Anonymous wrote:Debate is good.

Winning anything where the tournaments are known quantities

Has to be national level, not county level. My DC did county level all 4 years. Super high stats (and I mean super high), rejected at T15.

Think Nathan Chen...

Anonymous wrote:National finalist of major STEM competitions (think USAMO, USAPHO, USABO, etc)
ISEF, STS finalist
First author pub in peer-reviewed journals
National finalist of major art/writing competitions
Accepted to prestigious summer programs (RSI, SSP, TASP, etc)

What are those?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Caring about something — actually, truly caring, and letting that sense of care lead. It’s hard to define exactly, bc the specific path depends on the alchemy between the kid, that thing they care about, and the need/opportunity/moment.

But it begins with caring, and AOs know it when they see it.

Eh. Caring about something is not going to get you there. Would it help if the something was video games, socializing, or beauty pageants? Deep interest or desire in an activity is not how it begins. I know many kids who have continued a long term activity solely for college admissions purposes: scouts, crew, etc. you think those kids look less committed to the same activity than peers who do it next to them but love it? They don’t.

Kid one: hates scouting, wanted to drop it 3 years ago but parent said no, sticks with it and puts it on her college app looks just as committed as

Kid 2: loves scouting, never considered stopping, puts it on her college app, looking just as committed as kid 2.

College counsellor at our high school says there really is pretty big difference between the kids who stick with an activity. They don’t like “for college“ and the kids who cared deeply and lean in because they love it. The two activities will obviously look the same as a line item in the common app, butpersonal statements and supplemental essays are where kids can really colour in between the lines and let someone know who they are, what they care about, and why.

DP. The college counselor is wrong. There are plenty of passionate kids who cannot articulate their emotions in a personal essay. There are plenty of bored kids who have their essays massaged into articulate and passionate writing by someone else.

Debate is good.

Winning anything where the tournaments are known quantities

Anonymous wrote:National finalist of major STEM competitions (think USAMO, USAPHO, USABO, etc)
ISEF, STS finalist
First author pub in peer-reviewed journals
National finalist of major art/writing competitions
Accepted to prestigious summer programs (RSI, SSP, TASP, etc)

+1

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Well, sure a kid can fake caring about something, and maybe it will even work. Alternatively, they could actually care, and follow where it leads them.

One of those is a route to meaning and purpose, which nearly every thinker since the days of Aristotle has suggested is the path to a good life. One of those might fake an AO.

I don’t think the discussion was about the advisement whether to fake an interest in something. The issue is whether true interest v fake interest can differentiated by AOs. I say it can’t for the most part.

Given that most frontline application readers are 20-something grads that stayed in their college to work in their admissions office... I agree, sadly.

You know the type: American, some with a typical study abroad experience (meaning they learned nothing), replete with stereotypes about the world, usually liberal with liberal values and apt to fall for liberal buzzwords and activities.

The most obvious attempts to lie will be detected, but the sneaky ones won't.

Anonymous wrote:Well, sure a kid can fake caring about something, and maybe it will even work. Alternatively, they could actually care, and follow where it leads them.

One of those is a route to meaning and purpose, which nearly every thinker since the days of Aristotle has suggested is the path to a good life. One of those might fake an AO.

I don’t think the discussion was about the advisement whether to fake an interest in something. The issue is whether true interest v fake interest can differentiated by AOs. I say it can’t for the most part.

Well, sure a kid can fake caring about something, and maybe it will even work. Alternatively, they could actually care, and follow where it leads them.

One of those is a route to meaning and purpose, which nearly every thinker since the days of Aristotle has suggested is the path to a good life. One of those might fake an AO.

start a business with at least 1M revenue

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Caring about something — actually, truly caring, and letting that sense of care lead. It’s hard to define exactly, bc the specific path depends on the alchemy between the kid, that thing they care about, and the need/opportunity/moment.

But it begins with caring, and AOs know it when they see it.

Eh. Caring about something is not going to get you there. Would it help if the something was video games, socializing, or beauty pageants? Deep interest or desire in an activity is not how it begins. I know many kids who have continued a long term activity solely for college admissions purposes: scouts, crew, etc. you think those kids look less committed to the same activity than peers who do it next to them but love it? They don’t.

Kid one: hates scouting, wanted to drop it 3 years ago but parent said no, sticks with it and puts it on her college app looks just as committed as

Kid 2: loves scouting, never considered stopping, puts it on her college app, looking just as committed as kid 2.

College counsellor at our high school says there really is pretty big difference between the kids who stick with an activity. They don’t like “for college“ and the kids who cared deeply and lean in because they love it. The two activities will obviously look the same as a line item in the common app, butpersonal statements and supplemental essays are where kids can really colour in between the lines and let someone know who they are, what they care about, and why.

Odd…bc I know of 3 kids in Ivy League schools now (Cornell, Harvard and Princeton) who wrote essays about their passion project - the same one that was abandoned in the spring of their senior year. Where do these clairvoyant college counselors work? Maybe the Ivy League doesn’t require that of their AOs?

Anonymous wrote:College counsellor at our high school says there really is pretty big difference between the kids who stick with an activity. They don’t like “for college“ and the kids who cared deeply and lean in because they love it. The two activities will obviously look the same as a line item in the common app, butpersonal statements and supplemental essays are where kids can really colour in between the lines and let someone know who they are, what they care about, and why.

+1 Yep!

Anonymous wrote:I see reference in this forum to top notch ECs/excellent ECs/etc. Obviously subjective, but what are considered top ECs, outside of athletics for which the kid is recruited? Thanks.

I think there's a difference between top-notch and excellent ECs. Top-notch are things recognized at a regional, national, or international level. For example, a friend's DC was a Junior World Champion (in a niche, non-Olympic sport)....but, c'mon, a World Champion -- best in that sport, in the entire world.

Excellent ECs, however, are also really, really good (IMHO) -- even if every school has one like Drum Major or EIC Newspublication/Yearbook. Extra points for these, in my mind, if they're combined with athletics and/or an off-campus PT job. The benefits there to me are that many more people, especially and including admissions staff, might know the amount of effort required without having to read an essay. I'm not as sold, by default, on Class or Club President because those slots do and require different levels of commitment depending on the school. Some do a lot, others not so much.

Regardless, though, I think it more important for our kids to find something they love even if it, on the surface, might not seem to help at college admission time. What it can do for them is build confidence and having a passion for something, anything, usually translates into a better person -- the kind many colleges are looking for.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Caring about something — actually, truly caring, and letting that sense of care lead. It’s hard to define exactly, bc the specific path depends on the alchemy between the kid, that thing they care about, and the need/opportunity/moment.

But it begins with caring, and AOs know it when they see it.

Eh. Caring about something is not going to get you there. Would it help if the something was video games, socializing, or beauty pageants? Deep interest or desire in an activity is not how it begins. I know many kids who have continued a long term activity solely for college admissions purposes: scouts, crew, etc. you think those kids look less committed to the same activity than peers who do it next to them but love it? They don’t.

Kid one: hates scouting, wanted to drop it 3 years ago but parent said no, sticks with it and puts it on her college app looks just as committed as

Kid 2: loves scouting, never considered stopping, puts it on her college app, looking just as committed as kid 2.

College counsellor at our high school says there really is pretty big difference between the kids who stick with an activity. They don’t like “for college“ and the kids who cared deeply and lean in because they love it. The two activities will obviously look the same as a line item in the common app, butpersonal statements and supplemental essays are where kids can really colour in between the lines and let someone know who they are, what they care about, and why.

Anonymous wrote:Caring about something — actually, truly caring, and letting that sense of care lead. It’s hard to define exactly, bc the specific path depends on the alchemy between the kid, that thing they care about, and the need/opportunity/moment.

But it begins with caring, and AOs know it when they see it.

Eh. Caring about something is not going to get you there. Would it help if the something was video games, socializing, or beauty pageants? Deep interest or desire in an activity is not how it begins. I know many kids who have continued a long term activity solely for college admissions purposes: scouts, crew, etc. you think those kids look less committed to the same activity than peers who do it next to them but love it? They don’t.

Kid one: hates scouting, wanted to drop it 3 years ago but parent said no, sticks with it and puts it on her college app looks just as committed as

Kid 2: loves scouting, never considered stopping, puts it on her college app, looking just as committed as kid 2.