Anonymous wrote:Our 8th grade son is questioning why he has to learn certain subjects -- will never need them in life (such as physics, chemistry, foreign language... or advanced math classes in late high school, etc.). Wants to go to school only for "useful" things he will actually use in his life/job. We've explained endlessly the importance of all his classes. This isn't a passing conversation, but a constant source of stress in our home. Him begging us not to have to go to school -- hates it, hates school work. Emotional break downs. Anything outside of the box we should be thinking about? With two parents with masters degrees, all we know is the traditional high school/college path.... but are there different kinds of high schools we should consider? Schools in which kids specialize earlier in certain careers? We are in Arlington, but open to the DC metro area or virtual. He does like coding and investing and perhaps other careers. It seems awfully young to zone in on a path. And even still, I imagine he'd still have to take most of the traditional high school required classes. Or has anyone else dealt with this and have any other suggestions? Their child pushing back on needing/wanting to do certain subjects, saying they were "useless?" He's smart, but dysgraphic/ADHD disorganized, so that may be playing a role. School feels hard to him. He begs us to help him and relieve him from having to go to school all together, which of course we can't do. We're tying to help in so many ways, but still falling short. The stress and tears continue. He otherwise is a really good kid. Thanks in advance for any thoughts.

Call an IEP meeting, consider new/different meds, and hire exec function coach.

Anonymous wrote:This is because he has ADHD and is struggling so much, not because of a philosophical orientation toward practicality. Kids often hate what is difficult and makes them feel bad. But it takes a fair amount of organization and exec function to be successful in a trade or small business so I would focus on building those skills regardless. The co-op tech programs in HS could also be appealing.

I knew he has ADHD from your post even before you got to that. He is saying he is flailing, and he needs a lot more support.

This is because he has ADHD and is struggling so much, not because of a philosophical orientation toward practicality. Kids often hate what is difficult and makes them feel bad. But it takes a fair amount of organization and exec function to be successful in a trade or small business so I would focus on building those skills regardless. The co-op tech programs in HS could also be appealing.

He does not need to be taking foreign language in 8th. He does not need to be in math above Algebra in 8th. My guess is you have him in both.

Op, his overall schedule is too hard. Whatever it is, it's too hard. Likely, even if he could rise to the expectations for each class, each subject, taken all together -- the schedule in it's entirety it too hard for him to manage. Research the minimum required to graduate high school and attend a 4 yr university -- somewhere. If that means no Honors Classes, that's ok. No AP classes. Any excess energy he's not applying towards school, he's likely to apply towards ECs. He needs to be on a team in HS, for example. Get exercise. Some sports are noncut. Maybe he'll have time for drama or music, or something. He'll get enjoyment from hobbies. And he will go to college -- somewhere.

Anonymous wrote:Our 8th grade son is questioning why he has to learn certain subjects -- will never need them in life (such as physics, chemistry, foreign language... or advanced math classes in late high school, etc.). Wants to go to school only for "useful" things he will actually use in his life/job. We've explained endlessly the importance of all his classes. This isn't a passing conversation, but a constant source of stress in our home. Him begging us not to have to go to school -- hates it, hates school work. Emotional break downs. Anything outside of the box we should be thinking about? With two parents with masters degrees, all we know is the traditional high school/college path.... but are there different kinds of high schools we should consider? Schools in which kids specialize earlier in certain careers? We are in Arlington, but open to the DC metro area or virtual. He does like coding and investing and perhaps other careers. It seems awfully young to zone in on a path. And even still, I imagine he'd still have to take most of the traditional high school required classes. Or has anyone else dealt with this and have any other suggestions? Their child pushing back on needing/wanting to do certain subjects, saying they were "useless?" He's smart, but dysgraphic/ADHD disorganized, so that may be playing a role. School feels hard to him. He begs us to help him and relieve him from having to go to school all together, which of course we can't do. We're tying to help in so many ways, but still falling short. The stress and tears continue. He otherwise is a really good kid. Thanks in advance for any thoughts.

If you're in Arlington, definitely have him apply to Arlington Tech. They have different pathways - engineering, culinary arts, medical (which can include things like getting certified as an EMT) animal science - etc. They still require the core curriculum but the electives are really cool. My kids go to W&L but have taken classes at the career center, which is another option.

A part of me thinks most boys should not start high school until they are 16.

Anonymous wrote:Perhaps Fusion Academy would be a good option.

+1 a friend's child felt the same way about school and wanted to enter a fine arts trade, started a high school completion program at Fusion, finished high school early, took gap year, worked a real job and hated it, matured, and is now at a very competitive university.

My DS sounds similar to yours but I'm a bit further down the road than you. In my DS's case, he always wanted to be involved with music (even though he never played an instrument despite my efforts) and basketball (even though he's shorter than average and is not athletic). He did very well in classes he cared about and abysmally in the ones he did. Like your DS, he saw no point in the classes he didn't think were related to what he wanted to do.

His prescribing psychiatrist gave me some excellent advice: Don't worry about grades. Focus on getting your DS through high school without depression and without a substance abuse issue. Everything outside of that can be fixed later. It was excellent advice. It didn't mean that I didn't have expectations/requirements of DS but it did mean that the priority was on health (we all know the risk factors for kids with ADHD/anxiety/LDs) and the longer depression/substance abuse can be delayed, the better the life outcomes. And, that whatever happened academically in high school would not doom him in any way.

So, my requirement for DS was that he graduate from high school with a regular diploma and that he make 'effort'. Effort is defined by completing all homework assignments and turning them in on time. It included re-taking any tests where he scored less than an 80%. The goals had no relationship to grades but making 'effort'. It didn't matter to me if he got a D in chemistry. It didn't matter that he failed to sign up to take the SAT. It didn't matter that he did nothing to get a driver's license. My requirement was for him to make 'effort' and graduate with a regular diploma. Which he did.

It wasn't until about February his senior year that it all came crashing down on him. He finally realized the consequences of his indifference. His friends were getting their acceptance letters, driver's licenses, etc. and he was feeling left behind. He already knew he wasn't going away for college, not because he didn't take the SAT or apply anywhere but because we were clear on behaviors we needed to see from him to have assurance that he would be successful going away for college. He didn't display them.

We would have been fine with DS going to vocational/trade school but he had no interest in that. He wanted to go to college so I helped him apply to NOVA. I can't say enough good things about it. DS was finally motivated to learn what his younger sister had learned in HS. It wasn't instantaneous and he needed more scaffolded support but he did GREAT! It was no problem for him to transfer to GMU and he has really blossommed. It is AMAZING. He still struggles at times but rather than complain about classes that have nothing to do with what he wants to do, he's seeing the bigger picture and understanding. We just had to get through what your DS is experiencing. HTH.

Anonymous wrote:Read Self Driven Child.

I am starting to come to the conclusion that this book is overrated. And I am a long time fan of Bill Stixrud. What do you think The Self-Driven Child offers to OP?

Perhaps Fusion Academy would be a good option.

He may like Burke in DC. It is not career oriented, but it is life-skills oriented. It’s also good at managing 2E students

Anonymous wrote:Absolutely look into Arlington Career Center and maybe Arlington Tech (they are co-located) I would contact his middle school counselor right away and explain the situation. They can help

To clarify the Arlington Career Center offers classes that students at the base HS are bussed over to take. Generally those are taken in junior-senior year because it can be hard to fit them in your schedule before that. They also offer some summer and weekend classes.

Arlington Tech is the full-time HS at the Career Center. The students follow a project-based learning curriculum, take Dual Enrollment classes instead of AP in the upper grades, and have access to the the Career Center classes. All freshman take an engineering class in addition to the standard APS 9th grade classes.

It looks like applications are already closed so since OP's student is in 8th grade he can't apply for next year, at least not through normal channels. You might talk with your school counselor and/or the AT school principal about options, I don't know if there is a backdoor special placement option.
https://careercenter.apsva.us/arlington-tech/

Absolutely look into Arlington Career Center and maybe Arlington Tech (they are co-located) I would contact his middle school counselor right away and explain the situation. They can help

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is he medicated for the ADHD? Does he have an executive functioning tutor? Does he have an IEP or 504 for support? If not, I would start those three things ASAP. I would keep him in your public base school through ninth grade with all this added and then see where you are.

Also, post this on the SN board.

This. Is he medicated? I had (have) a similar son and medication has been life changing. It helped immensely with executive functioning and motivation.

+1 and have him tour Arlington Tech as an option for high school. It's focused on project based learning, technology, etc.

My son similarly hated school in middle school. At one point he told me if he had to keep taking a foreign language to go to college, he wouldn't go to college, he'd be a plumber. We had him try AT in 9th grade. It was helpful in that we got a lot more feedback from the teachers and that led to us doing a neuropsych and getting the ADHD diagnosis. Added medication and an EF coach. The math teacher was especially encouraging, letting him know she saw a real strength in that subject and getting him to lead projects in that class. He ultimately transferred back to the base school because he missed friends and wanted the bigger environment, but the year he spent there really was transformative. He turned into a really strong student, by junior year taking 3 AP classes with nearly all As and then 5 APs with all As in senior year. He's now doing well in college majoring in data science.

One thing that really seemed to help was the identification of his strength in math. In addition to the teacher talking about it with him, the neuropsych showed he had really strong abilities in that. With that info, he decided he'd major in math in college. That refined over time but it really helped his motivation to understand what he was good at and have a focused goal to work towards vs. a vague idea of college.