My son did not like Penn, but he did really like Columbia.
Ultimately he loved Northwestern and he did ED and got in.

Anonymous wrote:Both are good schools.

I would not pay for my DC to attend ColumbiaU, but *only* because the Columbia campus is surrounded by unsafe areas of NYC. Very unlucky if one’s car were to get a flat tire in that part of NYC.

The area around Penn is not ideal from a safety perspective, but it is visibly safer than just outside Columbia. This is partly because Penn is buying up adjacent off-campus land and redeveloping it, which pushes some of the violent crime a few blocks further away.

The Upper West Side, which is south of Morningside Heights, is not an unsafe area of NYC, and there's a very steep park between Morningside Heights and increasingly gentrified Harlem. I never felt unsafe in Morningside Heights, because there were always so many people around. If you got a flat tire in Morningside Heights, you'd be just fine.

Can't really speak to Penn, other than to know that in general NYC has fared much better over the years than Philadelphia.

Anonymous wrote:Both are good schools.

I would not pay for my DC to attend ColumbiaU, but *only* because the Columbia campus is surrounded by unsafe areas of NYC. Very unlucky if one’s car were to get a flat tire in that part of NYC.

The area around Penn is not ideal from a safety perspective, but it is visibly safer than just outside Columbia. This is partly because Penn is buying up adjacent off-campus land and redeveloping it, which pushes some of the violent crime a few blocks further away.

This backhanded compliment makes Penn’s surroundings sound much more dangerous than they are.

Both are good schools.

I would not pay for my DC to attend ColumbiaU, but *only* because the Columbia campus is surrounded by unsafe areas of NYC. Very unlucky if one’s car were to get a flat tire in that part of NYC.

The area around Penn is not ideal from a safety perspective, but it is visibly safer than just outside Columbia. This is partly because Penn is buying up adjacent off-campus land and redeveloping it, which pushes some of the violent crime a few blocks further away.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Toured both. Personally, didn't like either. Neither did the kid.

Really wanted to like Columbia for the Core. The reality is its not a great campus. Bunch of stressed out Asian kids smoking cigarettes outside of every dorm. Did not seem like a happy campus. Seemed very stressful and miserable.

Penn wasn't much better. Nice campus though. Genuinely liked it. But Wharton, Wharton, Wharton.

And if Wall Street isn't the ambition, not quite sure what the point of Penn is.

Disagree. UPenn > Columbia
Not even close. Columbia is a depressing spot insulated in Morningside Heights.
UPenn is a vibrant community of social people, and much more than Wharton and Wall Street!

UPenn is filled to the brim with hyper-competitive strivers. If OP is looking for a kind student body, that is not the place to look. Neither is Columbia, though it is somewhat better and more diverse culturally in general.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Your kid sounds like an ideal top LAC candidate.

They do like the LAC vibe but feel like many aren't as strong in STEM and might prefer a city / city adjacent campus (though that isn't a total must have)

I’d look into Harvey Mudd, Macalester, Swarthmore, and Reed.

PP here - I don’t think of Penn and Columbia students as “down to earth and kind”. In fact, I think I’ve only met one Penn alum who was “down to earth and kind”, they seem to be completely opposite of that.

+1

Same for most Ivies

This. Why my super high stats kid is focusing on SLACs not Ivies. I attended an Ivy, and it was too cutthroat and pre-professional for a kid like him.

Anonymous wrote:Toured both. Personally, didn't like either. Neither did the kid.

Really wanted to like Columbia for the Core. The reality is its not a great campus. Bunch of stressed out Asian kids smoking cigarettes outside of every dorm. Did not seem like a happy campus. Seemed very stressful and miserable.

Penn wasn't much better. Nice campus though. Genuinely liked it. But Wharton, Wharton, Wharton.

And if Wall Street isn't the ambition, not quite sure what the point of Penn is.

If PP doesn't like stressed out Asians or Jews, the place to be is Harvard. It's known for anti-Asian and antisemitism. Harvard will be a good place to be.

Anonymous wrote:Toured both. Personally, didn't like either. Neither did the kid.

Really wanted to like Columbia for the Core. The reality is its not a great campus. Bunch of stressed out Asian kids smoking cigarettes outside of every dorm. Did not seem like a happy campus. Seemed very stressful and miserable.

Penn wasn't much better. Nice campus though. Genuinely liked it. But Wharton, Wharton, Wharton.

And if Wall Street isn't the ambition, not quite sure what the point of Penn is.

Disagree. UPenn > Columbia
Not even close. Columbia is a depressing spot insulated in Morningside Heights.
UPenn is a vibrant community of social people, and much more than Wharton and Wall Street!

Pomona is a top LAC strong in STEM-inventor of CRISPR studied Chemistry there. You have the 5C’s too to cross enroll with Harvey Mudd. Second Carleton and Swarthmore for STEM also.

Toured both. Personally, didn't like either. Neither did the kid.

Really wanted to like Columbia for the Core. The reality is its not a great campus. Bunch of stressed out Asian kids smoking cigarettes outside of every dorm. Did not seem like a happy campus. Seemed very stressful and miserable.

Penn wasn't much better. Nice campus though. Genuinely liked it. But Wharton, Wharton, Wharton.

And if Wall Street isn't the ambition, not quite sure what the point of Penn is.

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Your kid sounds like an ideal top LAC candidate.

They do like the LAC vibe but feel like many aren't as strong in STEM and might prefer a city / city adjacent campus (though that isn't a total must have)

They need to do more research!

Top producers of Chemistry Ph.D.s, per capita:

1. Carleton (LAC)
2. Kalamazoo (LAC)
3. Reed (LAC)
4. Cal Tech
5. Wabash (LAC)
6. Allegheny (LAC)
7. College of Wooster (LAC)
8. Franklin & Marshall (LAC)
9. Grinnell (LAC)
10. Haverford (LAC)

Top producers of Physics Ph.D.s, per capita:

1. Cal Tech
2. Reed (LAC)
3. Swarthmore (LAC)
4. Lawrence (LAC)
5. Carleton (LAC)
6. Haverford (LAC)
7. Williams (LAC)
8. MIT
9. CO School of Mines
10. Grinnell (LAC)

https://www.collegetransitions.com/infographics/top-feeders-phd-programs

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Your kid sounds like an ideal top LAC candidate.

They do like the LAC vibe but feel like many aren't as strong in STEM and might prefer a city / city adjacent campus (though that isn't a total must have)

I’d look into Harvey Mudd, Macalester, Swarthmore, and Reed.

PP here - I don’t think of Penn and Columbia students as “down to earth and kind”. In fact, I think I’ve only met one Penn alum who was “down to earth and kind”, they seem to be completely opposite of that.

+1

Same for most Ivies

Anonymous wrote:UPenn over Columbia
Give Yale a look as well as Harvey Mudd

+1. Columbia students sit side by side with older students from the School of General Studies. Thos contributes to low morale among students.

Anonymous wrote:Tour safety schools instead

Yes - we have done a few more likely schools already

Tour safety schools instead