Anonymous
Post 11/18/2023 17:45     Subject: Pomona to go permanently test-optional
Anonymous wrote:Good move on Pomona's part. Will not have any bearing whatsoever on the quality of students they accept.

Disagree. I think it will. Kids there used to have to be exceptionally smart and test very well. Many used to go to med school. I wonder if that will still be the case if the kids can’t even do well enough on the SAT to submit how will they get a good score on the MCAT etc.
But maybe the school’s priorities have changed so it could be intentional. Maybe they values other things over being as academic as possible now.
Anonymous
Post 11/18/2023 17:40     Subject: Pomona to go permanently test-optional
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Of course. The schools that like tests have moderate demand and moderate prices (Purdue, Bama) or high demand and high prices (MIT, CalTech). Moderate demand + high price = test optional, starting way before COVID with Bates and Chicago. Pomona definitely falls into that category. I would expect all ED schools to stay TO.


Cal tech is test blind

Yes but they are so tiny with so few spots and so math focused they can tell in the apps if the kids have won awards or been published and done research so that is a way to weed people out . Very unusual situation and place.
Anonymous
Post 11/18/2023 17:34     Subject: Pomona to go permanently test-optional
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Makes complete sense. UCs and Cal State system and Caltech are all test blind. Not even optional, but blind. They won't accept scores. I have friends in CA who say that no one takes ACT or SAT any more. Any east coast or Midwest college that brings back a requirement will see applications dry up, especially from CA. And let's face it, there aren't many families with kids left in New England. I'm guessing more colleges will go test blind to make clear to applicants that they truly won't be at a disadvantage by not sending in scores.


I don’t know of any high performing students in CA who are electing to bypass the ACT and/or SAT. Most of them apply to the top 3 UCs, sure, but they also apply to other T20 schools around the country that didn’t have Janet Napolitano go rogue on their admissions policies.

I’m sure there are plenty of HS students here who will find it wise to avoid testing. But the top students?

No way.
]


This. The chances of getting into UCLA or Berkeley are slim unless first gen or URM so these top performing kids have to apply to many backups both in and out of state where they still are expected to submit scores (beause they are asian american or white).


It’s all the UCs and all the Cal State options…there are plenty of strong options past UCLA and Berkeley. There are also a number of CA privates like San Diego that are test blind.

Anonymous
Post 11/18/2023 17:30     Subject: Pomona to go permanently test-optional
Anonymous wrote:It's an interesting shift. Ten to fifteen years ago, Pomona required SATs at an absurdly high level. They were consistently in the top 10 among all schools for highest enrolled student SAT, higher than Stanford and half of the Ivies. About 5 years ago, they weighted them less heavily with entering SAT scores expectations hitting around the top 30 institutions (but well below the top 10). Now they've decided to go test optional completely.

Swarthmore, Amherst, and Williams are only test optional until 2025.

Nah, they just haven’t announced the extension of test optional beyond 2025 yet. They will. Test optional for SLACs is now basically permanent, whether this has formally been announced or not.

Anonymous
Post 11/18/2023 16:51     Subject: Pomona to go permanently test-optional
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Odd that this fact was inserted. May be irrelevant because a matter like this is usually a President/Board/Admissions decision, not faculty: "Pomona faculty voted earlier this month in support of making this policy permanent. "

Watch, in two years they will switch back like some east coast schools are doing


Not odd at all. It's to show that there is universal support for the policy, that it's not being imposed over the objections of faculty.


I think it's odd. I don't think the person who issued the press release understands how these are usually done. The faculty and say and do whatever it likes but something like this is still a Board/President decision.


I'm the pp, and I work in comms at a university. I'm telling you that this is very intentional.
Anonymous
Post 11/18/2023 16:35     Subject: Pomona to go permanently test-optional
Cal Tech's moratorium doesn't end until 2025. Some east coast slacs are bringing them back - I expect Cal Tech will to. "Moratorium on requirement and consideration of SAT and/or ACT test scores that will be in effect for all first-year students applying to Caltech for Fall 2022 through Fall 2025".
Anonymous
Post 11/18/2023 16:32     Subject: Pomona to go permanently test-optional
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Makes complete sense. UCs and Cal State system and Caltech are all test blind. Not even optional, but blind. They won't accept scores. I have friends in CA who say that no one takes ACT or SAT any more. Any east coast or Midwest college that brings back a requirement will see applications dry up, especially from CA. And let's face it, there aren't many families with kids left in New England. I'm guessing more colleges will go test blind to make clear to applicants that they truly won't be at a disadvantage by not sending in scores.


I don’t know of any high performing students in CA who are electing to bypass the ACT and/or SAT. Most of them apply to the top 3 UCs, sure, but they also apply to other T20 schools around the country that didn’t have Janet Napolitano go rogue on their admissions policies.

I’m sure there are plenty of HS students here who will find it wise to avoid testing. But the top students?

No way.
]


This. The chances of getting into UCLA or Berkeley are slim unless first gen or URM so these top performing kids have to apply to many backups both in and out of state where they still are expected to submit scores (beause they are asian american or white).
Anonymous
Post 11/18/2023 16:31     Subject: Pomona to go permanently test-optional
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Odd that this fact was inserted. May be irrelevant because a matter like this is usually a President/Board/Admissions decision, not faculty: "Pomona faculty voted earlier this month in support of making this policy permanent. "

Watch, in two years they will switch back like some east coast schools are doing


Not odd at all. It's to show that there is universal support for the policy, that it's not being imposed over the objections of faculty.


I think it's odd. I don't think the person who issued the press release understands how these are usually done. The faculty and say and do whatever it likes but something like this is still a Board/President decision.
Anonymous
Post 11/18/2023 15:58     Subject: Pomona to go permanently test-optional
Live in LA and have kids at private school. Last year maybe 20% of kids did SAT/ACT. This year the school stopped having the kids to PSAT their Jr year. It is just going away out here.

20% of kids in CA took SAT in 2022. It was almost 70% a few years ago.
Anonymous
Post 11/18/2023 15:50     Subject: Pomona to go permanently test-optional
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Of course. The schools that like tests have moderate demand and moderate prices (Purdue, Bama) or high demand and high prices (MIT, CalTech). Moderate demand + high price = test optional, starting way before COVID with Bates and Chicago. Pomona definitely falls into that category. I would expect all ED schools to stay TO.


Cal tech is test blind


DP but Caltech is an anomaly that it’s test blind. If you look at its admissions site it very clearly states they expect you to take the hardest STEM classes your school offers and it seems like they encourage to go above and beyond if feasible. Outside of first gen students, I don’t think they’re accepting anyone who has just done Calc AB.


They may be test blind but we were told by our college counselor you need the recommendation of a professor at Caltech to be a viable candidate.

NP. Caltech has such a small enrolled class size (224 freshmen) that it is feasible to take such a deep dive into the student's transcript. It may be less feasible at larger colleges.
Anonymous
Post 11/18/2023 15:24     Subject: Pomona to go permanently test-optional
Good move on Pomona's part. Will not have any bearing whatsoever on the quality of students they accept.
Anonymous
Post 11/18/2023 15:10     Subject: Pomona to go permanently test-optional
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Of course. The schools that like tests have moderate demand and moderate prices (Purdue, Bama) or high demand and high prices (MIT, CalTech). Moderate demand + high price = test optional, starting way before COVID with Bates and Chicago. Pomona definitely falls into that category. I would expect all ED schools to stay TO.


Cal tech is test blind


DP but Caltech is an anomaly that it’s test blind. If you look at its admissions site it very clearly states they expect you to take the hardest STEM classes your school offers and it seems like they encourage to go above and beyond if feasible. Outside of first gen students, I don’t think they’re accepting anyone who has just done Calc AB.


They may be test blind but we were told by our college counselor you need the recommendation of a professor at Caltech to be a viable candidate.
Anonymous
Post 11/18/2023 14:38     Subject: Pomona to go permanently test-optional
Anonymous wrote:Odd that this fact was inserted. May be irrelevant because a matter like this is usually a President/Board/Admissions decision, not faculty: "Pomona faculty voted earlier this month in support of making this policy permanent. "

Watch, in two years they will switch back like some east coast schools are doing


Not odd at all. It's to show that there is universal support for the policy, that it's not being imposed over the objections of faculty.
Anonymous
Post 11/18/2023 14:27     Subject: Pomona to go permanently test-optional
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Makes complete sense. UCs and Cal State system and Caltech are all test blind. Not even optional, but blind. They won't accept scores. I have friends in CA who say that no one takes ACT or SAT any more. Any east coast or Midwest college that brings back a requirement will see applications dry up, especially from CA. And let's face it, there aren't many families with kids left in New England. I'm guessing more colleges will go test blind to make clear to applicants that they truly won't be at a disadvantage by not sending in scores.


I don’t know of any high performing students in CA who are electing to bypass the ACT and/or SAT. Most of them apply to the top 3 UCs, sure, but they also apply to other T20 schools around the country that didn’t have Janet Napolitano go rogue on their admissions policies.

I’m sure there are plenty of HS students here who will find it wise to avoid testing. But the top students?

No way.


I live in a state with a test optional (not blind) flagship with a 90% in-state acceptance rate and still 90% of the students take it at the local high school. And this is not a school that sends many kids to elite schools.
Anonymous
Post 11/18/2023 14:17     Subject: Pomona to go permanently test-optional
Anonymous wrote:Makes complete sense. UCs and Cal State system and Caltech are all test blind. Not even optional, but blind. They won't accept scores. I have friends in CA who say that no one takes ACT or SAT any more. Any east coast or Midwest college that brings back a requirement will see applications dry up, especially from CA. And let's face it, there aren't many families with kids left in New England. I'm guessing more colleges will go test blind to make clear to applicants that they truly won't be at a disadvantage by not sending in scores.


I don’t know of any high performing students in CA who are electing to bypass the ACT and/or SAT. Most of them apply to the top 3 UCs, sure, but they also apply to other T20 schools around the country that didn’t have Janet Napolitano go rogue on their admissions policies.

I’m sure there are plenty of HS students here who will find it wise to avoid testing. But the top students?

No way.