Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kids are middle schoolers, but when they went to a preschool that required the children to be toilet trained, we were told that 3 accidents in a semester and the child would be removed from the program. They did occasionally stretch to four if there were extenuating circumstances, but it was written into the contract that we signed. Daycares and preschools should just write this into the contracts and then you don't have to deal with people like the unreasonable dad.

And the appropriate response is that if his son is having such terrible accidents, the family should purchase less expensive underwear and they should work on improving the child's toilet training.

Said the parent of two neurotypical children, who clearly never dealt with a child with special needs. Some programs have rules on toilet training and those immediately exclude any child with special needs. Kid has ASD? ADHD? Anxiety? Sensory issues? Apparently these kids don’t deserve a place in school with your typically developing child. Newsflash - some kids train late because of developmental challenges or disabilities that you can’t see. Rigid one size fits all rules do not serve all children and only exclude those that are the ones who need more help and support.

As a mom who toilet trained my eldest at 2.5 and am struggling with a 3 year old who refuses to train because of sensory issues, I hate parents like you. NeverMind that we have been to many specialists and therapists and our pediatrician says not to train until we are ready - meanies like you just want to blame, blame, blame.

Yep. And I hate parents like you. You have children with special needs and you need to find programs that serve your children and their needs. Putting your child who needs the extra time and attention into a regular program doesn't serve anyone well. The program does not provide enough providers to provide that much attention to the special needs child. So you end up with children who need more attention who are not getting that attention. And when the providers provide more attention to those children, they amount of time they spend on the rest of the community is even less. So, the individual doesn't get as much attention as they need and the remainder get even less attention that they should have.

You need to look for programs that have a lower student:teacher ratio and that can provide extra care to fewer children. Yes, those programs have to be more expensive because the facility is getting less income from volume, so the cost per student will go up.

But parents who have special needs children who try to put them in regular programs and then complain when the program is not all inclusive for all of their child's special needs and then complain about the costs are a much bigger problem for the facilities and the staff. Parents like you want extra attention to your child at the expense of the rest of the class and you don't care that the other students get less attention to give your child more.

Anonymous wrote:My kids are middle schoolers, but when they went to a preschool that required the children to be toilet trained, we were told that 3 accidents in a semester and the child would be removed from the program. They did occasionally stretch to four if there were extenuating circumstances, but it was written into the contract that we signed. Daycares and preschools should just write this into the contracts and then you don't have to deal with people like the unreasonable dad.

And the appropriate response is that if his son is having such terrible accidents, the family should purchase less expensive underwear and they should work on improving the child's toilet training.

Said the parent of two neurotypical children, who clearly never dealt with a child with special needs. Some programs have rules on toilet training and those immediately exclude any child with special needs. Kid has ASD? ADHD? Anxiety? Sensory issues? Apparently these kids don’t deserve a place in school with your typically developing child. Newsflash - some kids train late because of developmental challenges or disabilities that you can’t see. Rigid one size fits all rules do not serve all children and only exclude those that are the ones who need more help and support.

As a mom who toilet trained my eldest at 2.5 and am struggling with a 3 year old who refuses to train because of sensory issues, I hate parents like you. NeverMind that we have been to many specialists and therapists and our pediatrician says not to train until we are ready - meanies like you just want to blame, blame, blame.

My kids are middle schoolers, but when they went to a preschool that required the children to be toilet trained, we were told that 3 accidents in a semester and the child would be removed from the program. They did occasionally stretch to four if there were extenuating circumstances, but it was written into the contract that we signed. Daycares and preschools should just write this into the contracts and then you don't have to deal with people like the unreasonable dad.

And the appropriate response is that if his son is having such terrible accidents, the family should purchase less expensive underwear and they should work on improving the child's toilet training.

why do people make up stuff so much? Who said the OP was "shocked and angry" about accidents? Way to totally miss the point of the thread.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:TBH it would never occur to me to thank a daycare provider for cleaning and changing a child that had an accident. It seems like it would be a regular part of their job It's not that I don't appreciate the providers, I think they are amazing and say thank you all the time, just not for this specific thing. My 4yo has pee accidents from time to time and we often find out just from getting back pants in a plastic bag.

Anyway just saying the parent may not be a jerk, he may just not realize what a burden the poop blowouts are for the teachers and maybe this needs to be spelled out for him. And yeah I also would not expect them to throw out the clothes. This seems like a basic communication issue.

It is part of the job. Op should
Consider a position teaching older kids if dealing with diapers is such a big issue for her. I mean, I get it, it’s gross, but nurses and nursing home workers also have to do “dirty” jobs, too.

Parents want daycare to be cheaper but constantly want more and more. They complain about cost of Turk toon but believe the teachers should get more money, benefits, etc. and their kids should get more programming. But, they are unwilling to pay more or become flexible on issues such as this. That is the preschool world

But toileting is a basic functioning of daycare. This is like complaining that it's unreasonable for parents to expect their kids to be fed.

I find it weird for a daycare or preschool teacher to be so disgusted by a kid having an accident. You get coughed in and thrown up on too. It's just the gig.

When my kid was in preschool she had a few accidents and I did thank the teachers each time for helping her with changing, etc. But their response was always "don't worry about it, it happens all the time." I find OP's shock and anger over this one incident strange for someone who works with 3 year olds.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:TBH it would never occur to me to thank a daycare provider for cleaning and changing a child that had an accident. It seems like it would be a regular part of their job It's not that I don't appreciate the providers, I think they are amazing and say thank you all the time, just not for this specific thing. My 4yo has pee accidents from time to time and we often find out just from getting back pants in a plastic bag.

Anyway just saying the parent may not be a jerk, he may just not realize what a burden the poop blowouts are for the teachers and maybe this needs to be spelled out for him. And yeah I also would not expect them to throw out the clothes. This seems like a basic communication issue.

It is part of the job. Op should
Consider a position teaching older kids if dealing with diapers is such a big issue for her. I mean, I get it, it’s gross, but nurses and nursing home workers also have to do “dirty” jobs, too.

Parents want daycare to be cheaper but constantly want more and more. They complain about cost of Turk toon but believe the teachers should get more money, benefits, etc. and their kids should get more programming. But, they are unwilling to pay more or become flexible on issues such as this. That is the preschool world

Anonymous wrote:TBH it would never occur to me to thank a daycare provider for cleaning and changing a child that had an accident. It seems like it would be a regular part of their job It's not that I don't appreciate the providers, I think they are amazing and say thank you all the time, just not for this specific thing. My 4yo has pee accidents from time to time and we often find out just from getting back pants in a plastic bag.

Anyway just saying the parent may not be a jerk, he may just not realize what a burden the poop blowouts are for the teachers and maybe this needs to be spelled out for him. And yeah I also would not expect them to throw out the clothes. This seems like a basic communication issue.

It is part of the job. Op should
Consider a position teaching older kids if dealing with diapers is such a big issue for her. I mean, I get it, it’s gross, but nurses and nursing home workers also have to do “dirty” jobs, too.

TBH it would never occur to me to thank a daycare provider for cleaning and changing a child that had an accident. It seems like it would be a regular part of their job It's not that I don't appreciate the providers, I think they are amazing and say thank you all the time, just not for this specific thing. My 4yo has pee accidents from time to time and we often find out just from getting back pants in a plastic bag.

Anyway just saying the parent may not be a jerk, he may just not realize what a burden the poop blowouts are for the teachers and maybe this needs to be spelled out for him. And yeah I also would not expect them to throw out the clothes. This seems like a basic communication issue.

Anonymous wrote:The law is pretty clear on this in most states. The day care must attend to the toileting needs of the child. https://law.lis.virginia.gov/admincode/title8/agency20/chapter800/section690/.

I'm jumping in here because we had a child who was very late and also had gastric issues. Turned out DC was autistic but testing wasn't showing it at the time. In fact, testing indicated high I.Q., blah blah blah. I later found out that delayed toileting is common for kids on the spectrum and of course so are digestive issues. Our preschool worked with us on the issue. We started DC in therapy, too, but even the therapist didn't make the link to autism (nor did the peditrician)

Your link is specific to the licensing for "Family Day Homes."

Where is the link to requirements for commercial day cares?

If the child is having blowouts it’s likely he is on Miralax because he has issues with stool holding. I get that this is frustrating for teachers but I feel like there’s more to the story that you aren’t seeing in your frustration with the dad.

Often kids like this who stool hold have developed a mega colon and have decreased sensitivity from their rectum being stretched out due to stool holding. They can have sensory issues that make them hold poop in, so to get them to poop the doctor prescribes Miralax to overcome this behavior. This causes poop to be mushier so they can’t hold it in as well and is basically the only thing a doctor will do for a stool holding kid.

I would not be surprised if this child has issues with stool holding and that he will go on to be diagnosed with some special needs - ASD, ADHD, etc. The child is very young to be diagnosed and there are very few chd care programs for SN kids. The supports that come for special need kids like this often don’t come until later because the child is passing as a
Neurotypical when they aren’t, because they are relatively high functioning. I bet the dad’s frustration has much more to do with long standing challenges with the child’s behavior and the frustration he has from dealing with these issues and then on top of that, facing irritated teachers who are just mad that an almost 4 year old isn’t toilet trained.

As a former teacher who is raising 2 special needs kids myself, OP please take a step
Back and realize there may be a lot more
Going on here that you don’t know
About. Try having a conference with the family if this is such an issue and work together as a team in support of the child - he’s not doing it to anger anyone but the anger around his behavior is only going to worsen things.

It’s standard preschool/daycare protocol to bag up clothes and bedding with vomit, pee or poop into an ziploc and send them home for parents to decide if they want to dispose of them. I agree with dad - don’t dispose of my child’s clothing - allow me to decide since I bought it and it belongs to me. If the child is having this many accidents it’s likely they are blowing through underwear and would prefer to wash them and clean them at home.

The teachers should also be sensitive to realize many kids have accidents and at this age need toileting help with wiping. Often it’s kids with special needs who haven’t been diagnosed yet because they are little - eg autism, etc. Wiling butts is unfortunately part of the job. If you don’t like wiping butts, don’t teach preschool kids and go to an elementary school.

Being mad at a dad who is asking you not to
Throw out clothing and being mad at a child
For having accidents is a sign of someone who is not in the right career. A high degree of patience is required to teach little
Ones.

Our half-day preschool which requires full potty training at age 3 officially tolerates an accident a day. I get that it especially sucks if it's poop accidents, but honestly, that is this age. Especially in a daycare setting where the kids are there all day. Many children poop in the potty at home and struggle to do this at school/daycare.

The father's attitude sucks, so that reduces some of my sympathy, but in general I think daycares have to be realistic about developmentally normal behavior. If I were the daycare I'd consider allowing/encouraging pull-ups if it was getting to be this bad. If that means changing classrooms, maybe that's the solution.

Anonymous wrote:I feel so sad for this poor little boy.
My son had problems like this so I took a demotion and switched to working evenings so I could be with him during the day. My career will never recover but we were able to get past these problems together.

This isn’t about the boy. It is about the father.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What would you think of this?

The child is three (almost four) and is supposed to be potty trained (and the parents stated on his application that he was), and has poo blowouts at day care at least twice a week. He has multiple on demand chances to use the potty, and also is brought to the bathroom on a strict schedule. He still poos in his pants. When the father arrives five minutes before 6:00 p.m. (closing time), he is told that his son had a blowout and the underwear was so soiled it was disposed of. Instead of thanking the provider for cleaning and changing him, he tells her not to throw the underwear out because it is expensive. He states that last week during the other blowout the underwear was disposed of too. Stop doing that, he says. Put it in a plastic bag so he can take it home and his wife will wash it.

Just... stop. No wonder childcare workers are leaving in droves.

This is actually also a pretty standard practice, OP. Our kids went to different daycares and both of them would send home soiled clothing in a plastic bag. Only once was something so bad that I took it outside and threw it away, everything else was able to be rinsed, soaked in oxyclean, and washed. I can 100% see the father's point. It's just as easy to throw it in a plastic bag as it is to toss it in the trash.

Now, the school has every right to demand that they send the child in a diaper going forward, that you demote him to a class that still changes diapers, or kick him out because he is not, in fact, potty trained, but I'm team husband on the poopy underwear.

+1 our daycare has everyone bring in a box of zip lock bags for this purpose.

Anonymous wrote:What would you think of this?

The child is three (almost four) and is supposed to be potty trained (and the parents stated on his application that he was), and has poo blowouts at day care at least twice a week. He has multiple on demand chances to use the potty, and also is brought to the bathroom on a strict schedule. He still poos in his pants. When the father arrives five minutes before 6:00 p.m. (closing time), he is told that his son had a blowout and the underwear was so soiled it was disposed of. Instead of thanking the provider for cleaning and changing him, he tells her not to throw the underwear out because it is expensive. He states that last week during the other blowout the underwear was disposed of too. Stop doing that, he says. Put it in a plastic bag so he can take it home and his wife will wash it.

Just... stop. No wonder childcare workers are leaving in droves.

This is actually also a pretty standard practice, OP. Our kids went to different daycares and both of them would send home soiled clothing in a plastic bag. Only once was something so bad that I took it outside and threw it away, everything else was able to be rinsed, soaked in oxyclean, and washed. I can 100% see the father's point. It's just as easy to throw it in a plastic bag as it is to toss it in the trash.

Now, the school has every right to demand that they send the child in a diaper going forward, that you demote him to a class that still changes diapers, or kick him out because he is not, in fact, potty trained, but I'm team husband on the poopy underwear.