Anonymous
11/14/2023 20:59
Subject: Funding Roth IRA for minor children
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Did your child file taxes? If he only earned $1000 for the year, the Roth IRA can only be funded $1000.
You can pad this with another $400 that would be income like baby sitting that they don't need to pay payroll taxes on.
No, you can’t. There is no “padding” or “would be income.”
This is not entirely true. DH and I opened Roth IRAs two years ago for our now 17 year old DD. We’ve contributed the max each year ($6K last year) and will have put in $6.5K this year. The only real requirement is that DD needs to have at least that much or more in earned income for the year. This is no problem, since she “earns” $7K in household chores and errands. As long as you file a tax return that claims this much in income, you’re good. Best to keep the alleged income low enough to avoid state and federal taxes, of course.
Also, nothing stops you from opening such a Roth IRA and basically using it for yourself as a tax shelter for speculative investing and then withdrawing contributions later for whatever. Profits stay behind and can be pulled to help pay for college, first home, etc….
I wonder what age you could start paying for these chores? Five?
PP here. As long as your child has earned income, you’re good to go. Five seems a bit early, but perfectly legal. The household chores and errands angle works, but you have to state that this earned income is associated with a different household (e.g., like a friendly neighbor). Same applies with walking dogs, watering plants, mowing lawns, and babysitting. As long as the work is for an outside entity, and payment can be in cash, the IRS rules allow it.
"Perfectly legal" as long as you find a friendly someone willing to lie to the IRS for you!
Anonymous
11/14/2023 20:56
Subject: Funding Roth IRA for minor children
If you ever see a kid used in an ad for their parents business, you can bet they are well paid as a 'model'
Anonymous
11/14/2023 20:54
Subject: Funding Roth IRA for minor children
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Did your child file taxes? If he only earned $1000 for the year, the Roth IRA can only be funded $1000.
You can pad this with another $400 that would be income like baby sitting that they don't need to pay payroll taxes on.
No, you can’t. There is no “padding” or “would be income.”
This is not entirely true. DH and I opened Roth IRAs two years ago for our now 17 year old DD. We’ve contributed the max each year ($6K last year) and will have put in $6.5K this year. The only real requirement is that DD needs to have at least that much or more in earned income for the year. This is no problem, since she “earns” $7K in household chores and errands. As long as you file a tax return that claims this much in income, you’re good. Best to keep the alleged income low enough to avoid state and federal taxes, of course.
Also, nothing stops you from opening such a Roth IRA and basically using it for yourself as a tax shelter for speculative investing and then withdrawing contributions later for whatever. Profits stay behind and can be pulled to help pay for college, first home, etc….
I wonder what age you could start paying for these chores? Five?
PP here. As long as your child has earned income, you’re good to go. Five seems a bit early, but perfectly legal. The household chores and errands angle works, but you have to state that this earned income is associated with a different household (e.g., like a friendly neighbor). Same applies with walking dogs, watering plants, mowing lawns, and babysitting. As long as the work is for an outside entity, and payment can be in cash, the IRS rules allow it.
The 'friendly' neighbor has to pay the child for the labor. Otherwise, this is fraud.
Anonymous
11/14/2023 20:51
Subject: Funding Roth IRA for minor children
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Did your child file taxes? If he only earned $1000 for the year, the Roth IRA can only be funded $1000.
You can pad this with another $400 that would be income like baby sitting that they don't need to pay payroll taxes on.
No, you can’t. There is no “padding” or “would be income.”
This is not entirely true. DH and I opened Roth IRAs two years ago for our now 17 year old DD. We’ve contributed the max each year ($6K last year) and will have put in $6.5K this year. The only real requirement is that DD needs to have at least that much or more in earned income for the year. This is no problem, since she “earns” $7K in household chores and errands. As long as you file a tax return that claims this much in income, you’re good. Best to keep the alleged income low enough to avoid state and federal taxes, of course.
Also, nothing stops you from opening such a Roth IRA and basically using it for yourself as a tax shelter for speculative investing and then withdrawing contributions later for whatever. Profits stay behind and can be pulled to help pay for college, first home, etc….
I wonder what age you could start paying for these chores? Five?
PP here. As long as your child has earned income, you’re good to go. Five seems a bit early, but perfectly legal. The household chores and errands angle works, but you have to state that this earned income is associated with a different household (e.g., like a friendly neighbor). Same applies with walking dogs, watering plants, mowing lawns, and babysitting. As long as the work is for an outside entity, and payment can be in cash, the IRS rules allow it.
Anonymous
11/14/2023 18:17
Subject: Funding Roth IRA for minor children
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Did your child file taxes? If he only earned $1000 for the year, the Roth IRA can only be funded $1000.
You can pad this with another $400 that would be income like baby sitting that they don't need to pay payroll taxes on.
No, you can’t. There is no “padding” or “would be income.”
This is not entirely true. DH and I opened Roth IRAs two years ago for our now 17 year old DD. We’ve contributed the max each year ($6K last year) and will have put in $6.5K this year. The only real requirement is that DD needs to have at least that much or more in earned income for the year. This is no problem, since she “earns” $7K in household chores and errands. As long as you file a tax return that claims this much in income, you’re good. Best to keep the alleged income low enough to avoid state and federal taxes, of course.
Also, nothing stops you from opening such a Roth IRA and basically using it for yourself as a tax shelter for speculative investing and then withdrawing contributions later for whatever. Profits stay behind and can be pulled to help pay for college, first home, etc….
I wonder what age you could start paying for these chores? Five?
Try never. PP is encouraging tax fraud.
Anonymous
11/14/2023 15:57
Subject: Funding Roth IRA for minor children
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Did your child file taxes? If he only earned $1000 for the year, the Roth IRA can only be funded $1000.
You can pad this with another $400 that would be income like baby sitting that they don't need to pay payroll taxes on.
No, you can’t. There is no “padding” or “would be income.”
This is not entirely true. DH and I opened Roth IRAs two years ago for our now 17 year old DD. We’ve contributed the max each year ($6K last year) and will have put in $6.5K this year. The only real requirement is that DD needs to have at least that much or more in earned income for the year. This is no problem, since she “earns” $7K in household chores and errands. As long as you file a tax return that claims this much in income, you’re good. Best to keep the alleged income low enough to avoid state and federal taxes, of course.
Also, nothing stops you from opening such a Roth IRA and basically using it for yourself as a tax shelter for speculative investing and then withdrawing contributions later for whatever. Profits stay behind and can be pulled to help pay for college, first home, etc….
I wonder what age you could start paying for these chores? Five?
Anonymous
11/14/2023 14:59
Subject: Funding Roth IRA for minor children
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Did your child file taxes? If he only earned $1000 for the year, the Roth IRA can only be funded $1000.
You can pad this with another $400 that would be income like baby sitting that they don't need to pay payroll taxes on.
No, you can’t. There is no “padding” or “would be income.”
This is not entirely true. DH and I opened Roth IRAs two years ago for our now 17 year old DD. We’ve contributed the max each year ($6K last year) and will have put in $6.5K this year. The only real requirement is that DD needs to have at least that much or more in earned income for the year. This is no problem, since she “earns” $7K in household chores and errands. As long as you file a tax return that claims this much in income, you’re good. Best to keep the alleged income low enough to avoid state and federal taxes, of course.
Also, nothing stops you from opening such a Roth IRA and basically using it for yourself as a tax shelter for speculative investing and then withdrawing contributions later for whatever. Profits stay behind and can be pulled to help pay for college, first home, etc….
PP this is an incredibly dumb gamble. Hope you don’t have a security clearance.
Anonymous
11/14/2023 13:49
Subject: Funding Roth IRA for minor children
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Did your child file taxes? If he only earned $1000 for the year, the Roth IRA can only be funded $1000.
You can pad this with another $400 that would be income like baby sitting that they don't need to pay payroll taxes on.
No, you can’t. There is no “padding” or “would be income.”
This is not entirely true. DH and I opened Roth IRAs two years ago for our now 17 year old DD. We’ve contributed the max each year ($6K last year) and will have put in $6.5K this year. The only real requirement is that DD needs to have at least that much or more in earned income for the year. This is no problem, since she “earns” $7K in household chores and errands. As long as you file a tax return that claims this much in income, you’re good. Best to keep the alleged income low enough to avoid state and federal taxes, of course.
Also, nothing stops you from opening such a Roth IRA and basically using it for yourself as a tax shelter for speculative investing and then withdrawing contributions later for whatever. Profits stay behind and can be pulled to help pay for college, first home, etc….
This does not work under the tax laws for a number of reasons (kid can’t be a household employee, kid isn’t filing sched c income and SE tax, etc).
In theory that makes the Roth IRA an excess contribution with no statute of limitations which could come back and bite your daughter in the future but in practice you may well get away with it.
Anonymous
11/14/2023 12:07
Subject: Funding Roth IRA for minor children
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Did your child file taxes? If he only earned $1000 for the year, the Roth IRA can only be funded $1000.
You can pad this with another $400 that would be income like baby sitting that they don't need to pay payroll taxes on.
No, you can’t. There is no “padding” or “would be income.”
This is not entirely true. DH and I opened Roth IRAs two years ago for our now 17 year old DD. We’ve contributed the max each year ($6K last year) and will have put in $6.5K this year. The only real requirement is that DD needs to have at least that much or more in earned income for the year. This is no problem, since she “earns” $7K in household chores and errands. As long as you file a tax return that claims this much in income, you’re good. Best to keep the alleged income low enough to avoid state and federal taxes, of course.
Also, nothing stops you from opening such a Roth IRA and basically using it for yourself as a tax shelter for speculative investing and then withdrawing contributions later for whatever. Profits stay behind and can be pulled to help pay for college, first home, etc….
Wrong. It is entirely true. What you wrote is not padding or make believe income.
Anonymous
11/14/2023 11:24
Subject: Funding Roth IRA for minor children
Maybe just use the 529 conversion?
https://www.schwab.com/learn/story/529-to-roth-ira-rollovers-what-to-know
https://www.schwab.com/learn/story/529-to-roth-ira-rollovers-what-to-know
Anonymous
11/14/2023 11:17
Subject: Funding Roth IRA for minor children
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Did your child file taxes? If he only earned $1000 for the year, the Roth IRA can only be funded $1000.
You can pad this with another $400 that would be income like baby sitting that they don't need to pay payroll taxes on.
No, you can’t. There is no “padding” or “would be income.”
This is not entirely true. DH and I opened Roth IRAs two years ago for our now 17 year old DD. We’ve contributed the max each year ($6K last year) and will have put in $6.5K this year. The only real requirement is that DD needs to have at least that much or more in earned income for the year. This is no problem, since she “earns” $7K in household chores and errands. As long as you file a tax return that claims this much in income, you’re good. Best to keep the alleged income low enough to avoid state and federal taxes, of course.
Also, nothing stops you from opening such a Roth IRA and basically using it for yourself as a tax shelter for speculative investing and then withdrawing contributions later for whatever. Profits stay behind and can be pulled to help pay for college, first home, etc….
I read that household chores and errands raise an eyebrow from the IRS, and is frowned upon for paid income from parents.
Seriously, especially when even the parent is saying 'she "earns" $7k in household chores and errands' and not trying to hide the fact this is just straight-up fraud.
Fund up to what your kid can legally claim. Don't be an idiot.
Anonymous
11/14/2023 10:30
Subject: Funding Roth IRA for minor children
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Did your child file taxes? If he only earned $1000 for the year, the Roth IRA can only be funded $1000.
You can pad this with another $400 that would be income like baby sitting that they don't need to pay payroll taxes on.
No, you can’t. There is no “padding” or “would be income.”
This is not entirely true. DH and I opened Roth IRAs two years ago for our now 17 year old DD. We’ve contributed the max each year ($6K last year) and will have put in $6.5K this year. The only real requirement is that DD needs to have at least that much or more in earned income for the year. This is no problem, since she “earns” $7K in household chores and errands. As long as you file a tax return that claims this much in income, you’re good. Best to keep the alleged income low enough to avoid state and federal taxes, of course.
Also, nothing stops you from opening such a Roth IRA and basically using it for yourself as a tax shelter for speculative investing and then withdrawing contributions later for whatever. Profits stay behind and can be pulled to help pay for college, first home, etc….
I read that household chores and errands raise an eyebrow from the IRS, and is frowned upon for paid income from parents.
Yeah seems like a good way to get your teenager/yourself audited
Anonymous
11/14/2023 10:29
Subject: Funding Roth IRA for minor children
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Did your child file taxes? If he only earned $1000 for the year, the Roth IRA can only be funded $1000.
You can pad this with another $400 that would be income like baby sitting that they don't need to pay payroll taxes on.
Not a good idea. You do that, then the IRS might ask you to file proper tax docs and pay on that. Not worth it IMO
Anonymous
11/14/2023 10:28
Subject: Funding Roth IRA for minor children
Anonymous wrote:Go to your favorite brokerage and open a custodial Roth IRA account. Fund it up to the amount your kid earned. Invest in something long term like VTSAX or FXAIX.
You must put in the money the year he earned it.
This sums it up. You can only fund it up to the amount your kid earned.
Huge gift to your kid(s) if you can afford to do it. Before our kid graduated college, they had enough in Roth to have over $750K at retirement age. their life will be much easier in their 30s and 40s, if they have front loaded retirement savings before 30.
Anonymous
11/13/2023 22:28
Subject: Funding Roth IRA for minor children
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Did your child file taxes? If he only earned $1000 for the year, the Roth IRA can only be funded $1000.
You can pad this with another $400 that would be income like baby sitting that they don't need to pay payroll taxes on.
No, you can’t. There is no “padding” or “would be income.”
This is not entirely true. DH and I opened Roth IRAs two years ago for our now 17 year old DD. We’ve contributed the max each year ($6K last year) and will have put in $6.5K this year. The only real requirement is that DD needs to have at least that much or more in earned income for the year. This is no problem, since she “earns” $7K in household chores and errands. As long as you file a tax return that claims this much in income, you’re good. Best to keep the alleged income low enough to avoid state and federal taxes, of course.
Also, nothing stops you from opening such a Roth IRA and basically using it for yourself as a tax shelter for speculative investing and then withdrawing contributions later for whatever. Profits stay behind and can be pulled to help pay for college, first home, etc….
BTW, this is a neat trick, put pales in comparison to the one in which DH and I both have HDHP plans, both have HSAs, and both contribute the family max to each of our HSA accounts. Our entire family is double insured (at employer cost), but also we’re capitalizing on double the triple tax benefit offered by HSAs. That’s a nearly $15K pre-tax deduction for families with two working parents! Gotta take advantage of the extra breaks when possible.