be wearing beachy waves in our hair at the nursing home some day.
What did my parents consider sad, old people clothing? those 1940s victory skirt suits. https://vintagedancer.com/1940s/1940s-victory-suit/
My mother often lamented that nobody wore hats and gloves anymore, and subsequently looked super sloppy. I guess we've all come full circle because I can't believe LL Bean sells jogger-style pajama pants that you can wear outside the house.
Slightly OT but I am so curious about this - you were born in 1992 but your parents were silent generation? How old were they when they had you?
Anonymous
02/06/2024 12:37
Subject: Women's middle aged appearance, through the decades
Anonymous wrote:I think the biggest shift has been in attitude about what married women and women with kids were "allowed" to look like. There was a time when being a mom or a married woman and wearing your hair down and loose, wearing more casual clothes or showing your body shape in any way, even wearing attractive makeup or jewelry, would have been considered wrong.
This attitude didn't disappear all at once and in certain very religious or conservative communities, it actually still exists, and women in those communities still look prematurely aged.
But for most of us the shift happened sometime between the 60s and the 80s, and was somewhat gradual, until by the 90s, the idea that a woman had to start looking older and dowdier upon marriage and kids was basically gone.
I think we swung too far in the other direction for a time with the idea that middle aged moms need to look "hot" and still be attractive to the average man, which is just misogyny at work. But now we're sort of in the middle, where middle aged women can be comfortable and practice body acceptance and do what they want with regards to hair and makeup (including skipping it all together and letting themselves go gray) but we don't also require them to cover themselves up, hide their shape under heavy-duty bras and girdles, or wear "ladylike" clothes that conform to very narrow ideas of what women can do and be.
I feel truly liberated with how I look as a mom in my 40s. I don't always like how I look, but I don't feel a ton of pressure to conform to any specific look or to please any specific social group with my clothes or beauty choices. It's progress.
I agree that styling is a lot of it, but those women live hella depressing lives. That gets written all over people’s faces. Even for the women who are doing all the “right” things to look younger or their own age, if you’re deeply unhappy, you look dragged down and haggard and that ages a person.
Anonymous
02/06/2024 12:15
Subject: Women's middle aged appearance, through the decades
Some of this is the face serums and chemicals that we have now. DH is amazed at all the serums I use: AHA, BA, Tretinoin, Niacinamide, fancy sunscreens, salicylic acid...
My Boomer mom's hair in the 2000s was WAY better looking and more attractive than the 1980s and 90s short, permed, big hair. She looks so much better now.
Can the pp upthread stop talking about how polished Europeans are? The average European is just as dumpy as the average American. See your average Brit with their fried skin, they smoke and have bad hair styles. The average German looks very wrinkly to me too and I can tell that they smoked too from their skin.
My Boomer mom's hair in the 2000s was WAY better looking and more attractive than the 1980s and 90s short, permed, big hair. She looks so much better now.
Can the pp upthread stop talking about how polished Europeans are? The average European is just as dumpy as the average American. See your average Brit with their fried skin, they smoke and have bad hair styles. The average German looks very wrinkly to me too and I can tell that they smoked too from their skin.
Anonymous
02/06/2024 12:04
Subject: Re:Women's middle aged appearance, through the decades
Middle aged women still look old to young people.
Anonymous
02/06/2024 12:03
Subject: Women's middle aged appearance, through the decades
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I am a 1992 millennial with Silent Generation parents who in turn were raised by parents who came of age during the Great Depression. They had some very aging ideas about appropriate fashion:
1. You must wear sheer pantyhose, no bare legs, even if it's super hot outside.
2. Clothing cannot cling to the body. Nobody can know you have a butt. Awkward darts on shirts, though, meant it was a good quality shirt.
3. They loved synthetic fabrics because they grew up having to iron everything. You cannot wear wrinkly clothing, this is a sin as bad as having a crooked part in your hair. (This is also why they loved canned vegetables and frozen dinners, it was seen as a wonderful time-saving invention.)
4. Jeans are only for children and adults who work in the trades.
5. Hair styles were a big thing, as others have pointed out. You only wash your hair once a week, and ideally you get it done at the beauty salon with a wash and set. Overnight curlers were a total thing, with the perm being a big time saver.
If you just washed your hair and let it air dry? Slattern.
Also, short hair after a certain age (30) was de rigeur because long hair was viewed as aging. Bear in mind that lot of actresses had very short hair (Audrey Hepburn) so it was chic, just as we'll all be wearing beachy waves in our hair at the nursing home some day.
What did my parents consider sad, old people clothing? those 1940s victory skirt suits. https://vintagedancer.com/1940s/1940s-victory-suit/
My mother often lamented that nobody wore hats and gloves anymore, and subsequently looked super sloppy. I guess we've all come full circle because I can't believe LL Bean sells jogger-style pajama pants that you can wear outside the house.
I'm 45 and recently went to a meeting with a European head of state in Athleta Brooklyn "ankle" pants, AND the protocol lady (whom I'd met before and was friendly with) asked where I got them because she liked them so much. Frankly, this is what I consider civilized--accepting people as long as they are in clean, presentable, affordable clothing without pretense. I did have heels on. Heels are what we need to totally get rid of next!
You cannot compare American political fashion and European politician fashion. In the photos where you see the Euro politician standing next to the Americans, they look so stylish and effortlessly polished in something like a fashionable jean, leather moto jacket, and casual sneaker--while the Americans are standing there in their Ann Taylor sheath dress, dowdy one inch heels, and their "It's an Important Meeting and I Must Look Like I Mean Business" Emotional Support Blazer. If you insist on dressing like a community banker from the midwest, at least take off your lanyards, people.
Anonymous
02/06/2024 11:59
Subject: Women's middle aged appearance, through the decades
Anonymous wrote:Hairstyles for sure.
But also the idea of any sort of sex appeal was reserved for young, single women in their late teens and very early 20s.
In our mothers’ time, you got married at age 20-24 —and once you were a married woman, your manner of dressing and styling needed to fit in with your new role, which usually included role of mother by age 30. And social media was called TV. Who were the “mothers” on TV at that time? June Cleaver, Donna Reed, Carol Brady,…all women who had short hair set in rollers and wore dresses and “sensible heels” with a simple strand of pearls to the market for grocery shopping.
The era of late-80s nighttime soaps like Dynasty, Falcon Crest, Dallas ushered in a new brand of married woman who could be a mother AND have a spicy side that wasn’t quite so matronly. Even the mid-80s sitcoms brought mothers with a less matronly look and more style/flair like Cosby Show’s Claire Huxtable, Growing Pain’s Maggie Seaver, and even through the portrayal of hippie-turned-mom Family Ties’ Elyse Keaton that accompanied mothers being portrayed as career women.
In this way, I think one can argue that media was definitely driving culture rather than reflecting it.
So as a collective we all agree that short hair is elderly? Yes!
Anonymous
02/06/2024 11:49
Subject: Women's middle aged appearance, through the decades
Anonymous wrote:I am a 1992 millennial with Silent Generation parents who in turn were raised by parents who came of age during the Great Depression. They had some very aging ideas about appropriate fashion:
1. You must wear sheer pantyhose, no bare legs, even if it's super hot outside.
2. Clothing cannot cling to the body. Nobody can know you have a butt. Awkward darts on shirts, though, meant it was a good quality shirt.
3. They loved synthetic fabrics because they grew up having to iron everything. You cannot wear wrinkly clothing, this is a sin as bad as having a crooked part in your hair. (This is also why they loved canned vegetables and frozen dinners, it was seen as a wonderful time-saving invention.)
4. Jeans are only for children and adults who work in the trades.
5. Hair styles were a big thing, as others have pointed out. You only wash your hair once a week, and ideally you get it done at the beauty salon with a wash and set. Overnight curlers were a total thing, with the perm being a big time saver.
If you just washed your hair and let it air dry? Slattern.
Also, short hair after a certain age (30) was de rigeur because long hair was viewed as aging. Bear in mind that lot of actresses had very short hair (Audrey Hepburn) so it was chic, just as we'll all be wearing beachy waves in our hair at the nursing home some day.
What did my parents consider sad, old people clothing? those 1940s victory skirt suits. https://vintagedancer.com/1940s/1940s-victory-suit/
My mother often lamented that nobody wore hats and gloves anymore, and subsequently looked super sloppy. I guess we've all come full circle because I can't believe LL Bean sells jogger-style pajama pants that you can wear outside the house.
I'm 45 and recently went to a meeting with a European head of state in Athleta Brooklyn "ankle" pants, AND the protocol lady (whom I'd met before and was friendly with) asked where I got them because she liked them so much. Frankly, this is what I consider civilized--accepting people as long as they are in clean, presentable, affordable clothing without pretense. I did have heels on. Heels are what we need to totally get rid of next!
Anonymous
02/06/2024 11:41
Subject: Women's middle aged appearance, through the decades
Such an interesting conversation. Another aspect might be that 'aerobics' and working out wasn't really a thing for women until the 1980's. I remember how shocked people were when people like Jane Fonda showed up on TV in leotards! Again, I think it was the idea that women who weren't young weren't expected to be wearing revealing clothing like a leotard -- and in public! It was kind of scandalous! That's why they had things like Jazzercise and that other gym that was just for ladies. I grew up in the 1970's mostly and I remember all the moms seemed to have a pooch and to wear stretch pants. I don't remember either of my parents owning a pair of jeans -- but they were really conservative. Weird thing is that now that my mom has alzheimer's she seems to have forgotten how conservative she is 'supposed' to dress and last time I saw her, she had her eighty year old self wearing black jeans. And she looked good. And comfortable.
Anonymous
02/06/2024 11:36
Subject: Women's middle aged appearance, through the decades
I am a 1992 millennial with Silent Generation parents who in turn were raised by parents who came of age during the Great Depression. They had some very aging ideas about appropriate fashion:
1. You must wear sheer pantyhose, no bare legs, even if it's super hot outside.
2. Clothing cannot cling to the body. Nobody can know you have a butt. Awkward darts on shirts, though, meant it was a good quality shirt.
3. They loved synthetic fabrics because they grew up having to iron everything. You cannot wear wrinkly clothing, this is a sin as bad as having a crooked part in your hair. (This is also why they loved canned vegetables and frozen dinners, it was seen as a wonderful time-saving invention.)
4. Jeans are only for children and adults who work in the trades.
5. Hair styles were a big thing, as others have pointed out. You only wash your hair once a week, and ideally you get it done at the beauty salon with a wash and set. Overnight curlers were a total thing, with the perm being a big time saver.
If you just washed your hair and let it air dry? Slattern.
Also, short hair after a certain age (30) was de rigeur because long hair was viewed as aging. Bear in mind that lot of actresses had very short hair (Audrey Hepburn) so it was chic, just as we'll all be wearing beachy waves in our hair at the nursing home some day.
What did my parents consider sad, old people clothing? those 1940s victory skirt suits. https://vintagedancer.com/1940s/1940s-victory-suit/
My mother often lamented that nobody wore hats and gloves anymore, and subsequently looked super sloppy. I guess we've all come full circle because I can't believe LL Bean sells jogger-style pajama pants that you can wear outside the house.
1. You must wear sheer pantyhose, no bare legs, even if it's super hot outside.
2. Clothing cannot cling to the body. Nobody can know you have a butt. Awkward darts on shirts, though, meant it was a good quality shirt.
3. They loved synthetic fabrics because they grew up having to iron everything. You cannot wear wrinkly clothing, this is a sin as bad as having a crooked part in your hair. (This is also why they loved canned vegetables and frozen dinners, it was seen as a wonderful time-saving invention.)
4. Jeans are only for children and adults who work in the trades.
5. Hair styles were a big thing, as others have pointed out. You only wash your hair once a week, and ideally you get it done at the beauty salon with a wash and set. Overnight curlers were a total thing, with the perm being a big time saver.
If you just washed your hair and let it air dry? Slattern.
Also, short hair after a certain age (30) was de rigeur because long hair was viewed as aging. Bear in mind that lot of actresses had very short hair (Audrey Hepburn) so it was chic, just as we'll all be wearing beachy waves in our hair at the nursing home some day.
What did my parents consider sad, old people clothing? those 1940s victory skirt suits. https://vintagedancer.com/1940s/1940s-victory-suit/
My mother often lamented that nobody wore hats and gloves anymore, and subsequently looked super sloppy. I guess we've all come full circle because I can't believe LL Bean sells jogger-style pajama pants that you can wear outside the house.
Anonymous
02/06/2024 11:36
Subject: Women's middle aged appearance, through the decades
I think the biggest shift has been in attitude about what married women and women with kids were "allowed" to look like. There was a time when being a mom or a married woman and wearing your hair down and loose, wearing more casual clothes or showing your body shape in any way, even wearing attractive makeup or jewelry, would have been considered wrong.
This attitude didn't disappear all at once and in certain very religious or conservative communities, it actually still exists, and women in those communities still look prematurely aged.
But for most of us the shift happened sometime between the 60s and the 80s, and was somewhat gradual, until by the 90s, the idea that a woman had to start looking older and dowdier upon marriage and kids was basically gone.
I think we swung too far in the other direction for a time with the idea that middle aged moms need to look "hot" and still be attractive to the average man, which is just misogyny at work. But now we're sort of in the middle, where middle aged women can be comfortable and practice body acceptance and do what they want with regards to hair and makeup (including skipping it all together and letting themselves go gray) but we don't also require them to cover themselves up, hide their shape under heavy-duty bras and girdles, or wear "ladylike" clothes that conform to very narrow ideas of what women can do and be.
I feel truly liberated with how I look as a mom in my 40s. I don't always like how I look, but I don't feel a ton of pressure to conform to any specific look or to please any specific social group with my clothes or beauty choices. It's progress.
This attitude didn't disappear all at once and in certain very religious or conservative communities, it actually still exists, and women in those communities still look prematurely aged.
But for most of us the shift happened sometime between the 60s and the 80s, and was somewhat gradual, until by the 90s, the idea that a woman had to start looking older and dowdier upon marriage and kids was basically gone.
I think we swung too far in the other direction for a time with the idea that middle aged moms need to look "hot" and still be attractive to the average man, which is just misogyny at work. But now we're sort of in the middle, where middle aged women can be comfortable and practice body acceptance and do what they want with regards to hair and makeup (including skipping it all together and letting themselves go gray) but we don't also require them to cover themselves up, hide their shape under heavy-duty bras and girdles, or wear "ladylike" clothes that conform to very narrow ideas of what women can do and be.
I feel truly liberated with how I look as a mom in my 40s. I don't always like how I look, but I don't feel a ton of pressure to conform to any specific look or to please any specific social group with my clothes or beauty choices. It's progress.
Anonymous
02/06/2024 11:35
Subject: Women's middle aged appearance, through the decades
Older Gen X here, and very few people wore sunscreen in the 70s and 80s. Thankfully we are the first generation to wear it more and protect our skin, even though it was in our 20s or 30s.
We also aren't having all our hair chopped super short unless we absolutely need to do that for some reason, or just like the look. I was under pressure from hairstylists to chop my hair once I turned 30 and resisted. Now, 20 years later, stylists don't care and do whatever you want within reason.
I think use of higher spf sunscreen, wearing hair at a more flattering length for your face rather than peer pressure, significantly less smoking, less air borne pollution and less daily hard manual labor around the house has us all looking younger.
Friends who smoked for a long time, did tanning beds, or are daily long distance runners have much more aged faces. The runners at least are in great shape, but look haggard.
We also aren't having all our hair chopped super short unless we absolutely need to do that for some reason, or just like the look. I was under pressure from hairstylists to chop my hair once I turned 30 and resisted. Now, 20 years later, stylists don't care and do whatever you want within reason.
I think use of higher spf sunscreen, wearing hair at a more flattering length for your face rather than peer pressure, significantly less smoking, less air borne pollution and less daily hard manual labor around the house has us all looking younger.
Friends who smoked for a long time, did tanning beds, or are daily long distance runners have much more aged faces. The runners at least are in great shape, but look haggard.
Anonymous
02/06/2024 11:34
Subject: Women's middle aged appearance, through the decades
Hairstyles for sure.
But also the idea of any sort of sex appeal was reserved for young, single women in their late teens and very early 20s.
In our mothers’ time, you got married at age 20-24 —and once you were a married woman, your manner of dressing and styling needed to fit in with your new role, which usually included role of mother by age 30. And social media was called TV. Who were the “mothers” on TV at that time? June Cleaver, Donna Reed, Carol Brady,…all women who had short hair set in rollers and wore dresses and “sensible heels” with a simple strand of pearls to the market for grocery shopping.
The era of late-80s nighttime soaps like Dynasty, Falcon Crest, Dallas ushered in a new brand of married woman who could be a mother AND have a spicy side that wasn’t quite so matronly. Even the mid-80s sitcoms brought mothers with a less matronly look and more style/flair like Cosby Show’s Claire Huxtable, Growing Pain’s Maggie Seaver, and even through the portrayal of hippie-turned-mom Family Ties’ Elyse Keaton that accompanied mothers being portrayed as career women.
In this way, I think one can argue that media was definitely driving culture rather than reflecting it.
But also the idea of any sort of sex appeal was reserved for young, single women in their late teens and very early 20s.
In our mothers’ time, you got married at age 20-24 —and once you were a married woman, your manner of dressing and styling needed to fit in with your new role, which usually included role of mother by age 30. And social media was called TV. Who were the “mothers” on TV at that time? June Cleaver, Donna Reed, Carol Brady,…all women who had short hair set in rollers and wore dresses and “sensible heels” with a simple strand of pearls to the market for grocery shopping.
The era of late-80s nighttime soaps like Dynasty, Falcon Crest, Dallas ushered in a new brand of married woman who could be a mother AND have a spicy side that wasn’t quite so matronly. Even the mid-80s sitcoms brought mothers with a less matronly look and more style/flair like Cosby Show’s Claire Huxtable, Growing Pain’s Maggie Seaver, and even through the portrayal of hippie-turned-mom Family Ties’ Elyse Keaton that accompanied mothers being portrayed as career women.
In this way, I think one can argue that media was definitely driving culture rather than reflecting it.
Anonymous
02/06/2024 11:14
Subject: Re:Women's middle aged appearance, through the decades
My mom looks younger now than she did in the 90s. I see pictures from my older sister's wedding and mine in 1998. The hairstyle and outfits made women appear much older. I watched the Martha Stewart special and same with her. There was a period of time where she looked much better than she did in the 80s/90s. Hairstyles got softer, clothes less frumpy.
I truly think GenX is the first generation where people look so much younger. I compare our ~50 to 50 of boomers and older and we look more like 30-40.
I truly think GenX is the first generation where people look so much younger. I compare our ~50 to 50 of boomers and older and we look more like 30-40.
Anonymous
02/06/2024 11:12
Subject: Women's middle aged appearance, through the decades
Anonymous wrote:A lot of it is style and culture. In the first year of Golden Girls, Dorothy and Rose were only 55 and Blanche was a year or two younger. They had old-lady hair and clothes, all of them. It was like they'd bought out a Chico's or worse. And had wash-n-set hair. I'm 53 and would never wear what they were wearing or style my hair like that -- nor would anyone I know (which is the "culture" I refer to, back then all women of that age would have dressed like that, or, gasp, aspired to).
Also, a generation or two ago everyone smoke and drank to excess and didn't wear sunscreen. So. YMMV on that.
The clothes were terrible. They really emphasized the menopause body too.
Anonymous
02/06/2024 11:08
Subject: Women's middle aged appearance, through the decades
A lot of it is style and culture. In the first year of Golden Girls, Dorothy and Rose were only 55 and Blanche was a year or two younger. They had old-lady hair and clothes, all of them. It was like they'd bought out a Chico's or worse. And had wash-n-set hair. I'm 53 and would never wear what they were wearing or style my hair like that -- nor would anyone I know (which is the "culture" I refer to, back then all women of that age would have dressed like that, or, gasp, aspired to).
Also, a generation or two ago everyone smoke and drank to excess and didn't wear sunscreen. So. YMMV on that.
Also, a generation or two ago everyone smoke and drank to excess and didn't wear sunscreen. So. YMMV on that.