Anonymous
03/11/2024 04:46
Subject: Creative writing/MFA programs for mid career
Anonymous wrote:Just audit a workshop at a local university. GMU has a program.
You can’t usually audit these courses.
Go to the Writer’s Center in Bethesda
Anonymous
03/11/2024 04:43
Subject: Creative writing/MFA programs for mid career
Take creative writing classes at the Writer’s Center in Bethesda. Do not get the MFA.
Anonymous
03/10/2024 19:18
Subject: Creative writing/MFA programs for mid career
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Just audit a workshop at a local university. GMU has a program.
Why is everyone so down on OP doing this, when she has the $ for it and isn't going in with super unrealistic expectations? I would ABSOLUTELY go get my MFA today if I had the cash lying around.
I have an MFA that I didn’t have to pay for (fully funded) and I advised op upthread not to do it. If you haven’t been in academia for awhile it’s easy to imagine cozy, stimulating discussions and forget what it’s really like: the credentialusm, the egos, the super PC policing of language/tone, the infighting, the pet students, the drinking and sleeping with each other. I’m not saying I didn’t enjoy pieces of my experience but I was in my 20s. It’s not the most efficient way for op to get what she wants.
+1
PP is spot on.
I was also fully funded for my MFA and very glad I did not spend money on that degree.
If I was doing it now, I’d pick and choose and not worry about the degree.
Anonymous
02/08/2024 08:36
Subject: Creative writing/MFA programs for mid career
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Just audit a workshop at a local university. GMU has a program.
Why is everyone so down on OP doing this, when she has the $ for it and isn't going in with super unrealistic expectations? I would ABSOLUTELY go get my MFA today if I had the cash lying around.
People are "down on" it because they have experience with it. I won't call MFAs programs a scam, but they are damn close. OP can do what she wants to do -- work on her writing in a workshop environment -- in better ways.
But she doesn't want those other ways. She has $ in a 529 to spend. I know people with MFAs who had a good experience.
I think this is the question OP. Do you definitely want to use the 529 funds toward an MFA program. Or do you want to find a writer workshop where you’ll be accepted in your 50s and maybe build some community? I have been in local writer workshops with people who were atrocious writers yet had something they wanted to say… and everyone was supportive.
Anonymous
02/08/2024 08:35
Subject: Creative writing/MFA programs for mid career
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Just audit a workshop at a local university. GMU has a program.
Why is everyone so down on OP doing this, when she has the $ for it and isn't going in with super unrealistic expectations? I would ABSOLUTELY go get my MFA today if I had the cash lying around.
People are "down on" it because they have experience with it. I won't call MFAs programs a scam, but they are damn close. OP can do what she wants to do -- work on her writing in a workshop environment -- in better ways.
But she doesn't want those other ways. She has $ in a 529 to spend. I know people with MFAs who had a good experience.
I question that "good experience." I mean, I'm sure they think they did. The very worst writer from my MFA program (and she's terrible, and fwiw was over 50 when she entered the program after having been denied admission 3x (why they eventually admitted her I don't know)) goes on and on about what a wonderful experience it was as she vanity publishes book after book that the people we went to school sneer at.
For context: I overheard a conversation had by a group of program directors from several low res programs -- and they were discussing the serious ethical problems that come with the boom in MFA programs. Chief one being that large numbers of students who will never be writers, because they don't have any talent, are accepted to and enroll in MFA programs every year ... all full of hope and a willingness to spend on the degree because they don't understand that not only will they never make a cent as a writer, they probably won't even manage to get published in a lit mag that doesn't pay. MFA programs support writers -- but not the ones that enroll in their programs. MFA programs were designed to support the writers employed by the programs to teach. Those writers have books and maybe even acclaim and/or fame, but not a lot of money. A job as a professor gives them the support they need to continue writing and a (somewhat) respected place at the table (see the hierarchy at the AWP conference). Out of my MFA cohort, I'm the only one who has seen any success at all, and if I had to do it over again I would not bother with the MFA.
Oh, and I appreciate everyone's suggestion that OP attend Bread Loaf, Sewanee or Tin House, but that might not happen for OP. I've been to 2/3 (and only as a paid contributor), but many of my friends from my MFA cohort have applied to all of them, year after year, and have never been accepted. There are other writers' workshops that are easier to get into, and many are pay-to-play, so OP could do conferences ... and I think they would be a better bet than an MFA program. But OP shouldn't get too excited about the idea of attending the more selective conferences -- the odds aren't good. But, OP, if you want to you can still apply to Sewanee (the BL and TH app deadlines have passed) and see what happens.
+1.
The value my (luckily fully funded) MFA program gave me in my 20s was the realization I did NOT want to pursue writing as a career.
Anonymous
02/07/2024 22:00
Subject: Creative writing/MFA programs for mid career
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Just audit a workshop at a local university. GMU has a program.
Why is everyone so down on OP doing this, when she has the $ for it and isn't going in with super unrealistic expectations? I would ABSOLUTELY go get my MFA today if I had the cash lying around.
I have an MFA that I didn’t have to pay for (fully funded) and I advised op upthread not to do it. If you haven’t been in academia for awhile it’s easy to imagine cozy, stimulating discussions and forget what it’s really like: the credentialusm, the egos, the super PC policing of language/tone, the infighting, the pet students, the drinking and sleeping with each other. I’m not saying I didn’t enjoy pieces of my experience but I was in my 20s. It’s not the most efficient way for op to get what she wants.
My mid-30s sibling is the middle of a MFA program right now and the petty bullshit she deals with from 20 year olds just sounds exhausting.
Anonymous
02/07/2024 15:17
Subject: Creative writing/MFA programs for mid career
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Just audit a workshop at a local university. GMU has a program.
Why is everyone so down on OP doing this, when she has the $ for it and isn't going in with super unrealistic expectations? I would ABSOLUTELY go get my MFA today if I had the cash lying around.
People are "down on" it because they have experience with it. I won't call MFAs programs a scam, but they are damn close. OP can do what she wants to do -- work on her writing in a workshop environment -- in better ways.
But she doesn't want those other ways. She has $ in a 529 to spend. I know people with MFAs who had a good experience.
I question that "good experience." I mean, I'm sure they think they did. The very worst writer from my MFA program (and she's terrible, and fwiw was over 50 when she entered the program after having been denied admission 3x (why they eventually admitted her I don't know)) goes on and on about what a wonderful experience it was as she vanity publishes book after book that the people we went to school sneer at.
For context: I overheard a conversation had by a group of program directors from several low res programs -- and they were discussing the serious ethical problems that come with the boom in MFA programs. Chief one being that large numbers of students who will never be writers, because they don't have any talent, are accepted to and enroll in MFA programs every year ... all full of hope and a willingness to spend on the degree because they don't understand that not only will they never make a cent as a writer, they probably won't even manage to get published in a lit mag that doesn't pay. MFA programs support writers -- but not the ones that enroll in their programs. MFA programs were designed to support the writers employed by the programs to teach. Those writers have books and maybe even acclaim and/or fame, but not a lot of money. A job as a professor gives them the support they need to continue writing and a (somewhat) respected place at the table (see the hierarchy at the AWP conference). Out of my MFA cohort, I'm the only one who has seen any success at all, and if I had to do it over again I would not bother with the MFA.
Oh, and I appreciate everyone's suggestion that OP attend Bread Loaf, Sewanee or Tin House, but that might not happen for OP. I've been to 2/3 (and only as a paid contributor), but many of my friends from my MFA cohort have applied to all of them, year after year, and have never been accepted. There are other writers' workshops that are easier to get into, and many are pay-to-play, so OP could do conferences ... and I think they would be a better bet than an MFA program. But OP shouldn't get too excited about the idea of attending the more selective conferences -- the odds aren't good. But, OP, if you want to you can still apply to Sewanee (the BL and TH app deadlines have passed) and see what happens.
Anonymous
02/07/2024 14:01
Subject: Creative writing/MFA programs for mid career
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Just audit a workshop at a local university. GMU has a program.
Why is everyone so down on OP doing this, when she has the $ for it and isn't going in with super unrealistic expectations? I would ABSOLUTELY go get my MFA today if I had the cash lying around.
People are "down on" it because they have experience with it. I won't call MFAs programs a scam, but they are damn close. OP can do what she wants to do -- work on her writing in a workshop environment -- in better ways.
But she doesn't want those other ways. She has $ in a 529 to spend. I know people with MFAs who had a good experience.
Anonymous
02/07/2024 13:55
Subject: Creative writing/MFA programs for mid career
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Just audit a workshop at a local university. GMU has a program.
Why is everyone so down on OP doing this, when she has the $ for it and isn't going in with super unrealistic expectations? I would ABSOLUTELY go get my MFA today if I had the cash lying around.
I have an MFA that I didn’t have to pay for (fully funded) and I advised op upthread not to do it. If you haven’t been in academia for awhile it’s easy to imagine cozy, stimulating discussions and forget what it’s really like: the credentialusm, the egos, the super PC policing of language/tone, the infighting, the pet students, the drinking and sleeping with each other. I’m not saying I didn’t enjoy pieces of my experience but I was in my 20s. It’s not the most efficient way for op to get what she wants.
Anonymous
02/07/2024 11:39
Subject: Creative writing/MFA programs for mid career
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Just audit a workshop at a local university. GMU has a program.
Why is everyone so down on OP doing this, when she has the $ for it and isn't going in with super unrealistic expectations? I would ABSOLUTELY go get my MFA today if I had the cash lying around.
People are "down on" it because they have experience with it. I won't call MFAs programs a scam, but they are damn close. OP can do what she wants to do -- work on her writing in a workshop environment -- in better ways.
Anonymous
02/07/2024 08:54
Subject: Creative writing/MFA programs for mid career
Anonymous wrote:Just audit a workshop at a local university. GMU has a program.
Why is everyone so down on OP doing this, when she has the $ for it and isn't going in with super unrealistic expectations? I would ABSOLUTELY go get my MFA today if I had the cash lying around.
Anonymous
02/07/2024 08:51
Subject: Creative writing/MFA programs for mid career
Anonymous wrote:I got an MFA at George Mason (in fiction) when I was about ten years younger than you are. I have also worked at AWP (so I've seen the sausage being made with regard to MFA programs). This is my advice -- don't bother with it. I can expound it you want, but you have probably already heard that advice?
At any rate, the most welcoming programs for writers of 50ish are going to be the low-res programs. You can easily Google and figure out which ones are the most respected. But I absolutely do not recommend them, they are cash cows for the schools so there is little to no funding. If you feel you just absolutely must get an MFA apply to only fully funded programs (you pay no tuition and you get a stipend for attending). This isn't just about wasting money on tuition (I see above you have money in a 529 to throw at this?) -- writers who are fully funded are a lot more respected than those who pay tuition. A lot more. And schools that fund some people but not others? That can be an ugly scene with resentment brewing all around (again, it's not just about money, it's about respect, it's about who is considered good).
If you just want to workshop your writing there are other ways. The big writers' workshops for instance -- have you applied to Bread Loaf, Tin House and Sewanee? I've been to both Bread Loaf and Tin House and many of my workshop mates have gone on to have very, very successful books published.
There is also a hierarchy at Bread Loaf. If you are funded, you are considered a better writer. You might get to attend certain parties. The parties are segregated. One of my friends worked there and part of his job was gently redirecting people to the parties for their “level.” If you are top of the heap, it would be great. I have colleagues who are “in” and even teach there and this is very good for their writing career.
If you are a full pay person, people will be nice but they won’t take you seriously and you won’t get the meetings with the agents.
Sewanee has a hierarchy but it’s more subtle.
I probably wouldn’t spend money on the MFA.
Iowa is a studio program or used to be. You don’t have to take random classes. Other programs require lit classes that may or may not be relevant.
You could look into low res. My friends of advanced ages have done them and seemed to like them but I’d talk to older graduates (google them and reach out) and see if they were ostracized by other students due to their age or not.
Anonymous
02/06/2024 14:23
Subject: Creative writing/MFA programs for mid career
Just audit a workshop at a local university. GMU has a program.
Anonymous
02/06/2024 13:47
Subject: Creative writing/MFA programs for mid career
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:It’s not a good idea. Find local writing classes. Many are filled with older people and professionals. They will be accepting and will help you with your writing goals. Consider going to conferences if you can get time away in the summer — Breadloaf is famous but there are others that are shorter, less expensive, and less IMO stodgy. There are people of all ages and backgrounds there and a very cool community develops.
Why not an MFA? First, because you will be paying for a masters degree and will have to fulfill the university requirements. At my MFA that included passing a second language exam, taking some literary theory, taking weird courses only tangentially related to writing that we were required to take because the department wanted to fill the course, etc. second, because it will be hard to find a peer group. The oldest student in my MFA was in his late thirties and he was considered amusingly old. There was some pressure on my program to go on for a PhD in creative writing (esp for poets) and many did.
In your opinion? Stodgy? What is your opinion based on? Because I've been and it was magical and not remotely "stodgy."
Breadloaf is not stodgy!
OK, but I prefer Sewanee and Tin House.
Sure, Jan.
Anonymous
02/06/2024 07:13
Subject: Creative writing/MFA programs for mid career
Here is the link for UCLA extension: https://www.uclaextension.edu/writing-journalism/creative-writing