Anonymous
01/02/2024 12:50
Subject: Is there general agreement that if your score is above 25th percentile, you should submit?
our (pretty good) counselor says, he used to say 50% or above a couple years ago and he now says 25% and above. this is assuming you're not here on this board from rural Appalachia or all star kicker.
reason for 25% up is
- scores have jumped higher due to TO. colleges know this. 25% is the new 50%
- schools that were newly TO are realizing they really are test aware. schools that were always TO are more dedicated to this path.
- the CDS lists these scores for kids who enrolled, not kids who were admitted. the admitted group had scores that were a bit higher as a pool for most schools. that's okay. still 25% and up is on firm footing.
reason for 25% up is
- scores have jumped higher due to TO. colleges know this. 25% is the new 50%
- schools that were newly TO are realizing they really are test aware. schools that were always TO are more dedicated to this path.
- the CDS lists these scores for kids who enrolled, not kids who were admitted. the admitted group had scores that were a bit higher as a pool for most schools. that's okay. still 25% and up is on firm footing.
Anonymous
01/02/2024 12:37
Subject: Is there general agreement that if your score is above 25th percentile, you should submit?
My DC submitted everywhere they made the 25th percentile and also used that as a guide for where they’d most likely be a competitive applicant. If they had fallen above 25th percentile at Northeastern but below 1490, would not have submitted on advice of admissions session. DC submitted a score very slightly below the 25th percentile at their ED1 school on advice of AO and was accepted. Strong grades. I think many schools want to get their “percentage submitting” up so a 25th percentile is solid.
Anonymous
01/02/2024 12:35
Subject: Is there general agreement that if your score is above 25th percentile, you should submit?
Based on mostly disparaging remarks from DCUM community on TO and URMs, most posters seeking advice are assumed to be unhooked. For the elite schools, assume you're competing against the best of the "unhooked" and view / submit your test scores accordingly: either submit your score to the lottery school OR apply somewhere else where your score is 75%.
Anonymous
01/02/2024 12:33
Subject: Is there general agreement that if your score is above 25th percentile, you should submit?
Anonymous wrote:As all the contradictory yet confidently delivered advice here indicates, the whole test-scores thing is a mess. I've listed to dozens of podcasts and read several threads like this one, and the only conclusions I can draw is that things are very much in flux and it depends on the particular school. Here are some of the different flavors of test-optional advice out there.
(1) The Prevailing Wisdom: Most (but not all) AO's recommend submitting scores if they are between the 25%-75% averages of that school. Reasonable minds can differ as to whether to submit a test score that is just marginally below that 25%. Some argue that it's be better to submit a 33 to, say, Brown (34-36), than to go test optional because the AO might otherwise assume that the TO-applicant got a much worse ACT score (and a 33 is still a marvelous score). Others believe that certain schools are trying to keep their average test scores up for the sake of prestige such that they're likely to reject any applicant that pulls down their average.
(2) Test Preferred: As noted above, some schools like Yale and Dartmouth have indicated that they're "test preferred." I've heard that for such schools, it's a good idea to look at their pre-test optional test scores (e.g, from 2019) and submit the score if it's in the school's pre-Covid middle 50%. This makes sense to me. I doubt that withholding a good-but-not-great ACT score like a 32 or 33 is going to be better than going TO at a test-preferred school, which is a crapshoot anyhow.
(3) Only Median or Above: Some people recommend only submitting scores if they are at the school's median or above. I've never personally heard an AO recommend this on the record though. But I have heard anecdotally that this is the case for some schools. For example, I read somewhere that Northeastern's AOs have recommended this approach for NEU--e.g., if NEU's ACT median is a 34, then you shouldn't submit a 33 even though it's within NEU's middle 50%. Apparently, the philosophy is that the school is seeking to increase its average test scores for appearance's sake. That sounds insane to me, but it doesn't mean it's untrue.
(4) Good Test Score In Context: Many AOs recommend that an applicant submit a test score that is below the school's 25%-75% range if that score far exceeds the scores for the applicant's school. For example, an applicant from rural Appalachia should submit an ACT 31 to Yale if the average ACT score at their impoverished school is a 15.
(5) The Unfamiliar High School: If an applicant goes to a school with which AOs have no familiarity--e.g., home-schooled kids, an international school, or a brand new domestic charter school--a test score provides an objective measure of that student's potential aptitude that might be hard to discern from grades alone.
(6) Truly Test Optional: Some schools emphatically insist that withholding test scores will in no way prejudice an applicant. I'm inclined to believe any school that was test optional before Covid or any school where less than 50% of admitted/enrolled students submitted scores.
(7) Test Scores Not Considered at All: Some schools categorically do not consider test scores, such as Berkeley, UCLA, and the College of AAP at Cornell.
OP here. Thank you! That is a drop the mic post! I'm personally going to run with "If 25th percentile can be hit, then you must submit!" And then consider modifications to that on a case by case basis.
Anonymous
01/02/2024 12:27
Subject: Is there general agreement that if your score is above 25th percentile, you should submit?
As all the contradictory yet confidently delivered advice here indicates, the whole test-scores thing is a mess. I've listed to dozens of podcasts and read several threads like this one, and the only conclusions I can draw is that things are very much in flux and it depends on the particular school. Here are some of the different flavors of test-optional advice out there.
(1) The Prevailing Wisdom: Most (but not all) AO's recommend submitting scores if they are between the 25%-75% averages of that school. Reasonable minds can differ as to whether to submit a test score that is just marginally below that 25%. Some argue that it's be better to submit a 33 to, say, Brown (34-36), than to go test optional because the AO might otherwise assume that the TO-applicant got a much worse ACT score (and a 33 is still a marvelous score). Others believe that certain schools are trying to keep their average test scores up for the sake of prestige such that they're likely to reject any applicant that pulls down their average.
(2) Test Preferred: As noted above, some schools like Yale and Dartmouth have indicated that they're "test preferred." I've heard that for such schools, it's a good idea to look at their pre-test optional test scores (e.g, from 2019) and submit the score if it's in the school's pre-Covid middle 50%. This makes sense to me. I doubt that withholding a good-but-not-great ACT score like a 32 or 33 is going to be better than going TO at a test-preferred school, which is a crapshoot anyhow.
(3) Only Median or Above: Some people recommend only submitting scores if they are at the school's median or above. I've never personally heard an AO recommend this on the record though. But I have heard anecdotally that this is the case for some schools. For example, I read somewhere that Northeastern's AOs have recommended this approach for NEU--e.g., if NEU's ACT median is a 34, then you shouldn't submit a 33 even though it's within NEU's middle 50%. Apparently, the philosophy is that the school is seeking to increase its average test scores for appearance's sake. That sounds insane to me, but it doesn't mean it's untrue.
(4) Good Test Score In Context: Many AOs recommend that an applicant submit a test score that is below the school's 25%-75% range if that score far exceeds the scores for the applicant's school. For example, an applicant from rural Appalachia should submit an ACT 31 to Yale if the average ACT score at their impoverished school is a 15.
(5) The Unfamiliar High School: If an applicant goes to a school with which AOs have no familiarity--e.g., home-schooled kids, an international school, or a brand new domestic charter school--a test score provides an objective measure of that student's potential aptitude that might be hard to discern from grades alone.
(6) Truly Test Optional: Some schools emphatically insist that withholding test scores will in no way prejudice an applicant. I'm inclined to believe any school that was test optional before Covid or any school where less than 50% of admitted/enrolled students submitted scores.
(7) Test Scores Not Considered at All: Some schools categorically do not consider test scores, such as Berkeley, UCLA, and the College of AAP at Cornell.
(1) The Prevailing Wisdom: Most (but not all) AO's recommend submitting scores if they are between the 25%-75% averages of that school. Reasonable minds can differ as to whether to submit a test score that is just marginally below that 25%. Some argue that it's be better to submit a 33 to, say, Brown (34-36), than to go test optional because the AO might otherwise assume that the TO-applicant got a much worse ACT score (and a 33 is still a marvelous score). Others believe that certain schools are trying to keep their average test scores up for the sake of prestige such that they're likely to reject any applicant that pulls down their average.
(2) Test Preferred: As noted above, some schools like Yale and Dartmouth have indicated that they're "test preferred." I've heard that for such schools, it's a good idea to look at their pre-test optional test scores (e.g, from 2019) and submit the score if it's in the school's pre-Covid middle 50%. This makes sense to me. I doubt that withholding a good-but-not-great ACT score like a 32 or 33 is going to be better than going TO at a test-preferred school, which is a crapshoot anyhow.
(3) Only Median or Above: Some people recommend only submitting scores if they are at the school's median or above. I've never personally heard an AO recommend this on the record though. But I have heard anecdotally that this is the case for some schools. For example, I read somewhere that Northeastern's AOs have recommended this approach for NEU--e.g., if NEU's ACT median is a 34, then you shouldn't submit a 33 even though it's within NEU's middle 50%. Apparently, the philosophy is that the school is seeking to increase its average test scores for appearance's sake. That sounds insane to me, but it doesn't mean it's untrue.
(4) Good Test Score In Context: Many AOs recommend that an applicant submit a test score that is below the school's 25%-75% range if that score far exceeds the scores for the applicant's school. For example, an applicant from rural Appalachia should submit an ACT 31 to Yale if the average ACT score at their impoverished school is a 15.
(5) The Unfamiliar High School: If an applicant goes to a school with which AOs have no familiarity--e.g., home-schooled kids, an international school, or a brand new domestic charter school--a test score provides an objective measure of that student's potential aptitude that might be hard to discern from grades alone.
(6) Truly Test Optional: Some schools emphatically insist that withholding test scores will in no way prejudice an applicant. I'm inclined to believe any school that was test optional before Covid or any school where less than 50% of admitted/enrolled students submitted scores.
(7) Test Scores Not Considered at All: Some schools categorically do not consider test scores, such as Berkeley, UCLA, and the College of AAP at Cornell.
Anonymous
01/02/2024 12:22
Subject: Is there general agreement that if your score is above 25th percentile, you should submit?
Anonymous wrote:^This. It's changing year by year, school by school.
The previous advice to submit only if over the 50th percentile is now outdated for many top schools.
Submit if you are near the 25th percentile. That's better than being assumed to have a lower one, in many cases.
I disagree with this. In my opinion submitting at the 25% level isn’t necessary and is more likely to hurt an otherwise strong application. OP, you will not get consensus on this question bc there isn’t any.
Anonymous
01/02/2024 11:02
Subject: Is there general agreement that if your score is above 25th percentile, you should submit?
^This. It's changing year by year, school by school.
The previous advice to submit only if over the 50th percentile is now outdated for many top schools.
Submit if you are near the 25th percentile. That's better than being assumed to have a lower one, in many cases.
The previous advice to submit only if over the 50th percentile is now outdated for many top schools.
Submit if you are near the 25th percentile. That's better than being assumed to have a lower one, in many cases.
Anonymous
01/02/2024 10:59
Subject: Is there general agreement that if your score is above 25th percentile, you should submit?
Nobody knows. The answer is changing every year and will likely vary by school.
My kid submitted a score that was above the 75th for his strong area (800) and just below the 25th (680) for his weaker area. He got in ED.
As regular-strong (not amazingly strong) applicant, he didn’t bother applying ED or RD (if it had come to that) to schools that had tippy top average scores. We could see from naviance that most of those schools were rejecting everyone from his school anyway, even those with perfect scores and grades.
My kid submitted a score that was above the 75th for his strong area (800) and just below the 25th (680) for his weaker area. He got in ED.
As regular-strong (not amazingly strong) applicant, he didn’t bother applying ED or RD (if it had come to that) to schools that had tippy top average scores. We could see from naviance that most of those schools were rejecting everyone from his school anyway, even those with perfect scores and grades.
Anonymous
01/02/2024 10:49
Subject: Is there general agreement that if your score is above 25th percentile, you should submit?
This is a quote from a UMD admissions staffer on a parent Facebook group:
“Only those with superb test scores should submit, or those who are not in a rigorous high school curriculum, don't have many As and want an additional piece of info.”
“Only those with superb test scores should submit, or those who are not in a rigorous high school curriculum, don't have many As and want an additional piece of info.”
Anonymous
01/02/2024 10:47
Subject: Is there general agreement that if your score is above 25th percentile, you should submit?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Non-URM: submit if you are at 50 or above. Will slightly benefit at 75 and above.
URM, FGLI: Submit at 25 and above. Will help at 50 and above.
This is just wrong, elite college admissions officers are now saying they prefer scores.
The only schools where I would be stingy in submitting are Tulane and NE, because they openly say they want only high scores and admit a ton of kids test optional.
Are you sure about Tulane? I thought 50% of the enrolled students submitted test scores last year. Is that considered a ton of TO admits? Maybe?
Neo
01/02/2024 10:45
Subject: Is there general agreement that if your score is above 25th percentile, you should submit?
There is no agreement even on scores..
Anonymous
01/02/2024 10:41
Subject: Is there general agreement that if your score is above 25th percentile, you should submit?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:There is a 10 page discussion that fully describes all these opinions going on right now. Why on earth would someone start another discussion about the prudence of submitting test scores? Despite the slightly different prompt it has already devolved into the exact same conversation.
OP-- because I want to resolve in my mind what a realistic set of targets/reaches is for my unhooked non-URM kid, who I am doubtful could get in somewhere selective TO. So in my mind, the schools he should focus on should be the ones where he is at or above 25th percentile. I am using this thread as a sounding board for that hypothesis.
Well then, as the other thread demonstrates, you can get into high reaches without submitting test scores with an otherwise strong, unhooked application. There is not agreement that you should submit at 25%. Many of us believe that submitting below 50% or even 75% is worse then not submitting. Others disagree. What is clear is that there is not general agreement.
Anonymous
01/02/2024 10:27
Subject: Is there general agreement that if your score is above 25th percentile, you should submit?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Non-URM: submit if you are at 50 or above. Will slightly benefit at 75 and above.
URM, FGLI: Submit at 25 and above. Will help at 50 and above.
This is just wrong, elite college admissions officers are now saying they prefer scores.
The only schools where I would be stingy in submitting are Tulane and NE, because they openly say they want only high scores and admit a ton of kids test optional.
For elite schools, I agree. Applying with a 25th percentile score for a regular kid would be suicidal in any case.
Below 25th is suicidal or between 25th-50th? Is TO actually better than 25th-50th? That is really counterintuitive.
Anonymous
01/02/2024 10:26
Subject: Is there general agreement that if your score is above 25th percentile, you should submit?
Anonymous wrote:There is a 10 page discussion that fully describes all these opinions going on right now. Why on earth would someone start another discussion about the prudence of submitting test scores? Despite the slightly different prompt it has already devolved into the exact same conversation.
OP-- because I want to resolve in my mind what a realistic set of targets/reaches is for my unhooked non-URM kid, who I am doubtful could get in somewhere selective TO. So in my mind, the schools he should focus on should be the ones where he is at or above 25th percentile. I am using this thread as a sounding board for that hypothesis.
Anonymous
01/02/2024 10:22
Subject: Is there general agreement that if your score is above 25th percentile, you should submit?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Non-URM: submit if you are at 50 or above. Will slightly benefit at 75 and above.
URM, FGLI: Submit at 25 and above. Will help at 50 and above.
This is just wrong, elite college admissions officers are now saying they prefer scores.
The only schools where I would be stingy in submitting are Tulane and NE, because they openly say they want only high scores and admit a ton of kids test optional.
For elite schools, I agree. Applying with a 25th percentile score for a regular kid would be suicidal in any case.