Anonymous wrote:Palestinians historically reject two state solutions. They had the chance in 1947, 2000, and 2008 and turned it down each time.

If I invaded your house with the help of thugs, got the thugs to divide it in two unequal parts, and then assigned you the smaller part on a take-it-or-leave-it basis, would you accepted?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No. I don't see any politically palatable way to divide the west bank. I think we're a generation away from a one state solution being imposed on Israel one the politics in the US shifts

The US doesn’t have that kind of power. We can take away our funding, but it’s not like Israel will fold. Israel is too resilient for that.

Any kind of peace deal will be done on their terms.

Look at South Africa if you want the template. Divestment and boycotts with some sanctions are enough to force policy in a country that is in no way self sufficient economically. It won't happen for a long time, but the polling make it clear that millennials and gen z do not support Israel the same way the boomers do

How are those sanctions working on Iran and Russia? Sure, it hurts, but there are ways to survive. The Jewish people have a long history of enduring persecution. In their minds, what’s one more?

You can’t force them to give up a Jewish state short of military force, which we won’t do.

Iran and Russia weren’t created by the West just 70 years ago, honey. Iran and Russia don’t depend on the West for protection from their enemies. Iran and Russia’s permanent borders don’t depend on the West’s agreement. Israel’s couldn’t even name Jerusalem its own capital city until Trump agreed.

Israel is the West’s last colonial project and when the West abandons it, it’s over.

Anonymous wrote:No. I don't see any politically palatable way to divide the west bank. I think we're a generation away from a one state solution being imposed on Israel one the politics in the US shifts

Yup. The generation that could be emotionally blackmailed into enabling Israel’s illegalities is dying out and the decline of religiosity among Americans means bible-based support for Israel is also on its last legs. Israel can look forward to becoming a pariah state within 50 years max.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No. I don't see any politically palatable way to divide the west bank. I think we're a generation away from a one state solution being imposed on Israel one the politics in the US shifts

The US doesn’t have that kind of power. We can take away our funding, but it’s not like Israel will fold. Israel is too resilient for that.

Any kind of peace deal will be done on their terms.

Look at South Africa if you want the template. Divestment and boycotts with some sanctions are enough to force policy in a country that is in no way self sufficient economically. It won't happen for a long time, but the polling make it clear that millennials and gen z do not support Israel the same way the boomers do

How are those sanctions working on Iran and Russia? Sure, it hurts, but there are ways to survive. The Jewish people have a long history of enduring persecution. In their minds, what’s one more?

You can’t force them to give up a Jewish state short of military force, which we won’t do.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No. I don't see any politically palatable way to divide the west bank. I think we're a generation away from a one state solution being imposed on Israel one the politics in the US shifts

The US doesn’t have that kind of power. We can take away our funding, but it’s not like Israel will fold. Israel is too resilient for that.

Any kind of peace deal will be done on their terms.

Of course the U.S. has that kind of power. Israel has no friends among any of the developing and non-Western nations of the world. It owes its economic development, military might, and very existence to the West’s ongoing sponsorship, which is why Israel does not make a move without the express agreement or tacit collusion of the West. If the U.S. placed an embargo on Israel today as punishment for its theft of Palestinian land or simply signaled to the Arab countries around Israel that the U.S. will no longer protect Israel, it would be a countdown to Israel capitulating in the face of certain destruction.

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:First this is a long way off as a PP mentioned.

I am wondering whether the only realistic two state solution at this point is resettling the illegal West Bank settlers into Gaza and let Israel rebuild Gaza legally. Israel says it plans on occupying Gaza anyway.

Resettle Palestinians from Gaza in West Bank, which is renamed Palestine.

Then Work hard on building diplomatic relations between Israel and Palestine and normalizing relations between both of them and neighboring Arab countries.
.

The Israelis have no real interest in Gaza. But, the West Bank is full of Jewish holy sites. That's one reason for the settlements. There is no way to dislodge the settlers short of using force because many of them consider it their religious duty to live there. This is one reason that the chances of a two-state solution are so dismal.

Do you think that Israel needs to make difficult compromises if it wants to survive in a hostile Region and also recognize West Bank as primarily belonging to Palestinians as the UN and many countries do? Surrendering Gaza to Israel would be a major concession by Palestinians as it is. It obviously will Need major reconstruction work.

There are also many Christian and Muslim holy sites in the West Bank. https://www.beinharimtours.com/holy-sites-in-the-west-bank/

Perhaps a two state solution would require rights of access to holy sites for all theee major religious groups.

Recap:

The State of Palestine has been accepted as an observer state of the United Nations General Assembly in November 2012. As of 31 July 2019, 138 of the 193 United Nations (UN) member states have recognized the State of Palestine (Israel is recognized by 165).

The State of Palestine had been officially proclaimed by the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO) in 15 November 1988, claiming sovereignty over the internationally recognized Palestinian territories: the West Bank, which includes East Jerusalem, and the Gaza Strip. By the end of 1988, the proclaimed Palestinian state was recognized by 78 countries.

In 2011, the State of Palestine was admitted into UNESCO; in 2012, after it was accepted as an observer state of the United Nations General Assembly with the votes of 138 member states of the United Nations, the Palestinian National Authority started officially using the name "State of Palestine" for all purposes.

Among the G20, nine countries (Argentina, Brazil, China, India, Indonesia, Russia, Saudi Arabia, South Africa, and Turkey) have recognized Palestine as a state (Indonesia and Saudi Arabia only recognize Palestine) while ten countries (Australia, Canada, France, Germany, Italy, Japan, South Korea, Mexico, the United Kingdom, and the United States) have not. Although these countries generally support some form of two-state solution to the conflict, they take the position that their recognition of a Palestinian state is conditioned to direct negotiations between Israel and the PNA.

Anonymous wrote:I am a firm believer than a 2-state solution is the only palatable one. Status quo is just not workable and it’s frankly immoral and unfair to the Palestinians. A one-state solution would result in mass murders and expulsions of Jews. The world can’t let that happen again.

The Israelis did make a good-faith start towards a 2-state Soltan and they get zero credit for it in the media today. They turned Gaza over to the Palestinians in 2005. Hopefully a true leader can emerge on the Palestinian side who can lead them to a “redo” of that. If the start of a 2-state solution can emerge from the ashes of Gaza, that could start the long journey to liberating the West Bank.

They withdrew from a strip of land that was incapable of supporting the 2 million inhabitants living there (the majority of who were forced out of Israel proper).

Anonymous wrote:I am a firm believer than a 2-state solution is the only palatable one. Status quo is just not workable and it’s frankly immoral and unfair to the Palestinians. A one-state solution would result in mass murders and expulsions of Jews. The world can’t let that happen again.

The Israelis did make a good-faith start towards a 2-state Soltan and they get zero credit for it in the media today. They turned Gaza over to the Palestinians in 2005. Hopefully a true leader can emerge on the Palestinian side who can lead them to a “redo” of that. If the start of a 2-state solution can emerge from the ashes of Gaza, that could start the long journey to liberating the West Bank.

The Jews of Israel are currently mass murdering and expelling Palestinians. Why are Jews entitled to protection from what they are doing to others? I ask this as a Jew, so miss me with the “antisemitism” emotional blackmail.

It was possible once upon a time, but it’s simply not possible now. Israel has deliberately made it physically and geographically impossible by honeycombing the West Bank with illegal settlements. The U.S. and Europe stood by and allowed Israel to do it, so their actions tell the story of what they really think of the two-state solution.

This either ends in a one-state solution over Israel’s objection that it is entitled to maintain an ethnic majority through force of law OR a genocide and permanent theft of all the land from the Palestinians from the land à la the Armenian genocide.

I am a firm believer than a 2-state solution is the only palatable one. Status quo is just not workable and it’s frankly immoral and unfair to the Palestinians. A one-state solution would result in mass murders and expulsions of Jews. The world can’t let that happen again.

The Israelis did make a good-faith start towards a 2-state Soltan and they get zero credit for it in the media today. They turned Gaza over to the Palestinians in 2005. Hopefully a true leader can emerge on the Palestinian side who can lead them to a “redo” of that. If the start of a 2-state solution can emerge from the ashes of Gaza, that could start the long journey to liberating the West Bank.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No. I don't see any politically palatable way to divide the west bank. I think we're a generation away from a one state solution being imposed on Israel one the politics in the US shifts

The US doesn’t have that kind of power. We can take away our funding, but it’s not like Israel will fold. Israel is too resilient for that.

Any kind of peace deal will be done on their terms.

Look at South Africa if you want the template. Divestment and boycotts with some sanctions are enough to force policy in a country that is in no way self sufficient economically. It won't happen for a long time, but the polling make it clear that millennials and gen z do not support Israel the same way the boomers do

Anonymous wrote:No. I don't see any politically palatable way to divide the west bank. I think we're a generation away from a one state solution being imposed on Israel one the politics in the US shifts

The US doesn’t have that kind of power. We can take away our funding, but it’s not like Israel will fold. Israel is too resilient for that.

Any kind of peace deal will be done on their terms.

That place is doomed, there is no hope. They are a match made in hell and neither side is blameless.
Perhaps we should just take a step back and exit this conflict

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:First this is a long way off as a PP mentioned.

I am wondering whether the only realistic two state solution at this point is resettling the illegal West Bank settlers into Gaza and let Israel rebuild Gaza legally. Israel says it plans on occupying Gaza anyway.

Resettle Palestinians from Gaza in West Bank, which is renamed Palestine.

Then Work hard on building diplomatic relations between Israel and Palestine and normalizing relations between both of them and neighboring Arab countries.
.

The Israelis have no real interest in Gaza. But, the West Bank is full of Jewish holy sites. That's one reason for the settlements. There is no way to dislodge the settlers short of using force because many of them consider it their religious duty to live there. This is one reason that the chances of a two-state solution are so dismal.

So do you think there is any chance for a realistic one state solution?

No. I don't see any politically palatable way to divide the west bank. I think we're a generation away from a one state solution being imposed on Israel one the politics in the US shifts