Anonymous
Post 01/15/2024 08:05     Subject: Was there ever a time when your average nine to fiver could afford the American Dream?
Yes, through the 1970's a family of 4 could get by on a single income. Reagan pretty much destroyed that.
Anonymous
Post 01/15/2024 07:57     Subject: Was there ever a time when your average nine to fiver could afford the American Dream?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:My parents were greatest generation. My dad graduated high school, was a Marine in WWII, came home and did a few semesters of college. He was a salesman, then a cost accountant. My folks bought a 3/2 ranch home, and added a pool. This is on a the salaries of my dad and my mom, who worked in a department stores sales clerk.

The also put me through college on that salary.

The 1 percenters have wrecked the economy. Not the immigrants. America is built on Immersive. It is the grifters like Trump and Musk who are bankrupting the US.






It's called globalization.

It's erroneous to keep comparing America's golden years post-WW2 to the modern economy. There's simply much more competition now that the world has rebuilt from WW2. The golden era was just a blip on the radar and an anomaly that will never happen again.


This, and inflation to the currency that funds the American empire.
Anonymous
Post 01/15/2024 06:25     Subject: Re:Was there ever a time when your average nine to fiver could afford the American Dream?
Anonymous wrote:My in laws could afford a colonial in McLean in the 60’s and 70’s with a single earner salary working for gov as gs12

That is about as middle income as you can get

Now you can’t touch McLean colonials for under 1.5 million. And that is not a gov gs12 single earner family

Demand outstrips supply , and we keep making it worse by importing millions of legal and illegal immigrants. It is insane.



Same though my family lived in Bethesda. My dad peaked at GS 13, mom stayed at home. Put both kids through college, vacations, SFH, etc. Granted my father had a pension.

To get there now you’re talking an income of $250k or more.
Anonymous
Post 01/15/2024 04:37     Subject: Was there ever a time when your average nine to fiver could afford the American Dream?
Anonymous wrote:My parents were greatest generation. My dad graduated high school, was a Marine in WWII, came home and did a few semesters of college. He was a salesman, then a cost accountant. My folks bought a 3/2 ranch home, and added a pool. This is on a the salaries of my dad and my mom, who worked in a department stores sales clerk.

The also put me through college on that salary.

The 1 percenters have wrecked the economy. Not the immigrants. America is built on Immersive. It is the grifters like Trump and Musk who are bankrupting the US.






It's called globalization.

It's erroneous to keep comparing America's golden years post-WW2 to the modern economy. There's simply much more competition now that the world has rebuilt from WW2. The golden era was just a blip on the radar and an anomaly that will never happen again.
Anonymous
Post 01/15/2024 04:32     Subject: Was there ever a time when your average nine to fiver could afford the American Dream?
Grandfather worked in a GM factory post WW2. It was the only source of income for the home. Grandparents owned a house and had 7 kids.
Anonymous
Post 01/15/2024 03:41     Subject: Was there ever a time when your average nine to fiver could afford the American Dream?
My grandfather laid tile for a living and had a three bedroom house. My other grandfather was a barber and owned a three bedroom house. They each owned one car.

All the kids got college educations on their own.
Anonymous
Post 01/15/2024 03:33     Subject: Was there ever a time when your average nine to fiver could afford the American Dream?
Anonymous wrote:My parents were greatest generation. My dad graduated high school, was a Marine in WWII, came home and did a few semesters of college. He was a salesman, then a cost accountant. My folks bought a 3/2 ranch home, and added a pool. This is on a the salaries of my dad and my mom, who worked in a department stores sales clerk.

The also put me through college on that salary.

The 1 percenters have wrecked the economy. Not the immigrants. America is built on Immersive. It is the grifters like Trump and Musk who are bankrupting the US.





Agree to some extent but American consumerism is also a problem. People spend on more things they don’t need than previous generations. Look how many DCUMers believe they must travel abroad at least once a year (usually) more and eat out regularly. If we lived that way, maintained more vegetable gardens at home, and clipped coupons like they did, then everyone would be better off. Buying more crap / experiences has a big impact.
Anonymous
Post 01/15/2024 00:11     Subject: Was there ever a time when your average nine to fiver could afford the American Dream?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Of course this was possible, OP. My dad was a fed. gov't. employee and my mom was a SAHM. They bought a home in Great Falls in the late 70s. The house cost $100,000 and was paid off by the mid-80s when my sibling and I started high school.

That would never happen today. I'm so worried for my own kids' futures.


I believe you but I'm also curious how many sq ft the house was, how many bedrooms & baths?

I grew up in a nice neighborhood on my dad's teacher salary in the 1970s, feeling middle class, but it was a 2 bedroom house and I shared a bedroom with 2 siblings and a bathroom with siblings and parents, so 5 of us using 1 bathroom.

So while I absolutely agree people have to spend more of their salary on housing today, I also think expectations of the type of home people want have greatly increased. How many middle class families in the DMV would be fine living in a house where 5 people shared one bathroom and 3 kids shared 1 bedroom?


I don't know the sq. footage of the house, but it was a traditional colonial - four bedrooms, 2 1/2 baths, almost two acres. Nothing fancy, but very solidly comfortable. That would never happen today.


True. But I bet your family couldn’t have afforded that much house in NYC during those same years on your dad’s salary, could they? DMV has become more desirable in the ensuing years. Not quite NYC desirable. But any time an area becomes a place lots of people want to live then it becomes more expensive. Population has risen tremendously in this area since the late 70s.


My parents came to this country in the ‘50s with 8th grade educations. They managed to buy a house in the NYC suburbs in a very good school district. Mom stayed home once we were born, and dad worked as a bus driver. They sent money home to their families regularly.
Anonymous
Post 01/14/2024 23:59     Subject: Was there ever a time when your average nine to fiver could afford the American Dream?
Anonymous wrote:The logical fallacy of declinism. Things were great until sometime around when you were born, regardless of age, then things kept worse. This is a very predominant psychological phenomenon that shows up in 80%+ of people. It’s across cultures and countries, it’s always getting worse and always has been.

Good article about moral decline, a similar psychological phenomenon https://www.nytimes.com/2023/06/20/opinion/psychology-brain-biased-memory.html?unlocked_article_code=1.N00.qAbu.ZBd1cu4yF6qp&smid=url-share


It’s good to learn about our own cognitive biases: https://reason.com/2023/07/03/people-think-morality-is-declining-surveys-suggest-theyre-wrong/
Anonymous
Post 01/14/2024 23:56     Subject: Was there ever a time when your average nine to fiver could afford the American Dream?
The logical fallacy of declinism. Things were great until sometime around when you were born, regardless of age, then things kept worse. This is a very predominant psychological phenomenon that shows up in 80%+ of people. It’s across cultures and countries, it’s always getting worse and always has been.

Good article about moral decline, a similar psychological phenomenon https://www.nytimes.com/2023/06/20/opinion/psychology-brain-biased-memory.html?unlocked_article_code=1.N00.qAbu.ZBd1cu4yF6qp&smid=url-share
Anonymous
Post 01/14/2024 23:42     Subject: Was there ever a time when your average nine to fiver could afford the American Dream?
Anonymous wrote:My parents were greatest generation. My dad graduated high school, was a Marine in WWII, came home and did a few semesters of college. He was a salesman, then a cost accountant. My folks bought a 3/2 ranch home, and added a pool. This is on a the salaries of my dad and my mom, who worked in a department stores sales clerk.

The also put me through college on that salary.

The 1 percenters have wrecked the economy. Not the immigrants. America is built on Immersive. It is the grifters like Trump and Musk who are bankrupting the US.





+1000. For most of America, wages have stagnated, while housing, education and other things skyrocketed. But the richest got vastly more rich.

Goes to show, "trickle down economics" always was a bunch of BS. Nothing ever trickles down from the rich, their goblet just gets bigger.
Anonymous
Post 01/14/2024 23:40     Subject: Re:Was there ever a time when your average nine to fiver could afford the American Dream?
Anonymous wrote:My in laws could afford a colonial in McLean in the 60’s and 70’s with a single earner salary working for gov as gs12

That is about as middle income as you can get

Now you can’t touch McLean colonials for under 1.5 million. And that is not a gov gs12 single earner family

Demand outstrips supply , and we keep making it worse by importing millions of legal and illegal immigrants. It is insane.



Weird. I don't know many illegals competing to buy multimillion dollar homes in McLean.
Anonymous
Post 01/14/2024 23:37     Subject: Was there ever a time when your average nine to fiver could afford the American Dream?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Of course this was possible, OP. My dad was a fed. gov't. employee and my mom was a SAHM. They bought a home in Great Falls in the late 70s. The house cost $100,000 and was paid off by the mid-80s when my sibling and I started high school.

That would never happen today. I'm so worried for my own kids' futures.


I believe you but I'm also curious how many sq ft the house was, how many bedrooms & baths?

I grew up in a nice neighborhood on my dad's teacher salary in the 1970s, feeling middle class, but it was a 2 bedroom house and I shared a bedroom with 2 siblings and a bathroom with siblings and parents, so 5 of us using 1 bathroom.

So while I absolutely agree people have to spend more of their salary on housing today, I also think expectations of the type of home people want have greatly increased. How many middle class families in the DMV would be fine living in a house where 5 people shared one bathroom and 3 kids shared 1 bedroom?


I don't know the sq. footage of the house, but it was a traditional colonial - four bedrooms, 2 1/2 baths, almost two acres. Nothing fancy, but very solidly comfortable. That would never happen today.


True. But I bet your family couldn’t have afforded that much house in NYC during those same years on your dad’s salary, could they? DMV has become more desirable in the ensuing years. Not quite NYC desirable. But any time an area becomes a place lots of people want to live then it becomes more expensive. Population has risen tremendously in this area since the late 70s.
Anonymous
Post 01/14/2024 23:15     Subject: Was there ever a time when your average nine to fiver could afford the American Dream?
Anonymous wrote:Homer Simpson.

Owns a house and two cars. Has three kids and a stay-at-home wife. On a blue-collar salary.

He is unionized though.


https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/planet-money/id290783428?i=1000566040731
Anonymous
Post 01/14/2024 23:08     Subject: Was there ever a time when your average nine to fiver could afford the American Dream?
My parents were greatest generation. My dad graduated high school, was a Marine in WWII, came home and did a few semesters of college. He was a salesman, then a cost accountant. My folks bought a 3/2 ranch home, and added a pool. This is on a the salaries of my dad and my mom, who worked in a department stores sales clerk.

The also put me through college on that salary.

The 1 percenters have wrecked the economy. Not the immigrants. America is built on Immersive. It is the grifters like Trump and Musk who are bankrupting the US.