Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^ In the future if he inappropriately touches a girl in the hallway and she has a really negative reaction to it, are you also going to teach him that her reaction was 80% related to something else?

oh come on. this sounds like absolutely normal 10 year old boy play, with the other child being overly sensitive. yes OP’s child should take responsibility and learn to be more careful around this child, but there’s nothing fundamentally wrong with boys playing in a physical manner.

Pushing isn't a part of PE.

At 10 years old, the boy seems to have gotten off light for pushing another student.

There's this doctrine in tort law called "the eggshell plaintiff"...it means that you are liable for any injuries that your actions cause, no matter how unforeseen or unusual or uncommon, even if the average person would not suffer those injuries. I know they are 10 and this isn't a lawsuit or anything, but the teacher's take is literally the law in this country, so she's probably not so off base...

Can't your son be sorry without feeling shame?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^ In the future if he inappropriately touches a girl in the hallway and she has a really negative reaction to it, are you also going to teach him that her reaction was 80% related to something else?

This is a great way to think about it. You don't get to minimize someone else's reaction to something just because you think it's a bit much. That's not the way the world works.

Well, you also don’t get to magnify the gravity of someone’s conduct if they behaved in a normal way but inadvertently harmed someone abnormally sensitive. It’s pretty clear the child has emotional challenges - I’ve seen it before where a child dramatically overreacts to normal situations.

This is really about how the school is handling it in placing all the blame on OP’s son and magnifying the gravity of what he did. OP’s not wrong to pick up on that. What I suspect is that the sensitive child’s parents don’t really know or accept what is going on with their kid, and based on the extremity of his reaction, believe that the other kids are at fault. And this is likely not the first incident.

Wat if he accidentally bumped into the weird kid and he went into a full-blown panic attack? Accountable thrrr too?

Anonymous wrote:^ In the future if he inappropriately touches a girl in the hallway and she has a really negative reaction to it, are you also going to teach him that her reaction was 80% related to something else?

oh come on. this sounds like absolutely normal 10 year old boy play, with the other child being overly sensitive. yes OP’s child should take responsibility and learn to be more careful around this child, but there’s nothing fundamentally wrong with boys playing in a physical manner.

Anonymous wrote:^ In the future if he inappropriately touches a girl in the hallway and she has a really negative reaction to it, are you also going to teach him that her reaction was 80% related to something else?

This is a great way to think about it. You don't get to minimize someone else's reaction to something just because you think it's a bit much. That's not the way the world works.

Anonymous wrote:Very weird that the snowflake went into a panic attack, I would push back hard

Physically or...?

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Anonymous wrote:I don't think you're nuts. They're 10 year old boys, and while the other kid's reaction is unfortunate, it's WAY outside of the norm. I'd feel similarly.

I’m a teacher. I never would have communicated to you that your son was in any way responsible for a panic attack. My contact would have been about the push and that we don’t do that, even in jest.

Op - this is what I said to my husband. Why tell me all this detail about the kid’s panic attack?
I myself get panic attacks in enclosed spaces so I have a huge amount of sympathy for the kid - but I don’t want ds to internalize that he is the entire cause of that

Maybe the teacher wanted to give you full context to talk to your kid as they were a witness to the panic attack. I doubt the teacher wants you to pour guilt on to your kid about it, but it is easier for you to talk to your kid with a better understanding of what actually happened. That's how I would have interpreted it, anyway.

Op - maybe - I did try to read it with that lens. But then there was a whole para about finding ways for dc to make amends which didn’t quite fit with that interpretation

My son is at a very progressive school and they would focus on amends, too. That’s because the amends are for the impact, not the intent. The intent was playful! That’s great. But the kid had a panic attack. Your son can make amends without it being about being bad or blaming. Think of it as repair instead - how can your son help the two be friends and feel better again? That’s all it means.

op - i think amends is fine!
but the level of focus on how it affected the other kid just feels 'off' to me. I think a better articulation of it is that it feels to me like the kid's panic attack has 80% roots in something outside of that interaction, and while I absolutely want my DC to be accountable for being physical in a way that was not appropriate, I don't want him to internalize shame about the magnitude of the kid's reaction to it.

I hear what you're saying, but also, it was his actions that caused a huge reaction. To the PP's example that you liked - what if the child had a blood clotting disorder and had fallen and incurred some sort of internal bleeding from the push that resulted in a hospital stay? I'm not saying your son should pay the hospital bills in that situation, but the unintended consequences of his action were serious, and I don't think it's an issue if the magnitude of his sense of personal responsibility is also larger than normal. I don't like the word shame, I like the word responsibility. He didn't push the kid knowing what the result would be, but so many times in life there are unintended consequences to our actions, and learning to take responsibility for those is part of living in society and interacting with other people. Obviously your kid is 10, and not an adult, but I just get the sense that you're trying to protect your kid too much here. What he did wasn't acceptable and it caused a really big problem for someone else. He needs to think about that a bit.

^ In the future if he inappropriately touches a girl in the hallway and she has a really negative reaction to it, are you also going to teach him that her reaction was 80% related to something else?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't think you're nuts. They're 10 year old boys, and while the other kid's reaction is unfortunate, it's WAY outside of the norm. I'd feel similarly.

I’m a teacher. I never would have communicated to you that your son was in any way responsible for a panic attack. My contact would have been about the push and that we don’t do that, even in jest.

Op - this is what I said to my husband. Why tell me all this detail about the kid’s panic attack?
I myself get panic attacks in enclosed spaces so I have a huge amount of sympathy for the kid - but I don’t want ds to internalize that he is the entire cause of that

Maybe the teacher wanted to give you full context to talk to your kid as they were a witness to the panic attack. I doubt the teacher wants you to pour guilt on to your kid about it, but it is easier for you to talk to your kid with a better understanding of what actually happened. That's how I would have interpreted it, anyway.

Op - maybe - I did try to read it with that lens. But then there was a whole para about finding ways for dc to make amends which didn’t quite fit with that interpretation

My son is at a very progressive school and they would focus on amends, too. That’s because the amends are for the impact, not the intent. The intent was playful! That’s great. But the kid had a panic attack. Your son can make amends without it being about being bad or blaming. Think of it as repair instead - how can your son help the two be friends and feel better again? That’s all it means.

op - i think amends is fine!
but the level of focus on how it affected the other kid just feels 'off' to me. I think a better articulation of it is that it feels to me like the kid's panic attack has 80% roots in something outside of that interaction, and while I absolutely want my DC to be accountable for being physical in a way that was not appropriate, I don't want him to internalize shame about the magnitude of the kid's reaction to it.

You seem very focused on protecting your child’s feelings. White boy fragility. He is 10 not 2. He is old enough to understand what he did was wrong. They are not asking you to put him in a dungeon for a year, merely talk to him. And it sounds like this is a frequent occurrence.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't think you're nuts. They're 10 year old boys, and while the other kid's reaction is unfortunate, it's WAY outside of the norm. I'd feel similarly.

I’m a teacher. I never would have communicated to you that your son was in any way responsible for a panic attack. My contact would have been about the push and that we don’t do that, even in jest.

Op - this is what I said to my husband. Why tell me all this detail about the kid’s panic attack?
I myself get panic attacks in enclosed spaces so I have a huge amount of sympathy for the kid - but I don’t want ds to internalize that he is the entire cause of that

But...he is? I suppose you're saying that the child has anxiety and your son isn't responsible for that piece, but as a PP pointed out, people can have all sorts of internal things that we can't see. That's a good lesson for your kid to learn, and it applies to words as well. Something your kid could take as a joke might be painful for another kid to hear. That's not to say that we have to treat everyone as if they're made of glass, but to me it means we need to be more aware about the effects our actions (physical or verbal) have on others and be willing to acknowledge any harm we cause. You see a lot on this board that people's first reaction is defensiveness, and I think that's a huge issue. So maybe you're lucky to have this chance to really instill a sense of empathy and humility in your child. The world needs more people like that.

Anonymous wrote:Got a note from dc’s teacher that ds (10) during a PE game, pushed a kid out of his way in a way that ds thought was playful and the other kid did not. The note from the teacher detailed that the kid went on to have a pretty severe panic attack/ hyperventilated etc/ had to leave the class and they would be looking for ways for dc to make amends and for us to talk to dc about the panic attack the other kid had and the gravity of situation. I said of course and let’s maybe chat quickly if teacher has time.

In the past if I have ever had notes about my kids behavior I’ve always been so so contrite and on board with fixing and I absolutely think that pushing is unacceptable and dc should make amends for this.

I am a little concerned though this time with dc feeling completely responsible for another child’s quite extreme reaction to this event. It’s 100000% my dc’s accountability that he pushed someone and even if he thought funny, it was NOT funny or appropriate for that person and never ok to push. But something about giving him the entire burden of responsibility for the kid’s reaction worries me for reasons I can’t articulate. Am I just nuts? It kind of doesn’t matter either way bc I will do the same thing but curious if my feeling has any merit bc I don’t want to be TA

So if they were playing a game, and if your kid is athletic and/or competitive, I doubt it was a "playful" push. A playful push is when someone makes a joke and in return you jokingly shove them away. A push during a game likely isn't playful, it's probably to try to get at a ball or something. I'm not sure what game they were playing, but I don't think most allowing pushing with your arms - pushing with your body is a different thing. Anyway, just saying it's possible that what your kid did was more than what would normally be allowed, since I'm trying to imagine a situation where there's a push of any kind during a game that's ok.

Having said that, even if you kid did push a kid out of the way while playing a game, that is not something that would normally lead to a panic attack. Your son should be contrite for what he did, and he needs to bear in mind in the future that this other kid is very sensitive, but I do think making your son think that he caused a severe panic attack is a bit much. However, I'm trying to think through what would have happened if instead the other kid had broken an arm after being pushed and falling down. I guess I'd liken it to that so your kid could understand. A panic attack isn't a voluntary reaction, and neither is breaking a bone. Your son should understand that sometimes the consequences of our actions are far more severe than we expect them to be, and that's why we need to be more careful.

Very weird that the snowflake went into a panic attack, I would push back hard

Teacher way overstepped, they shouldn’t be discussing this with you at all. Tell your kid to to apologize for pushing that’s it.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't think you're nuts. They're 10 year old boys, and while the other kid's reaction is unfortunate, it's WAY outside of the norm. I'd feel similarly.

I’m a teacher. I never would have communicated to you that your son was in any way responsible for a panic attack. My contact would have been about the push and that we don’t do that, even in jest.

Op - this is what I said to my husband. Why tell me all this detail about the kid’s panic attack?
I myself get panic attacks in enclosed spaces so I have a huge amount of sympathy for the kid - but I don’t want ds to internalize that he is the entire cause of that

Maybe the teacher wanted to give you full context to talk to your kid as they were a witness to the panic attack. I doubt the teacher wants you to pour guilt on to your kid about it, but it is easier for you to talk to your kid with a better understanding of what actually happened. That's how I would have interpreted it, anyway.

Op - maybe - I did try to read it with that lens. But then there was a whole para about finding ways for dc to make amends which didn’t quite fit with that interpretation

Probably the other kid’s parents are making a big deal of it.

Just play along for now.