Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Any other advice other than professional help? My husband is vehemently against it, and also the children would never in a million years cooperate. It’s a clusterfk just getting them to see a regular doctor.

I posted at 13:31 before seeing you didn't want professional help. Here is what I have found helpful (in addition to professional help) for my kid with anxiety who at home can have very loud angry outbursts and refuse to do basic things. No sensory issues that I'm aware of. 1) Understand the behavior. Why is my child acting this way? What are they anxious about/fearful of? What are they trying to do or achieve? It sometimes takes an excruciating amount of time for me to figure this out. Like weeks ore months to figure out why a certain situation triggers my child. When my kid is upset they just refuse, refuse, refuse. They can't or won't explain. Why don't you want to go to your best fiends house? "I just don't want to go!!" Why? "I just don't!" And it turns out their best friend wanted to play tag at recess that day not hide and seek so my kid feels rejected. <sigh> Even if it isn't rational to you it can be a real fear/anxiety for them. That is legitimate and needs to be given love an understanding. My kid also is developing social skills so gets frustrated when others reject him. This doesn't turn into outbursts at school, but when I see my kid having trouble in a social situation I can pull them aside and ask what they are trying to do. Do you want Larlo to play hide and seek? Larlo doesn't want to play that game now, but maybe will play later. You can choose to play the game Larlo is playing or find other kids to invite to play hide and seek. One thing that helps my relationship with my child is finding things we both like to do and do those as frequently as possible. This could be reading a book to your child or making cookies or going to batting cages. Personally I've found it needs to be an activity I enjoy as well otherwise it just drains me and that isn't good for either of us. GL!

But you sound like you need professional help as well. Even talking with your school's social worker about the range of behaviors and interventions is helpful. Over the years I've found nuggets here and there that have been invaluable, even from people who were dismissive of me and my concerns.

Thanks. Having these types of scripts is helpful and it’s something that definitely doesn’t come naturally to me. It wasn’t modeled for me by any measure.

I’ve felt the same way, realizing it was mostly nature over nurture for my kids. I did have to seek help though and I would if I were you, I learned my kids have anxiety and one of them is OCD. I didn’t realize this was what was contributing to most of their behavior until they were put on an SSRI and I have never had such extreme behavior in the house since. Like yours they were great at school , terrible at home. While my child did have to meet with the psychiatrist for medication , she never had to meet with the therapist, we did something called SPACE. My kids father never met with either the psychiatrist or the therapist.

Side thought. Are you close enough to DH's siblings that you can discuss what happened in their lives directly - how it felt to be them, how they wished they would be treated, how much sleep they needed as kids? Sounds like DH is the most functional so maybe info from the others would help.

From what you've said above, the suicide risk is the most frightening issue. My recommendation is that you delay phones and don't allow social media. It's quite possible for kids to do without social media.

I actually am pro-multi-player video gaming if the friend community is healthy. My kids play Roblox quest games and have met some intelligent, friendly kids from other parts of the world to socialize with. Gaming got my younger through a rough patch in middle school. So that's not necessarily a problem.

Another suggestion...when they are really angry, do you follow them and try to talk about feelings? Some people (my IL family) are better left alone to cool off. My family likes to continue engaging in discussion while angry. I've had to learn to not chase people around while arguing things out. Better to allow cool off and discuss another time.

Another thing...occasionally humor can defuse a screaming threat situation. Or a poker face. Maybe your kids are continuing to lash out at you because they can read your face and tell that they are making an impact.

You may have luck once the kids have hit developmental milestones....they may respond to the nurture. It seems hopeful to me that they are well-behaved at school. In my limited experience, kids that are disruptive at home are consistent in other environments.

Another thought...since they are smart, why don't you make them a no-screen play area with interesting things to send them to as a time-out. Like a science kit or workbench area. Maybe being sent somewhere in the house is enough of a signal to calm down and cut out whatever behavior.

Last thing that comes to mind...the "one of these things is not like the other" family situation that you are in. I lived in a FOO where mom was the "good girl" and dad and 2 kids were much more on the same wavelength.
I think you are really wise for reaching out for help. Your DH might want to avoid managing this situation because of bad memories. And you are the person least similar to your family members. So it makes a lot of sense for you to be collecting info and trying out techniques to find out what works best. Because you deserve to be happy and respected, but your loved ones may not be able to introspect enough to help you to learn how to manage them more successfully.

Wishing you luck and just want to say you're an attentive and good mom for starting down this path of inquiry.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Even "normal" kids benefit from their parents taking parenting classes or getting outside help.

I think your background is making you more reactive to your kids' behaviors. But realizing that both your troubled upbringings may be playing out in your kids will be the first step to getting rid of these "ghosts in the nursery."

Yes, you’re exactly right. I have ptsd from my dad’s anger. My automatic reaction is shutdown mode.

Look into EMDR, OP, it can be very helpful very quickly.

Re: kids, consider Dan Shapiro's class.

I was you and it did get better with the above. Something else that helped, I found a small group/meeting through https://adultchildren.org/ to work through https://adultchildren.org/literature/loving-parent-guidebook/ it's been life changing. You could also work through the book on your own but I found a small regular group, an hour a week, to be really healing and the thoughts of others gave me a lot of insights I otherwise would not have had. A meditation practice has also helped me manage my own reactivity. I used to yell or want to run and hide from the chaos and strong emotions, my heart goes out to you.

Anonymous wrote:If teachers are not reporting any problems, then it could be that this is a parenting issue. I hate to kick you while you're down, but is it possible your behavior is contributing to their outbursts? Diagnosis of most behavioral disorders requires evidence from multiple environments. If the only problem is the home, then the good news is that it might be fixable!

What kinds of strategies and techniques have you tried? Can you get a parenting coach for yourself?

Yes maybe. In many ways they are closer to my husband, because they are more alike. When they get angry at him, he throws it back at them. It’s a big chaotic screaming match. It sends me into shutdown mode. Same thing happens when my kids start screaming at me and then I need a day to recover.

I have tried many strategies and techniques but I honestly can’t remember right now. I’m in shutdown mode because I got screamed at today. I think I just need to get away for a while.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sending you hugs OP. I could have written a similar post. Which county do you live in? Some counties have better family support than others. Places to reach out to re: behavior you see at home include your pediatrician and school social worker. Finding the right specialists can be so hard without a specific diagnosis, but there is a whole world of people who help kids. Its a hard a lonely road (I'm on it myself), but know you are NOT alone.

Again, my husband is vehemently against putting anything in their medical records or talking about this with their pediatrician. I don’t think it’s a barrier I can overcome to get professional help for them.

Talking to your pediatrician doesn't put anything in their medical record. You're sharing with your pediatrician what you observe at home and asking if there are any resources they know of that you should consult. A pediatrician would never make a diagnosis based on that. You're asking for guidance on where to look for help. The pediatrician might refer you to a child psychologist, depending on what you share. That doesn't mean you have to go. A pediatrician might even help you work out how to approach your spouse about that. Frankly, if there is a diagnosis your child should receive, having that in their school IEP will actually protect them down the road if they develop problematic behaviors at school. I recognize there is still stigma around a lot of things, but its really doing your kids a disservice to deny them help if they need it. Nobody on here can answer definitively whether your kids need professional help, but you asked for advice. Child professionals are the place to seek that advice. Good for you looking for ways to help your kids (and yourself).

I had the misfortune of growing up in a family like your DH’s and since that's how your DH was raised (programmed), he’s going to have to stop himself from passing this toxic behavior onto his next generation (your kids). It’s possible some of this behavior is due to genetics but I think nurture has a large role.

Does your DH exercise? As a child, I suggested that my dad channel his anger and extra energy into jogging and going to the gym. He knew he had a problem and took my advice and it definitely helped—he stopped flying off the handle and beating us less.

It took me decades to heal and I continue to do so—therapy, meditation, journaling, doing big fitness goals (triathlons, etc), being in nature, enjoying being with my kids, etc. Trying some of these might be helpful with your DH and kids as well.

Anonymous wrote:Any other advice other than professional help? My husband is vehemently against it, and also the children would never in a million years cooperate. It’s a clusterfk just getting them to see a regular doctor.

I posted at 13:31 before seeing you didn't want professional help. Here is what I have found helpful (in addition to professional help) for my kid with anxiety who at home can have very loud angry outbursts and refuse to do basic things. No sensory issues that I'm aware of. 1) Understand the behavior. Why is my child acting this way? What are they anxious about/fearful of? What are they trying to do or achieve? It sometimes takes an excruciating amount of time for me to figure this out. Like weeks ore months to figure out why a certain situation triggers my child. When my kid is upset they just refuse, refuse, refuse. They can't or won't explain. Why don't you want to go to your best fiends house? "I just don't want to go!!" Why? "I just don't!" And it turns out their best friend wanted to play tag at recess that day not hide and seek so my kid feels rejected. <sigh> Even if it isn't rational to you it can be a real fear/anxiety for them. That is legitimate and needs to be given love an understanding. My kid also is developing social skills so gets frustrated when others reject him. This doesn't turn into outbursts at school, but when I see my kid having trouble in a social situation I can pull them aside and ask what they are trying to do. Do you want Larlo to play hide and seek? Larlo doesn't want to play that game now, but maybe will play later. You can choose to play the game Larlo is playing or find other kids to invite to play hide and seek. One thing that helps my relationship with my child is finding things we both like to do and do those as frequently as possible. This could be reading a book to your child or making cookies or going to batting cages. Personally I've found it needs to be an activity I enjoy as well otherwise it just drains me and that isn't good for either of us. GL!

But you sound like you need professional help as well. Even talking with your school's social worker about the range of behaviors and interventions is helpful. Over the years I've found nuggets here and there that have been invaluable, even from people who were dismissive of me and my concerns.

Your DH is gifted and intelligent. What else is great about him? Because your children will probably get that, too. Try to be as positive as you can about it.

PPs have suggested parenting classes, but I think your best bet is counseling for the children when the time is right.

My DS has ADHD, and I realize now that my brother and I do, too. It manifested differently in us - my brother failed out of college and works retail in middle age (but he's a GREAT guy). I did well in school and have 2 graduate degrees. My DS is much more like my brother. But having that example for us (and going through a rough time when DS was in his early teens that resulted in several years of counseling for him) has been such a positive. My parents tried their best, but I see things that they could have done differently. Plus, it gives DS (19 now) and I a baseline for conversation: "Uncle Larlo ... Let's talk about a different path."

I get where you're coming from, though. Except it's MY genes that are the issue.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How old are these kids?

You are projecting adult mental issues on kids who are not even teens yet. Come on OP!

Have you seen a doctor, therapist anyone or are you sitting at home blaming you DH's genes and giving up hope?

7, 9, 11. I get therapy for myself to help deal with these challenges. I also have scheduled a consultation session on my own with a child therapist and then have not followed through because my husband was very much against it.

Why does he even have to know you went? If he is not willing to step up and take on more parenting responsibility, it's not okay for him to tell you you can't get your own help to manage it better. He sounds insecure and abusive. Telling you that you aren't allowed to attend an appointment of your own??? Or is he just saying he is against it, and because you're so afraid of angry men because of your childhood, you're taking it as "I can't go" when really he's just saying "I don't like the idea of you going". He can not like it all he wants, he doesnt control you.

No he’s totally fine with me getting therapy. He doesn’t think the kids need therapy and is very much going down that road with them. He thinks it will be tremendously damaging to them, and honestly he would see it as me abusing them if I did this against his will.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sending you hugs OP. I could have written a similar post. Which county do you live in? Some counties have better family support than others. Places to reach out to re: behavior you see at home include your pediatrician and school social worker. Finding the right specialists can be so hard without a specific diagnosis, but there is a whole world of people who help kids. Its a hard a lonely road (I'm on it myself), but know you are NOT alone.

Again, my husband is vehemently against putting anything in their medical records or talking about this with their pediatrician. I don’t think it’s a barrier I can overcome to get professional help for them.

You sound as scared of your husband as you were of your father. Think about that. You're just repeating patterns here. Your husband isn't your father and you don't depend on him the way you depended completely on your parents for all of your needs as a child. It doesn't matter if he is against the kids getting help for their anger and anxiety. He's at work all day. Just take them.

This is one of those areas where my husband’s reaction DOES scare me. It’s one of the few times he’s cursed and screamed at me.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How old are these kids?

You are projecting adult mental issues on kids who are not even teens yet. Come on OP!

Have you seen a doctor, therapist anyone or are you sitting at home blaming you DH's genes and giving up hope?

7, 9, 11. I get therapy for myself to help deal with these challenges. I also have scheduled a consultation session on my own with a child therapist and then have not followed through because my husband was very much against it.

Why does he even have to know you went? If he is not willing to step up and take on more parenting responsibility, it's not okay for him to tell you you can't get your own help to manage it better. He sounds insecure and abusive. Telling you that you aren't allowed to attend an appointment of your own??? Or is he just saying he is against it, and because you're so afraid of angry men because of your childhood, you're taking it as "I can't go" when really he's just saying "I don't like the idea of you going". He can not like it all he wants, he doesnt control you.

If teachers are not reporting any problems, then it could be that this is a parenting issue. I hate to kick you while you're down, but is it possible your behavior is contributing to their outbursts? Diagnosis of most behavioral disorders requires evidence from multiple environments. If the only problem is the home, then the good news is that it might be fixable!

What kinds of strategies and techniques have you tried? Can you get a parenting coach for yourself?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sending you hugs OP. I could have written a similar post. Which county do you live in? Some counties have better family support than others. Places to reach out to re: behavior you see at home include your pediatrician and school social worker. Finding the right specialists can be so hard without a specific diagnosis, but there is a whole world of people who help kids. Its a hard a lonely road (I'm on it myself), but know you are NOT alone.

Again, my husband is vehemently against putting anything in their medical records or talking about this with their pediatrician. I don’t think it’s a barrier I can overcome to get professional help for them.

You sound as scared of your husband as you were of your father. Think about that. You're just repeating patterns here. Your husband isn't your father and you don't depend on him the way you depended completely on your parents for all of your needs as a child. It doesn't matter if he is against the kids getting help for their anger and anxiety. He's at work all day. Just take them.

Anonymous wrote:How old are these kids?

You are projecting adult mental issues on kids who are not even teens yet. Come on OP!

Have you seen a doctor, therapist anyone or are you sitting at home blaming you DH's genes and giving up hope?

7, 9, 11. I get therapy for myself to help deal with these challenges. I also have scheduled a consultation session on my own with a child therapist and then have not followed through because my husband was very much against it.