Anonymous
Post 11/02/2023 13:52     Subject: SAT/ACT single most predictive factor at Yale
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Thanks for sharing, interesting. Requiring scores also helps keep out the upper echelon riff raft. Those privileged over-counseled blood suckers go TO because they don’t have the chops.


LOL. As if plenty of 1500+ scores aren’t the result of intensive, expensive test prep and multiple tries. Come on.


LOL. As if your kid can even approach 1500+ after 'intensive, expensive test prep and multiple tries. Come on.'
Anonymous
Post 11/02/2023 13:47     Subject: SAT/ACT single most predictive factor at Yale
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:The average SAT score is 1028. The average ACT score is 19.

Test scores are extremely predictive of college success. That's why there are a ton of scholarships available for high scores. You want a free ride to Alabama? 32-36 will do it. But test optional is not going away. Colleges love the extra applications. But don't think for a minute that your kid in Bethesda or Arlington can get away with not submitting test scores, unless they have some kind of hook.

For the elite schools, your white kid from the burbs is not getting in without a 1500+ or 34. Plus the 4.0. And what makes things annoying is that TO has bumped up average test scores to the stratosphere. It's tough out there.


Not true.
White kid. 33.
In at Cornell last year.


Agriculture? Architecture? Business? Hospitality?


Business
Anonymous
Post 11/02/2023 13:40     Subject: SAT/ACT single most predictive factor at Yale
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:The average SAT score is 1028. The average ACT score is 19.

Test scores are extremely predictive of college success. That's why there are a ton of scholarships available for high scores. You want a free ride to Alabama? 32-36 will do it. But test optional is not going away. Colleges love the extra applications. But don't think for a minute that your kid in Bethesda or Arlington can get away with not submitting test scores, unless they have some kind of hook.

For the elite schools, your white kid from the burbs is not getting in without a 1500+ or 34. Plus the 4.0. And what makes things annoying is that TO has bumped up average test scores to the stratosphere. It's tough out there.


Not true.
White kid. 33.
In at Cornell last year.


Agriculture? Architecture? Business? Hospitality?
Anonymous
Post 11/02/2023 13:35     Subject: SAT/ACT single most predictive factor at Yale
Anonymous wrote:This is one reason the PSAT awards are so valuable. If you get “commended” and/or NRSTRA/NAARA/NHRA/etc. you can report the award, reassuring the school that you’re over the bar, while still keeping your actual SAT score out of their CDS data.


yep, and then you don't have to beat yourself up trying to get a 1550.

Getting commended on the PSAT is a heck of a lot easier than getting the 1550 and plus you're one and done. This is seriously the way to go.
Anonymous
Post 11/02/2023 13:34     Subject: SAT/ACT single most predictive factor at Yale
Anonymous wrote:The average SAT score is 1028. The average ACT score is 19.

Test scores are extremely predictive of college success. That's why there are a ton of scholarships available for high scores. You want a free ride to Alabama? 32-36 will do it. But test optional is not going away. Colleges love the extra applications. But don't think for a minute that your kid in Bethesda or Arlington can get away with not submitting test scores, unless they have some kind of hook.

For the elite schools, your white kid from the burbs is not getting in without a 1500+ or 34. Plus the 4.0. And what makes things annoying is that TO has bumped up average test scores to the stratosphere. It's tough out there.


Not true.
White kid. 33.
In at Cornell last year.
Anonymous
Post 11/02/2023 13:33     Subject: SAT/ACT single most predictive factor at Yale
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:More evidence says high school performance is the strongest indicator.


Says the parent whose kid has a 4.4 GPA and is a “bad test taker.” LOL


LMAO Those parents are so desperate. This "bad test taker" myth has to be biggest crock of BS that I've seen cooked up in years.
Anonymous
Post 11/02/2023 13:31     Subject: SAT/ACT single most predictive factor at Yale
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
1. They said it’s most predictive factor period. As I wrote above, it was also said that “Yale found the math score to be particularly predictive for persistence as a science major.” Dartmouth was already on record for that.


It's almost like they're not good at educating undergraduates. Sure, a kid with an 800 in math will find it easier to do a science major without any need for remediation. But that means they're relying on high schools (and test prep companies) to do all the work. Guess they're not really able and willing to help the brilliant future scientists with a 700 or, gasp, 650, achieve that same success over four full years.


That’s actually true about remediation. They do expect the high schools to teach high school math, which doesn’t always work out. I’ve been told many science professors aren’t interested in remedial education at at least one Ivy (and almost certainly others). Reasonable minds may differ as to whether that’s reasonable.


which one?
Anonymous
Post 11/02/2023 13:28     Subject: SAT/ACT single most predictive factor at Yale
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:This is one reason the PSAT awards are so valuable. If you get “commended” and/or NRSTRA/NAARA/NHRA/etc. you can report the award, reassuring the school that you’re over the bar, while still keeping your actual SAT score out of their CDS data.


x 100 This. A nuanced take.


yup..PSAT is the SAT...
Anonymous
Post 11/02/2023 13:26     Subject: SAT/ACT single most predictive factor at Yale
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
1. They said it’s most predictive factor period. As I wrote above, it was also said that “Yale found the math score to be particularly predictive for persistence as a science major.” Dartmouth was already on record for that.


It's almost like they're not good at educating undergraduates. Sure, a kid with an 800 in math will find it easier to do a science major without any need for remediation. But that means they're relying on high schools (and test prep companies) to do all the work. Guess they're not really able and willing to help the brilliant future scientists with a 700 or, gasp, 650, achieve that same success over four full years.


That’s actually true about remediation. They do expect the high schools to teach high school math, which doesn’t always work out. I’ve been told many science professors aren’t interested in remedial education at at least one Ivy (and almost certainly others). Reasonable minds may differ as to whether that’s reasonable.
Anonymous
Post 11/02/2023 13:25     Subject: SAT/ACT single most predictive factor at Yale
The average SAT score is 1028. The average ACT score is 19.

Test scores are extremely predictive of college success. That's why there are a ton of scholarships available for high scores. You want a free ride to Alabama? 32-36 will do it. But test optional is not going away. Colleges love the extra applications. But don't think for a minute that your kid in Bethesda or Arlington can get away with not submitting test scores, unless they have some kind of hook.

For the elite schools, your white kid from the burbs is not getting in without a 1500+ or 34. Plus the 4.0. And what makes things annoying is that TO has bumped up average test scores to the stratosphere. It's tough out there.
Anonymous
Post 11/02/2023 13:22     Subject: SAT/ACT single most predictive factor at Yale
Anonymous wrote:So, I listened to the whole thing, and there’s some nuance here. A couple of things:

1. He says test scores are particularly predictive on the math side, which seems consistent with what some other schools have said.

2. It’s clear that having test scores makes the academic threshold process much easier—it allows them to say, “yup, test score backs up transcript, this candidate moves on.” So it makes sense that they’d want the scores! And it presumably means (as has been said multiple times) that a very strong transcript with very strong rigor is even more important for TO students to get past the academic screen. Seems clear that good test scores can be really helpful for a borderline academic case.

3. He makes the point that once past the academic screen, test scores are not part of the admissions committee conversation. This helps debunk the oft-repeated idea that if a school is making a decision between two students, the one with the scores/higher scores is obviously going to be selected. Committee is holistic.

4. At the end, he says “I believe test optional admissions is here to stay.” He recommends that current juniors take a test and see how they do to keep options open but also not see it has terribly high stakes since TO is likely to continue.


There's your takeaway.

People can fight against TO and complain, but it's here to stay folks.

IF a few highly selective colleges revert back to mandating the SAT/ACT, 90%+ of the applicants are getting rejected anyways regardless of standardized tests.
Anonymous
Post 11/02/2023 13:19     Subject: SAT/ACT single most predictive factor at Yale
Anonymous wrote:
1. They said it’s most predictive factor period. As I wrote above, it was also said that “Yale found the math score to be particularly predictive for persistence as a science major.” Dartmouth was already on record for that.


It's almost like they're not good at educating undergraduates. Sure, a kid with an 800 in math will find it easier to do a science major without any need for remediation. But that means they're relying on high schools (and test prep companies) to do all the work. Guess they're not really able and willing to help the brilliant future scientists with a 700 or, gasp, 650, achieve that same success over four full years.
Anonymous
Post 11/02/2023 13:14     Subject: SAT/ACT single most predictive factor at Yale
It makes sense that GPA wouldn't be predictive for success at Yale since they're basically only admitting A and A/B students. The test scores can ID some of the applicants who may not be prepared despite a good transcript.

In the context of another applicant pool, like for a lower-tier school, the C students they're admitting are probably more likely to struggle than the ones with lower test scores.
Anonymous
Post 11/02/2023 13:14     Subject: SAT/ACT single most predictive factor at Yale
Yes I believe it. And supports what we saw last year at our private.

Also hearing it’s why they are more inclined to ding high income TO applicants across the board.

The crazy people on here, who would not submit a 33 and instead go test optional to a top 10 school do themself a disservice.

While it might not get you in, being relatively high income w/college educated prof parents and/or white or Asian, and not submitting tests, hurts you.
Anonymous
Post 11/02/2023 13:12     Subject: SAT/ACT single most predictive factor at Yale
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:More evidence says high school performance is the strongest indicator.


Says the parent whose kid has a 4.4 GPA and is a “bad test taker.” LOL


I was the opposite, I took easy classes and got bad grades in both high school and college, but scored high on the SAT. Now I manage people who went to more prestigious colleges who have degrees relevant to our work.