Anonymous wrote:I’ve had my doubts but I loved this article and curious what others think, is there such thing as true and unconditional among partners?

https://www.spiveyblog.com/posts/does-true-love-exist

I doubt if a true and unconditional love ever existed. When a person feels/claims to love someone, its usually based on their looks or personality or a mix AND there is a wish for it to be reciprocal and to materialize it, as in having a relationship or in marriage.

Anonymous wrote:I haven't read the whole article yet, though the opening intrigues me so I will.

But just by quick reply to your posited question; I am 53 now, I have seen through the window into dozens of marriages by nature of the work I do, and quite a few much closer by family and friendship connection.

No, there is no such thing as unconditional love - not between partners, nor between parents and children. Some grandparents come close, but many do not.

Animals love unconditionally.

The human mind, I believe, is too complex for unconditional love.

+1. And there shouldn’t be - it’s healthier for everyone this way.

Thanks for the article, OP. Interesting to think about... first sentence links to another article. Ive read both and agree that for some, love can endure.
I can also agree that we don't always end up with the love of our lives (though that doesn't disqualify their significance).

Some people here are quick to include children. For me this is a different kind of love-- a familial one. This article mostly discusses romantic/loving relationships between adults. Family love to me is unconditional while romantic love is passionate and that, in long-term relationships, love becomes a combination of the two.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I haven't read the whole article yet, though the opening intrigues me so I will.

But just by quick reply to your posited question; I am 53 now, I have seen through the window into dozens of marriages by nature of the work I do, and quite a few much closer by family and friendship connection.

No, there is no such thing as unconditional love - not between partners, nor between parents and children. Some grandparents come close, but many do not.

Animals love unconditionally.

The human mind, I believe, is too complex for unconditional love.

You discredit yourself when you anthropromorphasize. Animals do not possess human emotions.

Since when is love a human emotion? Decades of animal field research has established the loving bonds between animals in family groups - bond that last lifetimes.

Perhaps I don’t have the capacity to speak of the love between sperm whales in sperm whale language, but I have no question that it exists. It is the height of human arrogance to believe themselves the only species capable of love.

PS the word is anthropomorphize.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I haven't read the whole article yet, though the opening intrigues me so I will.

But just by quick reply to your posited question; I am 53 now, I have seen through the window into dozens of marriages by nature of the work I do, and quite a few much closer by family and friendship connection.

No, there is no such thing as unconditional love - not between partners, nor between parents and children. Some grandparents come close, but many do not.

Animals love unconditionally.

The human mind, I believe, is too complex for unconditional love.

You discredit yourself when you anthropromorphasize. Animals do not possess human emotions.

Since when is love a human emotion? Decades of animal field research has established the loving bonds between animals in family groups - bond that last lifetimes.

Perhaps I don’t have the capacity to speak of the love between sperm whales in sperm whale language, but I have no question that it exists. It is the height of human arrogance to believe themselves the only species capable of love.

Anonymous wrote:I think it exists between parents and young children whose very existence is dependent on that love. But as children get older and develop their own sense of self and seek independence I believe the relationship changes. I love my children but it is not unconditional. If they became white nationalists and Proud Boys that love would end.

I'd still love mine and would never give up trying to change their minds. I would never give up on my children. Ever.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Being a parent to a child who purposefully hurts you is one of the worst situations in life.

Being a child of a parent who purposefully hurts you is THE worst situation in life. You did not ask to be born, you had no choice in the matter, and for all of your existence you will have to live with the fact that your primary caregiver was your tormenter. Infinitely worse.

Yeah I’ve never experienced either one but obviously being the child receiving this treatment is worse.

I have experienced it and I can assure it is debilitating and the damge is experienced throughout ones life.

I think it exists between parents and young children whose very existence is dependent on that love. But as children get older and develop their own sense of self and seek independence I believe the relationship changes. I love my children but it is not unconditional. If they became white nationalists and Proud Boys that love would end.

Raymond Carver beautifully explores this question in almost all his writing.

Love, especially true love, is heartbreaking, yet still worthwhile.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I've never understood what unconditional means.

How can a person or dog or horse or any intelligent being love another being no matter WHAT they do?

I love my children unconditionally. There is no end to the measures I'd take to ensure their safety and well being. There is nothing they could do which would cause me to withdraw my love, support and presence from their lives. My dh and I have what I consider to be true love. We have been together happily, amicably, faithfully and lovingly for 34 years. Our marriage will end with death. I love him deeply, and he me, but not unconditionally.

Here we differ. There are things my children could do that would cause me to withdraw my support and presence from their lives. If they torment and torture other people, however much I might continue to love them in my heart, that love will be expressed through prayer for them, not presence and financial or other aid to them. If my son were a serial rapist or abuser of children I would not try to secure his release from prison.

same and same for spouse

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I've never understood what unconditional means.

How can a person or dog or horse or any intelligent being love another being no matter WHAT they do?

I love my children unconditionally. There is no end to the measures I'd take to ensure their safety and well being. There is nothing they could do which would cause me to withdraw my love, support and presence from their lives. My dh and I have what I consider to be true love. We have been together happily, amicably, faithfully and lovingly for 34 years. Our marriage will end with death. I love him deeply, and he me, but not unconditionally.

Here we differ. There are things my children could do that would cause me to withdraw my support and presence from their lives. If they torment and torture other people, however much I might continue to love them in my heart, that love will be expressed through prayer for them, not presence and financial or other aid to them. If my son were a serial rapist or abuser of children I would not try to secure his release from prison.

I find that loving my husband conditionally causes me to appreciate him much more than I did when I laboured under the misapprehension that it was possible to love him unconditionally. Unconditional love seems to be more concerned with "being" rather than "doing." I also distinguish between "feeling" love for someone and manifesting that love actively.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Being a parent to a child who purposefully hurts you is one of the worst situations in life.

Being a child of a parent who purposefully hurts you is THE worst situation in life. You did not ask to be born, you had no choice in the matter, and for all of your existence you will have to live with the fact that your primary caregiver was your tormenter. Infinitely worse.

Yeah I’ve never experienced either one but obviously being the child receiving this treatment is worse.

Anonymous wrote:
Being a parent to a child who purposefully hurts you is one of the worst situations in life.

Being a child of a parent who purposefully hurts you is THE worst situation in life. You did not ask to be born, you had no choice in the matter, and for all of your existence you will have to live with the fact that your primary caregiver was your tormenter. Infinitely worse.