Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My oldest graduated from Loiederman last year. I agree with PPs who have mixed feelings about the school, but I would also say I think middle school is the weak link in MCPS - I don't know that any middle school is fantastic. Our kid was out of bounds, if that matters. I will also say that our younger child had a MUCH, MUCH, MUCH worse experience at a different MCPS middle school.

Positives about Loiderman:
- Kid loved the block schedule and really misses it in high school. That schedule also meant being able to take three electives each year.
- Excellent experience with the language teacher.
- Wider range of electives than at our home middle school.
- A few really strong teachers made a big difference in our kid's middle school experience.
- Access to the DCC high schools - my kid was out of bounds and being a Loiederman student got them second round access to the DCC lottery. Very happy with their high school pick.

Negatives:
- The theater program is ridiculously competitive - hard to even get a spot in the crew. If the teacher who runs the theater program doesn't like your kid, then they're really not getting a spot.
- I got the sense that teachers were less happy as my kid's three years there went on. Lots of turnover, including a math teacher who quit mid-year and a very long pause in getting a long-term sub to take over the class.
- Admin didn't do a great job keeping parents in the loop about issues happening at school - fights that wound up meaning all kids were escorted between classes, behavior issues that meant changes in bathroom access, etc.

This is a good summary. It’s too bad the principal isn’t stronger. Many were excited to have her after the previous one left.

The block schedule and more electives is a bonus.

Surprised to hear any students actually liked block scheduling. Most complain as 90 minute classes are way too long for their attention spans in one subject. They generally can focus for about 30 of those. Once our school went back to 45 minute classes, everyone was much happier.

Mine don’t care either way. I liked it as they did not get homework in each class. There are benefits to both ways. The extra period was nice for an elective.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My oldest graduated from Loiederman last year. I agree with PPs who have mixed feelings about the school, but I would also say I think middle school is the weak link in MCPS - I don't know that any middle school is fantastic. Our kid was out of bounds, if that matters. I will also say that our younger child had a MUCH, MUCH, MUCH worse experience at a different MCPS middle school.

Positives about Loiderman:
- Kid loved the block schedule and really misses it in high school. That schedule also meant being able to take three electives each year.
- Excellent experience with the language teacher.
- Wider range of electives than at our home middle school.
- A few really strong teachers made a big difference in our kid's middle school experience.
- Access to the DCC high schools - my kid was out of bounds and being a Loiederman student got them second round access to the DCC lottery. Very happy with their high school pick.

Negatives:
- The theater program is ridiculously competitive - hard to even get a spot in the crew. If the teacher who runs the theater program doesn't like your kid, then they're really not getting a spot.
- I got the sense that teachers were less happy as my kid's three years there went on. Lots of turnover, including a math teacher who quit mid-year and a very long pause in getting a long-term sub to take over the class.
- Admin didn't do a great job keeping parents in the loop about issues happening at school - fights that wound up meaning all kids were escorted between classes, behavior issues that meant changes in bathroom access, etc.

This is a good summary. It’s too bad the principal isn’t stronger. Many were excited to have her after the previous one left.

The block schedule and more electives is a bonus.

Surprised to hear any students actually liked block scheduling. Most complain as 90 minute classes are way too long for their attention spans in one subject. They generally can focus for about 30 of those. Once our school went back to 45 minute classes, everyone was much happier.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Multiple kids left last year. Lots of staff turn over. Band/Orchestra teachers are not great.

Another new orch teacher this year. Great teachers at the elem feeders but not sure what’s going on in MS

I suspect it's the leadership. They got a new principal who everyone had high hopes for as she had been there for many years and very likable. But, several VPs and multiple staff left. Another orchestra teacher... thats a bad sign that the last one lasted a year.

Part of the music problem is the teachers. The other part is what another poster said about it not being test in so anyone can do the band or orchestra. They don't really do teaching with multiple instruments all in one class period in MS or HS so either a child has to be naturally talented and teach themselves or be in private lessons and/with private orchestra or other groups to really get good. The bands/orchestras that are good have kids from private lessons and the orchestras vs. a school being that good just because. We are another family who moved to the private music groups and the difference in quality is night and day.

Playing an instrument is a serious endeavor. It's not possible, at all, to be "good" at it if you do not have individual lessons. It's not like a sport or dance where you can mostly learn as a group and only need private coaching occasionally. Most music groups in schools absolutely suck because hardly any kid has private lessons. The wealthy neighborhoods have music groups that suck less because parents can afford to pay for private (individual) lessons.

My middle schooler plays the violin. Weekly private lessons at a school of music for a few years then $100/hr twice a week at a studio. She's been concertmaster of her youth orchestra. She's played every day, except a few days off for sickness and travel, for years. You can't replicate that in any school setting apart from a music conservatory.

So this idea of public magnets for certain skill sets definitely has its limits, especially when there is no talent selection and no requirement to train with professionals outside of school.

School arts programs can be a superb _part_ of the training of a young artist (in almost any arts discipline), but they generally simply can't be everything that kid needs if they want to pursue that art in college or as a career. That's not the fault of the school, the families, the district, the funding, the other students, the program, the curriculum, the teachers, or anything else. It's a question of format and time, neither of which can be 'remedied' in a conventional school environment, and probably doesn't need to be. School by definition has to be a lot more than a good place to pursue violin or dance or digital art, or it's not actually school - it's a conservatory or an institute. If arts programs in conventional school environments introduce students to new art forms they didn't encounter before, get beginners excited, build confidence and experience at the intermediate levels, and support advanced students in seeking bigger and bigger opportunities even when it takes them outside the classroom, then those teachers are doing more than their share and deserve our deep thanks.

- (Graduated) music major at a large university school of music

They are good for daily practice but there is only correction, not teaching of instruments. But, this is at any school not just loiderman. But, the band teacher is a huge weak link. Mcps doesn’t offer high levels of music do families have to got outside.

Anonymous wrote:My oldest graduated from Loiederman last year. I agree with PPs who have mixed feelings about the school, but I would also say I think middle school is the weak link in MCPS - I don't know that any middle school is fantastic. Our kid was out of bounds, if that matters. I will also say that our younger child had a MUCH, MUCH, MUCH worse experience at a different MCPS middle school.

Positives about Loiderman:
- Kid loved the block schedule and really misses it in high school. That schedule also meant being able to take three electives each year.
- Excellent experience with the language teacher.
- Wider range of electives than at our home middle school.
- A few really strong teachers made a big difference in our kid's middle school experience.
- Access to the DCC high schools - my kid was out of bounds and being a Loiederman student got them second round access to the DCC lottery. Very happy with their high school pick.

Negatives:
- The theater program is ridiculously competitive - hard to even get a spot in the crew. If the teacher who runs the theater program doesn't like your kid, then they're really not getting a spot.
- I got the sense that teachers were less happy as my kid's three years there went on. Lots of turnover, including a math teacher who quit mid-year and a very long pause in getting a long-term sub to take over the class.
- Admin didn't do a great job keeping parents in the loop about issues happening at school - fights that wound up meaning all kids were escorted between classes, behavior issues that meant changes in bathroom access, etc.

This is a good summary. It’s too bad the principal isn’t stronger. Many were excited to have her after the previous one left.

The block schedule and more electives is a bonus.

My oldest graduated from Loiederman last year. I agree with PPs who have mixed feelings about the school, but I would also say I think middle school is the weak link in MCPS - I don't know that any middle school is fantastic. Our kid was out of bounds, if that matters. I will also say that our younger child had a MUCH, MUCH, MUCH worse experience at a different MCPS middle school.

Positives about Loiderman:
- Kid loved the block schedule and really misses it in high school. That schedule also meant being able to take three electives each year.
- Excellent experience with the language teacher.
- Wider range of electives than at our home middle school.
- A few really strong teachers made a big difference in our kid's middle school experience.
- Access to the DCC high schools - my kid was out of bounds and being a Loiederman student got them second round access to the DCC lottery. Very happy with their high school pick.

Negatives:
- The theater program is ridiculously competitive - hard to even get a spot in the crew. If the teacher who runs the theater program doesn't like your kid, then they're really not getting a spot.
- I got the sense that teachers were less happy as my kid's three years there went on. Lots of turnover, including a math teacher who quit mid-year and a very long pause in getting a long-term sub to take over the class.
- Admin didn't do a great job keeping parents in the loop about issues happening at school - fights that wound up meaning all kids were escorted between classes, behavior issues that meant changes in bathroom access, etc.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Multiple kids left last year. Lots of staff turn over. Band/Orchestra teachers are not great.

Another new orch teacher this year. Great teachers at the elem feeders but not sure what’s going on in MS

I suspect it's the leadership. They got a new principal who everyone had high hopes for as she had been there for many years and very likable. But, several VPs and multiple staff left. Another orchestra teacher... thats a bad sign that the last one lasted a year.

Part of the music problem is the teachers. The other part is what another poster said about it not being test in so anyone can do the band or orchestra. They don't really do teaching with multiple instruments all in one class period in MS or HS so either a child has to be naturally talented and teach themselves or be in private lessons and/with private orchestra or other groups to really get good. The bands/orchestras that are good have kids from private lessons and the orchestras vs. a school being that good just because. We are another family who moved to the private music groups and the difference in quality is night and day.

Playing an instrument is a serious endeavor. It's not possible, at all, to be "good" at it if you do not have individual lessons. It's not like a sport or dance where you can mostly learn as a group and only need private coaching occasionally. Most music groups in schools absolutely suck because hardly any kid has private lessons. The wealthy neighborhoods have music groups that suck less because parents can afford to pay for private (individual) lessons.

My middle schooler plays the violin. Weekly private lessons at a school of music for a few years then $100/hr twice a week at a studio. She's been concertmaster of her youth orchestra. She's played every day, except a few days off for sickness and travel, for years. You can't replicate that in any school setting apart from a music conservatory.

So this idea of public magnets for certain skill sets definitely has its limits, especially when there is no talent selection and no requirement to train with professionals outside of school.

School arts programs can be a superb _part_ of the training of a young artist (in almost any arts discipline), but they generally simply can't be everything that kid needs if they want to pursue that art in college or as a career. That's not the fault of the school, the families, the district, the funding, the other students, the program, the curriculum, the teachers, or anything else. It's a question of format and time, neither of which can be 'remedied' in a conventional school environment, and probably doesn't need to be. School by definition has to be a lot more than a good place to pursue violin or dance or digital art, or it's not actually school - it's a conservatory or an institute. If arts programs in conventional school environments introduce students to new art forms they didn't encounter before, get beginners excited, build confidence and experience at the intermediate levels, and support advanced students in seeking bigger and bigger opportunities even when it takes them outside the classroom, then those teachers are doing more than their share and deserve our deep thanks.

- (Graduated) music major at a large university school of music

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Most middle school kids will tell you the bathrooms are scary…particularly for boys.

I wouldn’t fight traffic twice a day to send my kid to Loiderman knowing that the completely unremarkable “arts” program is really just a carrot to get more affluent (usually white and Asian) kids to willingly go to school in a poor/bad/high crime neighborhood.

The neighborhood is fine. Many of us live in these neighborhoods you'd never go into with no issues. The issue is that the program isn't anything special or high level for those who need a higher level.

You live in the immediate neighborhood or another part of 20906, pp?

I grew up in 20906…

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I just came on here to ask the same thing, except that our home MS is Banneker. My kid is so excited, me a little less so after what I read here. WWYD?

What specifically is your child excited about? I have a kid at Banneker now, and while it’s been fine in many ways, the instrumental music and performing arts opportunities aren’t great. There isn’t a school play or drama club, for example. The band program is okay, but the orchestra is small and this year had to combine all levels into one class, which is frustrating for more advanced students. I hear good things about the choir. I’d suggest comparing class offerings and extracurriculars at the two schools to help make your decision,

Very few schools have "great" programs and come MS, they don't teach instruments generally like they do in ES. So, kids have to be in private lessons to learn the instruments. You are much better off doing a private orchestra if you can make it work. Its really frustrating and this is at most schools with the more advanced kids, as they are with kids who aren't very good but arrogant enough to think they are and its a hot mess.

That last is very true. Kids think they're "advanced" because they've done private lessons for a few years. Hmm, no. Not every private teacher is worth their fee, and intelligent progression with a serious teacher is more important than years of play. There is an immensely large range of skill at that age, and I can't tell you how many parents think their kids are wonderful players when they're really not. It's the same in sports, same in dance, the same everywhere: people who are ignorant tend to believe they know more than they do, and people who have progressed further and are more aware of the universe of possibles tend to reflect on their limitations instead.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Multiple kids left last year. Lots of staff turn over. Band/Orchestra teachers are not great.

Another new orch teacher this year. Great teachers at the elem feeders but not sure what’s going on in MS

I suspect it's the leadership. They got a new principal who everyone had high hopes for as she had been there for many years and very likable. But, several VPs and multiple staff left. Another orchestra teacher... thats a bad sign that the last one lasted a year.

Part of the music problem is the teachers. The other part is what another poster said about it not being test in so anyone can do the band or orchestra. They don't really do teaching with multiple instruments all in one class period in MS or HS so either a child has to be naturally talented and teach themselves or be in private lessons and/with private orchestra or other groups to really get good. The bands/orchestras that are good have kids from private lessons and the orchestras vs. a school being that good just because. We are another family who moved to the private music groups and the difference in quality is night and day.

Playing an instrument is a serious endeavor. It's not possible, at all, to be "good" at it if you do not have individual lessons. It's not like a sport or dance where you can mostly learn as a group and only need private coaching occasionally. Most music groups in schools absolutely suck because hardly any kid has private lessons. The wealthy neighborhoods have music groups that suck less because parents can afford to pay for private (individual) lessons.

My middle schooler plays the violin. Weekly private lessons at a school of music for a few years then $100/hr twice a week at a studio. She's been concertmaster of her youth orchestra. She's played every day, except a few days off for sickness and travel, for years. You can't replicate that in any school setting apart from a music conservatory.

So this idea of public magnets for certain skill sets definitely has its limits, especially when there is no talent selection and no requirement to train with professionals outside of school.

Oh my…us poor parents who have kids attending what you consider bad have our kids in private lessons and the same private orchestra as you do. You could replicate it with the right teacher and students. For sports and dance, many kids also do outside or have private lessons too. Don’t let your ego get in the way. Your child is in middle school. For as good as she is there is always someone better.

The former orchestra teacher is part of mcyo. She left for another school.

You're in the minority if you pay for private lessons, pay for MCYO and also self-identify as poor. Also, group music lessons are not the same as individual music lessons, and cannot take their place, ever - the skills learned are not the same. You need both. You desperately want to take offense at my post, so go ahead, but I've have a lot of experience (this middle schooler is my youngest and my other kids are in college), and I know what I'm talking about.

DC is in grade 6, so we're new to LMS this year. The general atmosphere seems pretty consistent with other middle schools (yes, there are fights; yes, there is some immature and self-destructive behavior), but I feel that effort is made to address problems. The PTSA is in a rebuilding phase, but yes, they are trying.
We're impressed with DC's teachers: conferences, email communications, generalized contacts, assignment feedbacks, etc. have all been really good. DC has been well supported inside and outside the classroom, loves the arts program, and is enjoying chances to engage both during and after school, at both beginner and more advanced levels. DC has also made friends, made progress in their various arts skills, feels loyal to the school, and is glad and happy to be there.

It's important to acknowledge, though, that for those whose kids are already advanced and super-serious in a given art form, no school anywhere (short of something like the old show "Fame"!) will be able to provide the full, wraparound training that those kids need. They will have to be engaged in other institutions, working with private teachers, performing in independent environments, taking auditions, and the like. That doesn't mean LMS isn't doing its job, or that a super-serious kid can't still learn something and contribute in an area in which they are more experienced than their peers. Or the super-serious kid can opt out of the school version of that particular art form, and no harm done. (Fwiw, there are plenty of youth orchestras, youth sports teams, and other organizations that require their members to also be involved at their own schools, too.)

It's also important to realistically respect the fact that LMS is a whole-school arts magnet, a consortium option, and a neighborhood middle school all at the same time. That means that different kids are there for different reasons: some of them just don't want computer science or aerospace engineering, some of them live nearby, some of them tried for a different lottery placement and didn't get it, some of them knew friends who were happy there and decided to give it a try regardless of subject areas or specializations, some of them super-ultra want to study one very specific thing. The fact that my DC has generally found the social environment to be by and large accepting is, I think, a credit to the community there.

Is it perfect? No, of course not. But are we glad we're there right now? Yes.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I just came on here to ask the same thing, except that our home MS is Banneker. My kid is so excited, me a little less so after what I read here. WWYD?

What specifically is your child excited about? I have a kid at Banneker now, and while it’s been fine in many ways, the instrumental music and performing arts opportunities aren’t great. There isn’t a school play or drama club, for example. The band program is okay, but the orchestra is small and this year had to combine all levels into one class, which is frustrating for more advanced students. I hear good things about the choir. I’d suggest comparing class offerings and extracurriculars at the two schools to help make your decision,

Very few schools have "great" programs and come MS, they don't teach instruments generally like they do in ES. So, kids have to be in private lessons to learn the instruments. You are much better off doing a private orchestra if you can make it work. Its really frustrating and this is at most schools with the more advanced kids, as they are with kids who aren't very good but arrogant enough to think they are and its a hot mess.

Anonymous wrote:DC graduated LMS last year LMS needs a lot of support. The orchestra teacher last year was good but it seemed like he was overwhelmed. The drama dept used to do two plays a year- same as every other MCPS school but they had to reject over 100 kids because there weren’t enough parts on cast or crew. So mostly the 8th graders (and some good 7th graders) were the ones in the plays. However, I think they are trying to give sixth graders more opportunities to performs. The PTSA doesn’t get enough people to help do all the things/extracurriculars that could really help the school. My DC said that overall they enjoyed the experience (as much as one can enjoy MS) but probably wouldn’t go there again knowing what they know now.

There PTSA a few years ago was nasty and unwelcoming and didn't do much... that's why they are struggling now as everyone checked out from the PTSA and some of the folks, even last year were very unwelcoming.

Anonymous wrote:Most middle school kids will tell you the bathrooms are scary…particularly for boys.

I wouldn’t fight traffic twice a day to send my kid to Loiderman knowing that the completely unremarkable “arts” program is really just a carrot to get more affluent (usually white and Asian) kids to willingly go to school in a poor/bad/high crime neighborhood.

The neighborhood is fine. Many of us live in these neighborhoods you'd never go into with no issues. The issue is that the program isn't anything special or high level for those who need a higher level.

DC graduated LMS last year LMS needs a lot of support. The orchestra teacher last year was good but it seemed like he was overwhelmed. The drama dept used to do two plays a year- same as every other MCPS school but they had to reject over 100 kids because there weren’t enough parts on cast or crew. So mostly the 8th graders (and some good 7th graders) were the ones in the plays. However, I think they are trying to give sixth graders more opportunities to performs. The PTSA doesn’t get enough people to help do all the things/extracurriculars that could really help the school. My DC said that overall they enjoyed the experience (as much as one can enjoy MS) but probably wouldn’t go there again knowing what they know now.

Most middle school kids will tell you the bathrooms are scary…particularly for boys.

I wouldn’t fight traffic twice a day to send my kid to Loiderman knowing that the completely unremarkable “arts” program is really just a carrot to get more affluent (usually white and Asian) kids to willingly go to school in a poor/bad/high crime neighborhood.