Anonymous
Post 01/29/2024 12:24     Subject: Why do people w/ free airfare/hotels with miles/points always reply critically to the "is 20K good for a trip posts?"
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I don't have miles but we went to Europe twice as a family of three for almost 2 weeks, stayed in pretty nice hotels, and spend 7K. So I feel like that is low for a family of 4 and a few extra days but 20K is a LOT more.


When was this? Things have gone up A LOT in airfare and hotels post-covid.


Once post COVID and once pre-COVID. But we don't say "we're going to Rome let's look for tickets and hotels" rather, we say "we're going to Europe, what airport is most economical to fly into" and go from there.


Yup, same here and we come in around 6K-7K for two weeks for a family of three. Both in 2022 (Germany/Austria/Italy) and 2023 (Portugal). We also stay in Airbnb's for $225 or less per night and book our car rental early and watch for sales.
Anonymous
Post 01/29/2024 12:14     Subject: Why do people w/ free airfare/hotels with miles/points always reply critically to the "is 20K good for a trip posts?"
Southwest points are very easy to use (no blackouts) of you want to get points without going all out. The only catch is that they don't fly to most international destinations.
Anonymous
Post 01/28/2024 22:22     Subject: Why do people w/ free airfare/hotels with miles/points always reply critically to the "is 20K good for a trip posts?"
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Listen, it's all about the sign up bonuses. After that, whatever points you are getting-- cash back, airline points, hotel, whatever-- really don't add up that much no matter what type of card you use.

Neither of us travels much for work. We simply cycle in and out of cards. It's not that hard or much effort. Keep one for a year or two, cancel it, sign up for a different one. Get the 70-100k bonus points. My husband and I both do this and we do at least one international trip per year for our family of 4 with free plane tickets.


PP above. Ok. This is really helpful. So basically you need to keep opening new accounts. The cards aren't useful on an ongoing basis. That makes sense. However then the value of the cash back you gave up during your qualification period does need to be subtracted from the value of the tickets you earned.

I feel better informed now. Thanks for sharing your experience!


Fellow churner PP here. Yes, hence the word "churning"- as in rotating through credit cards consistently. It takes some organization and discipline, and a spreadsheet to track the various things you need to keep track of.

But you don't really have anything you give up for the spending, because you also earn the regular points on the spending in addition to the bonuses. For an example, right now I am working on a 90k point Chase bonus, requiring $6k in spending. But the card also earns 1.5x points for every dollar. So I will earn about 9k points (1.5 x 6k spend) plus the 90k bonus points. So my total for the one card is almost 100k actually. Those points are worth between $1500-2000 depending on how they are used (and figuring out how to maximize that takes a lot of time to learn). As opposed to the $120 I would have gotten from a 2% cash back card.

It's not for everyone because of the tracking/discipline/learning curve. Many people understandably see it as too much work/hassle. Those who stick with it tend to like the process, see it as a game or a puzzle.
Anonymous
Post 01/28/2024 22:12     Subject: Why do people w/ free airfare/hotels with miles/points always reply critically to the "is 20K good for a trip posts?"
Use your points and miles, folks! Airlines, hotels, and credit card companies have and can devalue them.
Anonymous
Post 01/28/2024 22:04     Subject: Why do people w/ free airfare/hotels with miles/points always reply critically to the "is 20K good for a trip posts?"
Anonymous wrote:Listen, it's all about the sign up bonuses. After that, whatever points you are getting-- cash back, airline points, hotel, whatever-- really don't add up that much no matter what type of card you use.

Neither of us travels much for work. We simply cycle in and out of cards. It's not that hard or much effort. Keep one for a year or two, cancel it, sign up for a different one. Get the 70-100k bonus points. My husband and I both do this and we do at least one international trip per year for our family of 4 with free plane tickets.


PP above. Ok. This is really helpful. So basically you need to keep opening new accounts. The cards aren't useful on an ongoing basis. That makes sense. However then the value of the cash back you gave up during your qualification period does need to be subtracted from the value of the tickets you earned.

I feel better informed now. Thanks for sharing your experience!
Anonymous
Post 01/28/2024 21:56     Subject: Why do people w/ free airfare/hotels with miles/points always reply critically to the "is 20K good for a trip posts?"
Agree - but it’s the same with people who bought a house 10 years ago with a down payment from their parents weighing in when people say houses are unaffordable.

People generally ARE tone deaf to the fact that anyone else’s lived experience is so different that their own. People who travel a lot for work and have status and points tend to socialize with other people who do the same, so they assume everyone has points too.

We also use cash back cards.
Anonymous
Post 01/28/2024 21:47     Subject: Why do people w/ free airfare/hotels with miles/points always reply critically to the "is 20K good for a trip posts?"
Listen, it's all about the sign up bonuses. After that, whatever points you are getting-- cash back, airline points, hotel, whatever-- really don't add up that much no matter what type of card you use.

Neither of us travels much for work. We simply cycle in and out of cards. It's not that hard or much effort. Keep one for a year or two, cancel it, sign up for a different one. Get the 70-100k bonus points. My husband and I both do this and we do at least one international trip per year for our family of 4 with free plane tickets.
Anonymous
Post 01/28/2024 21:28     Subject: Why do people w/ free airfare/hotels with miles/points always reply critically to the "is 20K good for a trip posts?"
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Ok, but if I have a 1 or 1.5% cash card, and I only buy discounted hotel rooms in US, and I don't have work travel, how can I really make thousands of surplus dollars of points by having a points card?

It seems to me that 10K of real money is better than 20K worth of points that don't apply during blackout dates or aren't for the right airline. Or require American Express use.

I'd love some free airline tickets but I'm not convinced I'd end up benefitting greatly from points cards.


You can earn points on anything you spend money on, not just travel. Do you eat at restaurants? Buy gas? Shop at the supermarket?


PP, yes I do all of those, but mainly groceries. However...as I recall..when my husband had one of these cards briefly, we were disappointed a few times that large logical purchases ended up getting disqualified because the merchant's category to the credit card company was different/excluded from the promo category. So, for example, our indie grocery store where we buy half our groceries did not count as grocery. Also we buy very little gas...especially with work from home...despite having two cars. So...let's say $200 a month just as an example. I understand I could maybe get 5% in points on gas...so $10 in points. Versus $2 in cash. But across a whole year, I'm up maybe $100 or so in points. But that's not going to get me 4 tickets to Europe any time soon. Let's maybe imagine I can get maybe 3 other rotating category bonuses...so maybe I could be up $400 per year in points above a cash card. So...maybe in 12 years or so, I would have earned 4 tickets to Europe at $1,200 apiece in points maybe? We take vacations every year...

We do not eat at restaurants much either. Vacation hotels, yes...but we do already get cash back plus some various discount programs. Does AirBnB count these days?

It just seems like our few tentative steps in this direction did not look favorable in the first few months. I wonder if conditions have changed enough to try again. Pure cash back just requires a lot less mental energy.

I think groceries are the only promo category of predictable spend that I have that's worth leveraging.

Also, I have had trouble getting full value out of Delta miles despite living in a Delta hub so I'm not confident that credit card points would get me the tickets I want at a good price in points. If the point redemption values are a poor deal, then it doesn't matter if you get a multiple of point currency units compared to pure cash back. I have school kids so I have to vacation at peak times.

I'd be interested in knowing about really good experiences with the point redemption side of credit cards. Specifically for air tickets.


What is your overall monthly spend on credit cards? There are cards that provide 1.5 points on everything and then additional points on specific categories. But if you don’t spend much each month, then it doesn’t help.

The other problem honestly is Delta. Their miles are worthless. So if you’re trying to fly them on miles, nothing will help you. They aren’t called Skypesos for nothing.


Fellow churner: this is the exact kind of person who probably shouldn't be trying to get into using points/miles. They don't have the desire to put in the time/energy to maximize points value, which is totally fine. Not for everyone.

PP- get a 2% cash back card like Citi Double Cash. Simple and easy. If you ever decide it's worth it for you to get into points/miles, start somewhere like here:

https://frequentmiler.com/start-here/



LOL. I am PP you are trying to help. Not crazy about dumping full details of my spend on here but estimate at least 1.6K per month on groceries. Also have expensive but "no category" stuff like phone and kids franchised math tutoring that never gets promo'd.

I will read through links provided.

I have run across "Skypesos" before and it's appropriate. I spent years accumulating for a big trip, had the perfect trip booked for 4, the pandemic hit, trip got cancelled and post-pandemic could only get 2.5 tix with same amount of miles. So officially I no longer care about that program.

So which airlines play nice with points cards?


Anonymous
Post 01/28/2024 14:45     Subject: Why do people w/ free airfare/hotels with miles/points always reply critically to the "is 20K good for a trip posts?"
I’m a very casual points user, a chase sapphire reserve and Hilton Amex. By putting our monthly purchases (3-5K) and using transfers we are generally able to get 8-14 nights free at hotels. Annual fees around $400/year so it works out.
Anonymous
Post 01/28/2024 12:27     Subject: Why do people w/ free airfare/hotels with miles/points always reply critically to the "is 20K good for a trip posts?"
Ugh Skypesos are so obnoxious, I’m not in a captive hub but DL works best for where I’m located. I put $75k on my Delta card annually and it’s barely enough for one RT to Europe over the summer every other year.
Anonymous
Post 01/28/2024 12:22     Subject: Why do people w/ free airfare/hotels with miles/points always reply critically to the "is 20K good for a trip posts?"
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Ok, but if I have a 1 or 1.5% cash card, and I only buy discounted hotel rooms in US, and I don't have work travel, how can I really make thousands of surplus dollars of points by having a points card?

It seems to me that 10K of real money is better than 20K worth of points that don't apply during blackout dates or aren't for the right airline. Or require American Express use.

I'd love some free airline tickets but I'm not convinced I'd end up benefitting greatly from points cards.


You can earn points on anything you spend money on, not just travel. Do you eat at restaurants? Buy gas? Shop at the supermarket?


PP, yes I do all of those, but mainly groceries. However...as I recall..when my husband had one of these cards briefly, we were disappointed a few times that large logical purchases ended up getting disqualified because the merchant's category to the credit card company was different/excluded from the promo category. So, for example, our indie grocery store where we buy half our groceries did not count as grocery. Also we buy very little gas...especially with work from home...despite having two cars. So...let's say $200 a month just as an example. I understand I could maybe get 5% in points on gas...so $10 in points. Versus $2 in cash. But across a whole year, I'm up maybe $100 or so in points. But that's not going to get me 4 tickets to Europe any time soon. Let's maybe imagine I can get maybe 3 other rotating category bonuses...so maybe I could be up $400 per year in points above a cash card. So...maybe in 12 years or so, I would have earned 4 tickets to Europe at $1,200 apiece in points maybe? We take vacations every year...

We do not eat at restaurants much either. Vacation hotels, yes...but we do already get cash back plus some various discount programs. Does AirBnB count these days?

It just seems like our few tentative steps in this direction did not look favorable in the first few months. I wonder if conditions have changed enough to try again. Pure cash back just requires a lot less mental energy.

I think groceries are the only promo category of predictable spend that I have that's worth leveraging.

Also, I have had trouble getting full value out of Delta miles despite living in a Delta hub so I'm not confident that credit card points would get me the tickets I want at a good price in points. If the point redemption values are a poor deal, then it doesn't matter if you get a multiple of point currency units compared to pure cash back. I have school kids so I have to vacation at peak times.

I'd be interested in knowing about really good experiences with the point redemption side of credit cards. Specifically for air tickets.


What is your overall monthly spend on credit cards? There are cards that provide 1.5 points on everything and then additional points on specific categories. But if you don’t spend much each month, then it doesn’t help.

The other problem honestly is Delta. Their miles are worthless. So if you’re trying to fly them on miles, nothing will help you. They aren’t called Skypesos for nothing.


Fellow churner: this is the exact kind of person who probably shouldn't be trying to get into using points/miles. They don't have the desire to put in the time/energy to maximize points value, which is totally fine. Not for everyone.

PP- get a 2% cash back card like Citi Double Cash. Simple and easy. If you ever decide it's worth it for you to get into points/miles, start somewhere like here:

https://frequentmiler.com/start-here/

Anonymous
Post 01/28/2024 12:16     Subject: Why do people w/ free airfare/hotels with miles/points always reply critically to the "is 20K good for a trip posts?"
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Ok, but if I have a 1 or 1.5% cash card, and I only buy discounted hotel rooms in US, and I don't have work travel, how can I really make thousands of surplus dollars of points by having a points card?

It seems to me that 10K of real money is better than 20K worth of points that don't apply during blackout dates or aren't for the right airline. Or require American Express use.

I'd love some free airline tickets but I'm not convinced I'd end up benefitting greatly from points cards.


You can earn points on anything you spend money on, not just travel. Do you eat at restaurants? Buy gas? Shop at the supermarket?


PP, yes I do all of those, but mainly groceries. However...as I recall..when my husband had one of these cards briefly, we were disappointed a few times that large logical purchases ended up getting disqualified because the merchant's category to the credit card company was different/excluded from the promo category. So, for example, our indie grocery store where we buy half our groceries did not count as grocery. Also we buy very little gas...especially with work from home...despite having two cars. So...let's say $200 a month just as an example. I understand I could maybe get 5% in points on gas...so $10 in points. Versus $2 in cash. But across a whole year, I'm up maybe $100 or so in points. But that's not going to get me 4 tickets to Europe any time soon. Let's maybe imagine I can get maybe 3 other rotating category bonuses...so maybe I could be up $400 per year in points above a cash card. So...maybe in 12 years or so, I would have earned 4 tickets to Europe at $1,200 apiece in points maybe? We take vacations every year...

We do not eat at restaurants much either. Vacation hotels, yes...but we do already get cash back plus some various discount programs. Does AirBnB count these days?

It just seems like our few tentative steps in this direction did not look favorable in the first few months. I wonder if conditions have changed enough to try again. Pure cash back just requires a lot less mental energy.

I think groceries are the only promo category of predictable spend that I have that's worth leveraging.

Also, I have had trouble getting full value out of Delta miles despite living in a Delta hub so I'm not confident that credit card points would get me the tickets I want at a good price in points. If the point redemption values are a poor deal, then it doesn't matter if you get a multiple of point currency units compared to pure cash back. I have school kids so I have to vacation at peak times.

I'd be interested in knowing about really good experiences with the point redemption side of credit cards. Specifically for air tickets.


What is your overall monthly spend on credit cards? There are cards that provide 1.5 points on everything and then additional points on specific categories. But if you don’t spend much each month, then it doesn’t help.

The other problem honestly is Delta. Their miles are worthless. So if you’re trying to fly them on miles, nothing will help you. They aren’t called Skypesos for nothing.
Anonymous
Post 01/28/2024 12:11     Subject: Why do people w/ free airfare/hotels with miles/points always reply critically to the "is 20K good for a trip posts?"
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Ok, but if I have a 1 or 1.5% cash card, and I only buy discounted hotel rooms in US, and I don't have work travel, how can I really make thousands of surplus dollars of points by having a points card?

It seems to me that 10K of real money is better than 20K worth of points that don't apply during blackout dates or aren't for the right airline. Or require American Express use.

I'd love some free airline tickets but I'm not convinced I'd end up benefitting greatly from points cards.


You can earn points on anything you spend money on, not just travel. Do you eat at restaurants? Buy gas? Shop at the supermarket?


PP, yes I do all of those, but mainly groceries. However...as I recall..when my husband had one of these cards briefly, we were disappointed a few times that large logical purchases ended up getting disqualified because the merchant's category to the credit card company was different/excluded from the promo category. So, for example, our indie grocery store where we buy half our groceries did not count as grocery. Also we buy very little gas...especially with work from home...despite having two cars. So...let's say $200 a month just as an example. I understand I could maybe get 5% in points on gas...so $10 in points. Versus $2 in cash. But across a whole year, I'm up maybe $100 or so in points. But that's not going to get me 4 tickets to Europe any time soon. Let's maybe imagine I can get maybe 3 other rotating category bonuses...so maybe I could be up $400 per year in points above a cash card. So...maybe in 12 years or so, I would have earned 4 tickets to Europe at $1,200 apiece in points maybe? We take vacations every year...

We do not eat at restaurants much either. Vacation hotels, yes...but we do already get cash back plus some various discount programs. Does AirBnB count these days?

It just seems like our few tentative steps in this direction did not look favorable in the first few months. I wonder if conditions have changed enough to try again. Pure cash back just requires a lot less mental energy.

I think groceries are the only promo category of predictable spend that I have that's worth leveraging.

Also, I have had trouble getting full value out of Delta miles despite living in a Delta hub so I'm not confident that credit card points would get me the tickets I want at a good price in points. If the point redemption values are a poor deal, then it doesn't matter if you get a multiple of point currency units compared to pure cash back. I have school kids so I have to vacation at peak times.

I'd be interested in knowing about really good experiences with the point redemption side of credit cards. Specifically for air tickets.
Anonymous
Post 01/28/2024 11:36     Subject: Why do people w/ free airfare/hotels with miles/points always reply critically to the "is 20K good for a trip posts?"
Anonymous wrote:Ok, but if I have a 1 or 1.5% cash card, and I only buy discounted hotel rooms in US, and I don't have work travel, how can I really make thousands of surplus dollars of points by having a points card?

It seems to me that 10K of real money is better than 20K worth of points that don't apply during blackout datea or aren't for the right airline. Or require American Express use.

I'd love some free airline tickets but I'm not convinced I'd end up benefitting greatly from points cards.


You can earn points on anything you spend money on, not just travel. Do you eat at restaurants? Buy gas? Shop at the supermarket?
Anonymous
Post 01/28/2024 09:07     Subject: Why do people w/ free airfare/hotels with miles/points always reply critically to the "is 20K good for a trip posts?"
Because having cc miles is their identity and they’re just trying to flex