Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote: I just posted, but forgot to say the older generation in my family is like this too to some degree. If you had a fancy job then marrying in made you in the group and not an other. However, the ladies like to play other. So my mom didn't even get along well with her sister, but they loved to be mean girls when it came to cousin's wife and the brother's wife. Now the only living "relative" my mom has is her SIL, the one she despised. They talk a lot and my mom tries to be a mean girl with her and gossip about any others she can think of. It's all pretty weird.

For some people, the only way they know how to form alliances is to create 'outsiders'.
They don't know how to make friends, be diplomatic (to everyone in general), and understand their own boundaries.
It's an instinctive tribal impulse I think.

+1. So primitive! Think about it - marrying inside your family, criticizing anyone not "of blood" (the very white do this too), the toxic gossip about "she does this and she does that" - to make themselves look better (except they don't!).

One of my friends did this when her brother married. The "new girl" was (this negative and that negative) - but really, she was different than my friend, so my friend felt threatened that she could not dominate her brother any longer, since he is now married and "grown up". I saw their wedding video, and boy, were some of my friend's family totally rude about the new couple. Just so deliberately hurtful, mean and nasty, for no reason at all, really immature and clannish. No nice comments about welcome to the family or anything like that, as you would suspect.

But when my friend's DC's got married hoo boy - the seas parted as if no one else ever had a wedding before, and the money was flowing from my friend. It was get out the red carpet behavior, and it was obvious. I learned a lot about my friend during weddings in her family. She really confirmed what I suspected - she can't be happy for anyone else. Not a nice or good person, and let's just say I am glad I did not marry into her family, I just see it from the sidelines. Be mindful when people show you who they really are, OP.

Maybe you are better off as an "outsider", who so often tries to make that statement, and who is this kind of person, OP. Do you really want to be accepted by that kind of person?

Anonymous wrote: I just posted, but forgot to say the older generation in my family is like this too to some degree. If you had a fancy job then marrying in made you in the group and not an other. However, the ladies like to play other. So my mom didn't even get along well with her sister, but they loved to be mean girls when it came to cousin's wife and the brother's wife. Now the only living "relative" my mom has is her SIL, the one she despised. They talk a lot and my mom tries to be a mean girl with her and gossip about any others she can think of. It's all pretty weird.

For some people, the only way they know how to form alliances is to create 'outsiders'.
They don't know how to make friends, be diplomatic (to everyone in general), and understand their own boundaries.
It's an instinctive tribal impulse I think.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Some people look for drama. Can you imagine a guy bringing this up?

My DH is that guy. He doesn't articulate it like that. But basically family is him, his parents and siblings. It's a specific mindset, I understand what OP means.

OP, overtime this insular system is not accepting of strangers, so basically the sister will be made to see how her boy toy doesn't measure up to their fine core family and she will eventually agree. People might stay together with their spouses but still not have both feet in, even after houses, children, etc. Parents' and siblings' judgement will always be more important.

+1 My DH's family (South American immigrants) is the same way, although my DH is not. However, my DH didn't see it for a very long time (like 15 years). It's caused a number of issues in our relationship. Counseling helped our core relationship but for a very long time I just refused to go to his family events because I had no interest in being treated like a second class citizen.

Once his parents' generation started dying off, things got immensely better. Yet, anytime an out of country/town relative visits, vestiges reappear. Just last month, a male relative was over for dinner. He knows a lot of the family history and was telling DH and the kids (young adults) about it. He actually used the phrase, 'not of the blood', several times! Meaning, that person really wasn't a 'Larlason' because 'they weren't of the blood'. THAT, probably more than anything, really brought home to DH the insularity of his family.

The blood connection and related expressions are relevant in many cultures. In many cultures people married with related people and it’s very important to distinguish between the blood related relatives and not blood related ones. But families with many interconnections are the norm.

I just posted, but forgot to say the older generation in my family is like this too to some degree. If you had a fancy job then marrying in made you in the group and not an other. However, the ladies like to play other. So my mom didn't even get along well with her sister, but they loved to be mean girls when it came to cousin's wife and the brother's wife. Now the only living "relative" my mom has is her SIL, the one she despised. They talk a lot and my mom tries to be a mean girl with her and gossip about any others she can think of. It's all pretty weird.

I get it OP. My husband's family is like this. His sister also complains about everyone, but when she liked her husband he was one of them, not the other. The rest of us who married in were the other. Then she had marital problems and he was the other too. Now they are divorced so he's even more other than I am.

I saw it early and didn't fit in the culture of gossip and criticizing everyone one of the "others" not at the table. I also didn't want to deprive my husband of his family. So we agreed I would come to major events, but he would see them otherwise on his own. Then, he got sick of the gossip and he started to feel like the other because the rule is you also have to join the mean talk. So now we are both pretty distant from them, but he decided on his role on his own and it had to come from him.

Do they expect YOU, personally, to “fawn”? Or do they expect the people they actually care about to fawn?

I’m not sure what responses here would make you do anything other than be polite to any new people, and to be pleasant. What, you’re going to shun them to make sure they, too, feel ostracized?