Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Race is not part of the application anymore, folks. My kid just applied. There’s no “race box” anymore. You can talk about your race in your essay if you want to but that’s it.

Wrong - it is still part of the common app - you chose whether you fill it in.

It is on almost all requests for info on schools websites - some are optional, some are not but for those you can chose decline to report or check the “other” box. So if SCOTUS says they can use race, why are they still collecting it? Because they use it. 🤨

It's not used for admission but is used for data collection to see how many X are admitted to the school. It's still a useful statistic. Same as knowing how many women vs men.

They cannot use for admissions purposes, but they can use for recruitment purposes. That is, if they'd like more URM students, they can send more emails to those students or somehow do something else to encourage applications. URMs are far less likely to apply to top schools for many reasons. So if they can ID those students, they can try to increase # of applications with the theory that they will have then have more qualified applicants in the pool. Once admitted, they can also follow up with whatever segment of students they'd like, and encourage them to come. (Again, URMs are less likely to accept the admissions offers-- schools are far from home, concerns about $$, concerns about whether they would thrive in the community, etc.--- so such followup might help them seal the deal on people they have already admitted.)

So you are also confirming that they use it. My point has been if they cannot use it it needs to be removed from common app, all
school questionnaires etc. It should be a data point the applicant provides AFTER they are accepted - if the reason for having it is to provide statistics on who was admitted/who accepted.

This is what I always thought would be done too. I was shocked to see the race box still there on the common app. I agree if they aren't using race as a factor and legally can't use it as a factor for admission: then don't ask at all.

Once the student has enrolled--they can have a questionnaire then. Leaving the question there raises many issues.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Race is not part of the application anymore, folks. My kid just applied. There’s no “race box” anymore. You can talk about your race in your essay if you want to but that’s it.

Wrong - it is still part of the common app - you chose whether you fill it in.

It is on almost all requests for info on schools websites - some are optional, some are not but for those you can chose decline to report or check the “other” box. So if SCOTUS says they can use race, why are they still collecting it? Because they use it. 🤨

It's not used for admission but is used for data collection to see how many X are admitted to the school. It's still a useful statistic. Same as knowing how many women vs men.

They cannot use for admissions purposes, but they can use for recruitment purposes. That is, if they'd like more URM students, they can send more emails to those students or somehow do something else to encourage applications. URMs are far less likely to apply to top schools for many reasons. So if they can ID those students, they can try to increase # of applications with the theory that they will have then have more qualified applicants in the pool. Once admitted, they can also follow up with whatever segment of students they'd like, and encourage them to come. (Again, URMs are less likely to accept the admissions offers-- schools are far from home, concerns about $$, concerns about whether they would thrive in the community, etc.--- so such followup might help them seal the deal on people they have already admitted.)

So you are also confirming that they use it. My point has been if they cannot use it it needs to be removed from common app, all
school questionnaires etc. It should be a data point the applicant provides AFTER they are accepted - if the reason for having it is to provide statistics on who was admitted/who accepted.

Why would you counsel your kid to lie? The information is necessary or useful for all kinds of reasons unrelated to admissions. For starters, knowing the race of all applicants (after the admissions decisions have been made) is relevant to figuring out whether a university is discriminating, whether they want to focus marketing on certain groups or areas of the country (which is legal), etc. it’s also important to have those statistics about the enrolled class so that potential applicants can have information about demographic mix (just like gender mix) when deciding whether to apply. Some applicants may not want to apply to a school that has a significant gender imbalance or a low number of students that share their racial heritage, for example.

It is important for gathering data for financial aid - if a school has the wrong data - they will not allocate the right amount (more) of financial aid. I am shocked how few people understand how the system really works, and how much misinformation is being spread.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Race is not part of the application anymore, folks. My kid just applied. There’s no “race box” anymore. You can talk about your race in your essay if you want to but that’s it.

Wrong - it is still part of the common app - you chose whether you fill it in.

It is on almost all requests for info on schools websites - some are optional, some are not but for those you can chose decline to report or check the “other” box. So if SCOTUS says they can use race, why are they still collecting it? Because they use it. 🤨

It's not used for admission but is used for data collection to see how many X are admitted to the school. It's still a useful statistic. Same as knowing how many women vs men.

They cannot use for admissions purposes, but they can use for recruitment purposes. That is, if they'd like more URM students, they can send more emails to those students or somehow do something else to encourage applications. URMs are far less likely to apply to top schools for many reasons. So if they can ID those students, they can try to increase # of applications with the theory that they will have then have more qualified applicants in the pool. Once admitted, they can also follow up with whatever segment of students they'd like, and encourage them to come. (Again, URMs are less likely to accept the admissions offers-- schools are far from home, concerns about $$, concerns about whether they would thrive in the community, etc.--- so such followup might help them seal the deal on people they have already admitted.)

So you are also confirming that they use it. My point has been if they cannot use it it needs to be removed from common app, all
school questionnaires etc. It should be a data point the applicant provides AFTER they are accepted - if the reason for having it is to provide statistics on who was admitted/who accepted.

Why would you counsel your kid to lie? The information is necessary or useful for all kinds of reasons unrelated to admissions. For starters, knowing the race of all applicants (after the admissions decisions have been made) is relevant to figuring out whether a university is discriminating, whether they want to focus marketing on certain groups or areas of the country (which is legal), etc. it’s also important to have those statistics about the enrolled class so that potential applicants can have information about demographic mix (just like gender mix) when deciding whether to apply. Some applicants may not want to apply to a school that has a significant gender imbalance or a low number of students that share their racial heritage, for example.

Anonymous wrote:Asking again.. If it's *illegal* to use race as a factor but the system is asking for it anyway, is it wrong to provide fake information? e.g. White kid checking the Black box on the common app. Can a school subsequently penalize an applicant for this?

If the answer is no, everyone should do that. Just fake it up until the information becomes useless and they stop asking for it.

You can get thrown out of college or have your degree rescinded for lying on your application. I have seen it. Do not do that. That would be unbelievably stupid, and your actions would severely punish your child.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Race is not part of the application anymore, folks. My kid just applied. There’s no “race box” anymore. You can talk about your race in your essay if you want to but that’s it.

Wrong - it is still part of the common app - you chose whether you fill it in.

It is on almost all requests for info on schools websites - some are optional, some are not but for those you can chose decline to report or check the “other” box. So if SCOTUS says they can use race, why are they still collecting it? Because they use it. 🤨

It's not used for admission but is used for data collection to see how many X are admitted to the school. It's still a useful statistic. Same as knowing how many women vs men.

They cannot use for admissions purposes, but they can use for recruitment purposes. That is, if they'd like more URM students, they can send more emails to those students or somehow do something else to encourage applications. URMs are far less likely to apply to top schools for many reasons. So if they can ID those students, they can try to increase # of applications with the theory that they will have then have more qualified applicants in the pool. Once admitted, they can also follow up with whatever segment of students they'd like, and encourage them to come. (Again, URMs are less likely to accept the admissions offers-- schools are far from home, concerns about $$, concerns about whether they would thrive in the community, etc.--- so such followup might help them seal the deal on people they have already admitted.)

So you are also confirming that they use it. My point has been if they cannot use it it needs to be removed from common app, all
school questionnaires etc. It should be a data point the applicant provides AFTER they are accepted - if the reason for having it is to provide statistics on who was admitted/who accepted.

Schools buy data from many sources. Census.gov being one of them. They know if your kids' school is rich or poor or middle class or Black or Brown or Asian or White. They know the size of the average family, whether or not most homes are dual or single parent. They know head of household education levels. The Common App is not much of a target a far as that data goes.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Race is not part of the application anymore, folks. My kid just applied. There’s no “race box” anymore. You can talk about your race in your essay if you want to but that’s it.

Wrong - it is still part of the common app - you chose whether you fill it in.

It is on almost all requests for info on schools websites - some are optional, some are not but for those you can chose decline to report or check the “other” box. So if SCOTUS says they can use race, why are they still collecting it? Because they use it. 🤨

It's not used for admission but is used for data collection to see how many X are admitted to the school. It's still a useful statistic. Same as knowing how many women vs men.

They cannot use for admissions purposes, but they can use for recruitment purposes. That is, if they'd like more URM students, they can send more emails to those students or somehow do something else to encourage applications. URMs are far less likely to apply to top schools for many reasons. So if they can ID those students, they can try to increase # of applications with the theory that they will have then have more qualified applicants in the pool. Once admitted, they can also follow up with whatever segment of students they'd like, and encourage them to come. (Again, URMs are less likely to accept the admissions offers-- schools are far from home, concerns about $$, concerns about whether they would thrive in the community, etc.--- so such followup might help them seal the deal on people they have already admitted.)

So you are also confirming that they use it. My point has been if they cannot use it it needs to be removed from common app, all
school questionnaires etc. It should be a data point the applicant provides AFTER they are accepted - if the reason for having it is to provide statistics on who was admitted/who accepted.

You can enter whatever you like. The schools won't see it during the review process. But there is some chance they will see it if/when your kid is offered admission. At that point the question is "Who did you lie too?" Was it to the school or to the third party? And does it matter?

Go ahead and find out. If offers start getting rescinded then we'll know

Asking again.. If it's *illegal* to use race as a factor but the system is asking for it anyway, is it wrong to provide fake information? e.g. White kid checking the Black box on the common app. Can a school subsequently penalize an applicant for this?

If the answer is no, everyone should do that. Just fake it up until the information becomes useless and they stop asking for it.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Race is not part of the application anymore, folks. My kid just applied. There’s no “race box” anymore. You can talk about your race in your essay if you want to but that’s it.

Wrong - it is still part of the common app - you chose whether you fill it in.

It is on almost all requests for info on schools websites - some are optional, some are not but for those you can chose decline to report or check the “other” box. So if SCOTUS says they can use race, why are they still collecting it? Because they use it. 🤨

Yes. Correct. It's there, but you can leave it blank.

I feel ---FK it if SCOTUS says it's no longer legal--why volunteer the information?

UVA - 18% Asian, 6% Multi-racial
W&M - 12% Asian, 7% Multi-racial
VT - 11% Asian, 5% Multi-racial

In Virginia, the demographic is 7% Asian and 3% Multi-racial. There are no disadvantages to applying as an Asian or White/Asian student. This disadvantage lies in applying for popular majors, like engineering and computer science or medicine. Most Asians are applying to those competitive majors. That is the issue at play.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Race is not part of the application anymore, folks. My kid just applied. There’s no “race box” anymore. You can talk about your race in your essay if you want to but that’s it.

Wrong - it is still part of the common app - you chose whether you fill it in.

It is on almost all requests for info on schools websites - some are optional, some are not but for those you can chose decline to report or check the “other” box. So if SCOTUS says they can use race, why are they still collecting it? Because they use it. 🤨

It's not used for admission but is used for data collection to see how many X are admitted to the school. It's still a useful statistic. Same as knowing how many women vs men.

They cannot use for admissions purposes, but they can use for recruitment purposes. That is, if they'd like more URM students, they can send more emails to those students or somehow do something else to encourage applications. URMs are far less likely to apply to top schools for many reasons. So if they can ID those students, they can try to increase # of applications with the theory that they will have then have more qualified applicants in the pool. Once admitted, they can also follow up with whatever segment of students they'd like, and encourage them to come. (Again, URMs are less likely to accept the admissions offers-- schools are far from home, concerns about $$, concerns about whether they would thrive in the community, etc.--- so such followup might help them seal the deal on people they have already admitted.)

I feel like this thread was accidentally pulled from the archives. The questions and some responses are so out of date.

Universities do not pay attention to any 'box' indicating race anymore. Although the common app has a question like this, for the vast majority of schools, the data are only sent to them after admissions decisions are done (so they can keep track for statistical purposes).

It's possible that universities will pay attention to surname or some other indication of race on the application (they're technically not supposed to, but once they see information they can't un-see it).

So all you have to do is to write the applications in a way where race is not obvious. (You can skip the race question or not-- it's not part of the application that most universities will have in front of them when making decisions.)

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Race is not part of the application anymore, folks. My kid just applied. There’s no “race box” anymore. You can talk about your race in your essay if you want to but that’s it.

Wrong - it is still part of the common app - you chose whether you fill it in.

It is on almost all requests for info on schools websites - some are optional, some are not but for those you can chose decline to report or check the “other” box. So if SCOTUS says they can use race, why are they still collecting it? Because they use it. 🤨

There was a disclaimer on the common app that listed the data points each school opted out of. No race data. No SSN. Etc.

The universities understand very well that there is a wolf pack of lawyers out there waiting for one to slip up. I doubt any will.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Race is not part of the application anymore, folks. My kid just applied. There’s no “race box” anymore. You can talk about your race in your essay if you want to but that’s it.

Wrong - it is still part of the common app - you chose whether you fill it in.

It is on almost all requests for info on schools websites - some are optional, some are not but for those you can chose decline to report or check the “other” box. So if SCOTUS says they can use race, why are they still collecting it? Because they use it. 🤨

It's not used for admission but is used for data collection to see how many X are admitted to the school. It's still a useful statistic. Same as knowing how many women vs men.

Anonymous wrote:Race is not part of the application anymore, folks. My kid just applied. There’s no “race box” anymore. You can talk about your race in your essay if you want to but that’s it.

Wrong - it is still part of the common app - you chose whether you fill it in.

It is on almost all requests for info on schools websites - some are optional, some are not but for those you can chose decline to report or check the “other” box. So if SCOTUS says they can use race, why are they still collecting it? Because they use it. 🤨