Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here's my question:

A lot of FA is based on life choices and the system doesn't factor that in. You make x so you qualify for y. Life choices are too hard to account for. We could have saved but instead we put in a pool one summer and had that tummy tuck the next and paid 50k to a college counselor. But college will never know.

But now we're starting to make judgements. You had three kids? That was your decision.

Okay. But if we're dong this, why not really do this.

Why use the IRS retrieval took to pull one base year of data. They could look back a decade. You're making 300k now, but you were making 90k til 2 years ago. Or you're making 90k now - hmm, that's interesting because you were making 600k as a dentist until you somehow decided to pay yourself 90k this one base year. Or you've been making 400k for the last 15 years and have no 529? We can judge that.

I think with better data, this could all be easier, fairer, and we could know what the price would be a lot earlier.

Because the entire point of the FASFA is to help kids who for whatever reason, come from less advantaged homes. Regardless of if their parents made horrible decisions like having 6 kids with multiple different dead-beat Dads and the Mom blows everything she has on drugs. Or if the family making 100k a year in a LCOL area decides to go to Europe every year rather than stick that money in a 529.

It will never be fair, just like admissions aren’t fair. The goal has never been to be fair though.

Ironic that you mention multiple kids as a reason that kids might need help given the current revisions to FAFSA

I meant it as a way to show parental irresponsibility. Because that’s what the OP and many PP seem to want to take into account.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here's my question:

A lot of FA is based on life choices and the system doesn't factor that in. You make x so you qualify for y. Life choices are too hard to account for. We could have saved but instead we put in a pool one summer and had that tummy tuck the next and paid 50k to a college counselor. But college will never know.

But now we're starting to make judgements. You had three kids? That was your decision.

Okay. But if we're dong this, why not really do this.

Why use the IRS retrieval took to pull one base year of data. They could look back a decade. You're making 300k now, but you were making 90k til 2 years ago. Or you're making 90k now - hmm, that's interesting because you were making 600k as a dentist until you somehow decided to pay yourself 90k this one base year. Or you've been making 400k for the last 15 years and have no 529? We can judge that.

I think with better data, this could all be easier, fairer, and we could know what the price would be a lot earlier.

Because the entire point of the FASFA is to help kids who for whatever reason, come from less advantaged homes. Regardless of if their parents made horrible decisions like having 6 kids with multiple different dead-beat Dads and the Mom blows everything she has on drugs. Or if the family making 100k a year in a LCOL area decides to go to Europe every year rather than stick that money in a 529.

It will never be fair, just like admissions aren’t fair. The goal has never been to be fair though.

She’s talking css which is 100% not about helping poor kids w parents who make poor decisions

Does the css use an IRS retreival tool?

The CSS is informed by the information on the FAFSA which uses the IRS retrieval tool.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here's my question:

A lot of FA is based on life choices and the system doesn't factor that in. You make x so you qualify for y. Life choices are too hard to account for. We could have saved but instead we put in a pool one summer and had that tummy tuck the next and paid 50k to a college counselor. But college will never know.

But now we're starting to make judgements. You had three kids? That was your decision.

Okay. But if we're dong this, why not really do this.

Why use the IRS retrieval took to pull one base year of data. They could look back a decade. You're making 300k now, but you were making 90k til 2 years ago. Or you're making 90k now - hmm, that's interesting because you were making 600k as a dentist until you somehow decided to pay yourself 90k this one base year. Or you've been making 400k for the last 15 years and have no 529? We can judge that.

I think with better data, this could all be easier, fairer, and we could know what the price would be a lot earlier.

Because the entire point of the FASFA is to help kids who for whatever reason, come from less advantaged homes. Regardless of if their parents made horrible decisions like having 6 kids with multiple different dead-beat Dads and the Mom blows everything she has on drugs. Or if the family making 100k a year in a LCOL area decides to go to Europe every year rather than stick that money in a 529.

It will never be fair, just like admissions aren’t fair. The goal has never been to be fair though.

She’s talking css which is 100% not about helping poor kids w parents who make poor decisions

Does the css use an IRS retreival tool?

Anonymous wrote:I agree OP.

Many years ago (when I was in my early 20s) I was visiting with my grandparents. They were good friends with their next door neighbors, who had teenage kids. I noticed that the neighbors had recently built a beautiful new addition on their home. My grandparents told me that the neighbors did that because they needed to spend their money so their kids would qualify for more financial aid for college.
What?!?!
Is that really a "thing?"

Yes--there's a whole industry of folks who guide UMC parents on legal ways to hide their assets for financial aid purposes. I don't know how many people do it, but it's a thing. People reduce their income in the year in question, they pay off their mortgage, they have the grandparents contribute to the 529 plan instead of the parents, they buy a new car right before they report their assets etc. In some ways it could pay off, but it's pretty risky-- honestly you have to be right on the cusp, attending a private school, and willing to have your kid take on the maximum amount of federal loans, and not every school fulfills all need. So people spend all their money trying to get financial aid and then get loans and have to cough up the money anyway. For some percent it works out, I guess. But each school's CSS has ways of ferreting out the tricks too.
In general, it makes sense to time big purchases before you report assets just in case--so if you need a new car, buy it before your report your savings rather than after. But I don't think it usually makes sense in the end to make a purchase you wouldn't otherwise make in hopes you'll get financial aid. There's just too much uncertainty around that IMO.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here's my question:

A lot of FA is based on life choices and the system doesn't factor that in. You make x so you qualify for y. Life choices are too hard to account for. We could have saved but instead we put in a pool one summer and had that tummy tuck the next and paid 50k to a college counselor. But college will never know.

But now we're starting to make judgements. You had three kids? That was your decision.

Okay. But if we're dong this, why not really do this.

Why use the IRS retrieval took to pull one base year of data. They could look back a decade. You're making 300k now, but you were making 90k til 2 years ago. Or you're making 90k now - hmm, that's interesting because you were making 600k as a dentist until you somehow decided to pay yourself 90k this one base year. Or you've been making 400k for the last 15 years and have no 529? We can judge that.

I think with better data, this could all be easier, fairer, and we could know what the price would be a lot earlier.

Because the entire point of the FASFA is to help kids who for whatever reason, come from less advantaged homes. Regardless of if their parents made horrible decisions like having 6 kids with multiple different dead-beat Dads and the Mom blows everything she has on drugs. Or if the family making 100k a year in a LCOL area decides to go to Europe every year rather than stick that money in a 529.

It will never be fair, just like admissions aren’t fair. The goal has never been to be fair though.

She’s talking css which is 100% not about helping poor kids w parents who make poor decisions

+1

Also agree

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I said something similar because our income (and COL) dramatically increased right when college started. I was arguing that we were judged by our current income and not the 15 years prior that we could save less. I was dragged for “whining” that our situation improved. This site is full of crazy a-holes.

Yeah I bet you wanted to be judged on the money you used to make and not the money you make right now.

I’ll be sure to tell NYU I want to send my 2003 tax return from when I worked in an ice cream store and not the one from 2023 where I work at a Hedge Fund.

So unfair that people want to judge me on what I actually have instead of conditions that don’t exist anymore!!! The nerve of people!!!!

No, a-hole, I want to be judged in the whole picture. Sorry that’s too reasonable a take for you to consider.

Schools aren’t stupid. You are not going to dollar cost average your way into aid.

You couldn’t save? No problem, borrow or pay out of cash flow. PLUS loans available for all in any amount you like.

(Some) CSS schools don’t ask about home equity because they are just curious.

Anonymous wrote:I said something similar because our income (and COL) dramatically increased right when college started. I was arguing that we were judged by our current income and not the 15 years prior that we could save less. I was dragged for “whining” that our situation improved. This site is full of crazy a-holes.

+1 Our increase in income coincided with paying for elder care for my DH’s mom, who had a stroke, which meant we could not save for college right away. Sure, we made choices (i.e., we could have forgone paying for her care, I guess), but context matters. Why stop at IRS? Why not grant colleges access to travel databases to see who goes to Europe? Luxury store sales to see who is buying Luis Vuitton?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Stop wasting valuable brainpower on trying to catch “cheaters” that the schools themselves don’t even care that much about.

+1. The FAFSA is a snapshot, that's it. It spits out a number but that's not the end of the story, and it doesn't hand any one aid unless they are Pell eligible.

OP, do you realize how low the threshold is for Pell?

Do you know what the maximum Pell Grant actually is?

The SAI (formerly EFC) generated by the FAFSA is also used by schools to determine institutional awards--not just federal awards. So if you don't get a Pell grant, you might still get a College X grant if the total cost of attendance is above your expected contribution. This matters most with OOS and private schools (the latter which also often use the CSS to get a better picture of your finances).

I agree OP.

Many years ago (when I was in my early 20s) I was visiting with my grandparents. They were good friends with their next door neighbors, who had teenage kids. I noticed that the neighbors had recently built a beautiful new addition on their home. My grandparents told me that the neighbors did that because they needed to spend their money so their kids would qualify for more financial aid for college.
What?!?!
Is that really a "thing?"

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I said something similar because our income (and COL) dramatically increased right when college started. I was arguing that we were judged by our current income and not the 15 years prior that we could save less. I was dragged for “whining” that our situation improved. This site is full of crazy a-holes.

Yeah I bet you wanted to be judged on the money you used to make and not the money you make right now.

I’ll be sure to tell NYU I want to send my 2003 tax return from when I worked in an ice cream store and not the one from 2023 where I work at a Hedge Fund.

So unfair that people want to judge me on what I actually have instead of conditions that don’t exist anymore!!! The nerve of people!!!!

No, a-hole, I want to be judged in the whole picture. Sorry that’s too reasonable a take for you to consider.

Anonymous wrote:I said something similar because our income (and COL) dramatically increased right when college started. I was arguing that we were judged by our current income and not the 15 years prior that we could save less. I was dragged for “whining” that our situation improved. This site is full of crazy a-holes.

Yeah I bet you wanted to be judged on the money you used to make and not the money you make right now.

I’ll be sure to tell NYU I want to send my 2003 tax return from when I worked in an ice cream store and not the one from 2023 where I work at a Hedge Fund.

So unfair that people want to judge me on what I actually have instead of conditions that don’t exist anymore!!! The nerve of people!!!!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here's my question:

A lot of FA is based on life choices and the system doesn't factor that in. You make x so you qualify for y. Life choices are too hard to account for. We could have saved but instead we put in a pool one summer and had that tummy tuck the next and paid 50k to a college counselor. But college will never know.

But now we're starting to make judgements. You had three kids? That was your decision.

Okay. But if we're dong this, why not really do this.

Why use the IRS retrieval took to pull one base year of data. They could look back a decade. You're making 300k now, but you were making 90k til 2 years ago. Or you're making 90k now - hmm, that's interesting because you were making 600k as a dentist until you somehow decided to pay yourself 90k this one base year. Or you've been making 400k for the last 15 years and have no 529? We can judge that.

I think with better data, this could all be easier, fairer, and we could know what the price would be a lot earlier.

Because the entire point of the FASFA is to help kids who for whatever reason, come from less advantaged homes. Regardless of if their parents made horrible decisions like having 6 kids with multiple different dead-beat Dads and the Mom blows everything she has on drugs. Or if the family making 100k a year in a LCOL area decides to go to Europe every year rather than stick that money in a 529.

It will never be fair, just like admissions aren’t fair. The goal has never been to be fair though.

Ironic that you mention multiple kids as a reason that kids might need help given the current revisions to FAFSA

What a coincidence, everything PP does is good and should be rewarded and everything the poor irresponsible boogeyman does is evil and should be punished.

Nobody is punished for saving, they have the money to spend. It’s their choice whether to spend it wisely or not. It’s also their choice on whether to send their kid to the $80k school or the $30k school.

The kid in the house with the irresponsible parents actually doesn’t have much choice.

He can borrow a ton of money. He can go where they give him a ton of money. He can join the military and get GI Bill. He can be a lot less picky about schools and options, other people are deciding how much money he gets. He has to hope his parents remember to fill out the FAFSA and do it right or he doesn’t get anything at all.

Crack Moms aren’t actually all that good with paperwork. People who are crazy spendthrifts in one area tend to not be so smart when it comes to figuring out college plans. The kids often fail at figuring it out.

I said something similar because our income (and COL) dramatically increased right when college started. I was arguing that we were judged by our current income and not the 15 years prior that we could save less. I was dragged for “whining” that our situation improved. This site is full of crazy a-holes.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here's my question:

A lot of FA is based on life choices and the system doesn't factor that in. You make x so you qualify for y. Life choices are too hard to account for. We could have saved but instead we put in a pool one summer and had that tummy tuck the next and paid 50k to a college counselor. But college will never know.

But now we're starting to make judgements. You had three kids? That was your decision.

Okay. But if we're dong this, why not really do this.

Why use the IRS retrieval took to pull one base year of data. They could look back a decade. You're making 300k now, but you were making 90k til 2 years ago. Or you're making 90k now - hmm, that's interesting because you were making 600k as a dentist until you somehow decided to pay yourself 90k this one base year. Or you've been making 400k for the last 15 years and have no 529? We can judge that.

I think with better data, this could all be easier, fairer, and we could know what the price would be a lot earlier.

Because the entire point of the FASFA is to help kids who for whatever reason, come from less advantaged homes. Regardless of if their parents made horrible decisions like having 6 kids with multiple different dead-beat Dads and the Mom blows everything she has on drugs. Or if the family making 100k a year in a LCOL area decides to go to Europe every year rather than stick that money in a 529.

It will never be fair, just like admissions aren’t fair. The goal has never been to be fair though.

Ironic that you mention multiple kids as a reason that kids might need help given the current revisions to FAFSA