OP here. I should add that it is incredibly selfish of her that she does not want to contribute his retirement income to his care, after he worked hard to support the entire family plus her mother for decades. All because she wants to continue an unsustainable living situation for herself.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't get what you are talking about. No one can force you to pay and if an uncle is getting guardianship they can apply for government assistance. She can keep the house. They just put a lien on it when she passes. I doubt a judge would give a sibling guardianship over a spouse. None of this makes sense.

OP here. My in-laws live in Germany; she wouldn't be able to keep the house there, if she is forced to pay for his
nursing home.

Where does Germany expect your MIL to live? They can’t make her homeless! You say she has no assets except the house. If she sells the house and uses the proceeds to pay for your FIL’s nursing home then is she just homeless? I refuse to believe this is the way things work in Germany. Mainly because this is actually worse than in tge U it’s States and I am quite certain there is a solid social back stop to protect people.

My parents got rid of all their assets. We did almost a reverse mortgage for them. They could no longer afford their home and sold it. We ended up using some of their money to put a down payment on a home in our name. They live there not paying rent or mortgage or any bills. They have no income besides $1000 per month social security. Because they have no assets, they qualify for Medicaid and my dad can get free nursing home care. My dad doesn’t want to go and would rather die at home but he does qualify and I’m fairly certain it would not cost us anything. When he went to rehab after surgery, it was a terrible experience full of neglect. I’m not sure how much better a gov funded nursing home would be.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't get what you are talking about. No one can force you to pay and if an uncle is getting guardianship they can apply for government assistance. She can keep the house. They just put a lien on it when she passes. I doubt a judge would give a sibling guardianship over a spouse. None of this makes sense.

OP here. My in-laws live in Germany; she wouldn't be able to keep the house there, if she is forced to pay for his
nursing home.

Where does Germany expect your MIL to live? They can’t make her homeless! You say she has no assets except the house. If she sells the house and uses the proceeds to pay for your FIL’s nursing home then is she just homeless? I refuse to believe this is the way things work in Germany. Mainly because this is actually worse than in tge U it’s States and I am quite certain there is a solid social back stop to protect people.

OP here. My MIL can be forced under German law to go to a nursing home if she is no longer able to take care of herself (which she isn't) and home care is not feasible. First a guardian would need to be appointed for her, too. The problem is that she is still very clear in her head, to the point where she can lie flawlessly (now she claims that she has no more pain at all, can walk around, etc.)

The €700k proceeds of the home sale (no mortgage) will be more than enough to pay for both of their nursing home costs for many years. They are both 85-86 years old.

If she were able to care for herself, she could rent an apartment using the home sale proceeds. So, of course, she would not become homeless.

I am in my mid forties and several people we know have parents who can no longer take care of themselves physically or financially.

This causes strain between spouses, siblings, aunts and uncles and grandchildren.

In my situation, my dad doesn’t want to go to a nursing home. The cost is secondary although we can pay for it. Instead, he lives at home and we have approximately 50 hours of home aid help. My mom and brother help take care of him the rest of the hours.

If you cannot pay for it, meaning you have to go into debt, I would not pay for it. Does Germany not have government run nursing homes? This is a tough spot. Where would MIL live if they sold the house? Doesn’t sound like 700k home is some grand home. I would want to die in my own home too. Sorry, no real helpful responses.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't get what you are talking about. No one can force you to pay and if an uncle is getting guardianship they can apply for government assistance. She can keep the house. They just put a lien on it when she passes. I doubt a judge would give a sibling guardianship over a spouse. None of this makes sense.

OP here. My in-laws live in Germany; she wouldn't be able to keep the house there, if she is forced to pay for his
nursing home.

Where does Germany expect your MIL to live? They can’t make her homeless! You say she has no assets except the house. If she sells the house and uses the proceeds to pay for your FIL’s nursing home then is she just homeless? I refuse to believe this is the way things work in Germany. Mainly because this is actually worse than in tge U it’s States and I am quite certain there is a solid social back stop to protect people.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What is the house worth? Could you pay and have the house deeded to DH? Then you can sell it to payback the loan?

Who inherits the house when MIL dies?

OP here. Theoretically my husband, as he is their only child. Practically, she can draw up a new will at any time and disinherit him.

The property must be worth around 700k euros.

I would get it in writing that if you pay for the care, then you are guaranteed the house.

Also, be forewarned that she will want 24 hour care in the house when it is her time.

No, it's very unwise to front money for a future reimbursement or real estate, even if you have a written agreement. It might never be honored, and going to court is very expensive. You just say you've paid enough, you do not agree with the care options, and you have lost trust that the right decisions will be made, or that you'll ever see your money back. The money stops there. The uncle is going his best. MIL is on her own.

And by this I mean that he's trying to get FIL's money to go to his actual care. I think you should talk to the uncle directly. There are perhaps solutions that you don't yet know exist, that he can find out for you. No more payments until he can scout them out. Neither MIL nor your husband are reliable reporters at this point.

Anonymous wrote:I don’t think it’s accurate to say she’s forcing you. Your husband wants to.

The law in Germany is on the MIL‘s side. The government could go after the son if he earns more than €100k. How they enforce it overseas is another question.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What is the house worth? Could you pay and have the house deeded to DH? Then you can sell it to payback the loan?

Who inherits the house when MIL dies?

OP here. Theoretically my husband, as he is their only child. Practically, she can draw up a new will at any time and disinherit him.

The property must be worth around 700k euros.

I would get it in writing that if you pay for the care, then you are guaranteed the house.

Also, be forewarned that she will want 24 hour care in the house when it is her time.

No, it's very unwise to front money for a future reimbursement or real estate, even if you have a written agreement. It might never be honored, and going to court is very expensive. You just say you've paid enough, you do not agree with the care options, and you have lost trust that the right decisions will be made, or that you'll ever see your money back. The money stops there. The uncle is going his best. MIL is on her own.

Anonymous wrote:OP here. Thanks for your input. I agree, the best idea to let the guardian take charge.

The problem is, however, that my husband is on his mother's side on this. He wants to enable her to stay in the (unsuitable) house, and claims that in this situation it is our duty to pay for his father's care. He already told me that he, too, will refuse to go to a nursing home when the time comes.

Then you look up the number to report elder abuse in Germany and report this. I hate to say it but your MIL sounds like she may have dementia. This behavior is rooted in fear and it’s a terrible situation for her and her husband.

Do you work?

I would refuse to use any marital funds o y for your FIL’s nursing home. That’s literally what his salary is for.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What is the house worth? Could you pay and have the house deeded to DH? Then you can sell it to payback the loan?

Who inherits the house when MIL dies?

OP here. Theoretically my husband, as he is their only child. Practically, she can draw up a new will at any time and disinherit him.

The property must be worth around 700k euros.

I would get it in writing that if you pay for the care, then you are guaranteed the house.

Also, be forewarned that she will want 24 hour care in the house when it is her time.

Anonymous wrote:Is brother angling to get the house?

OP here. No, most certainly not. My FIL's brother is just trying to be helpful, after having watched with dismay what has been happening.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What is the house worth? Could you pay and have the house deeded to DH? Then you can sell it to payback the loan?

Who inherits the house when MIL dies?

OP here. Theoretically my husband, as he is their only child. Practically, she can draw up a new will at any time and disinherit him.

The property must be worth around 700k euros.

Anonymous wrote:I don’t think it’s accurate to say she’s forcing you. Your husband wants to.

It may be true, but I cannot leave the poor father-in-law rotting at home. His wife barely spoke five words to him per day.

Anonymous wrote:I don't get what you are talking about. No one can force you to pay and if an uncle is getting guardianship they can apply for government assistance. She can keep the house. They just put a lien on it when she passes. I doubt a judge would give a sibling guardianship over a spouse. None of this makes sense.

OP here. My in-laws live in Germany; she wouldn't be able to keep the house there, if she is forced to pay for his nursing home.

I am relieved to hear your husband's uncle is attempting to become his brother's guardian. Clearly MIL is not able, for whatever reason, to make the best decisions for him.

Tell your husband that this is your hill to die on. You refuse to take out loans, or impact your own retirement, or your children's college funding, for your in-laws' eldercare. You prefer to divorce. Tell him this emphatically, because this is a battle of wills and you need to win it. Do not pay anything.

The discussion of what your husband wishes to do in his senior years is completely separate, given that finances, country and probably medical issues will be different... therefore you should refuse to get sidetracked by it.