Anonymous
Post 10/21/2023 12:06     Subject: Is CS a trade like plumbing, HVAC, etc?
Writing code is 100% a trade. You don't need a degree. I'm older and frankly most programmers I know/knew are self taught. Next time you use your ATM card just remember some guy just winging it without any college made your life just that much more convenient!
Anonymous
Post 10/21/2023 12:04     Subject: Is CS a trade like plumbing, HVAC, etc?
Anonymous wrote:I am starting to realize the giants (Bill Gates, Steve Jobs, Mark Zuckerberg, Larry Ellison) never even finished college. And the news is full of young people doing important work even though they are self-taught or learned at home. So, if one does not HAVE to go to college to be a software engineer then is it fair to call it a journeyman trade? To be clear you can't practice law, or be a civil engineer, or medical doctor, or a certified public accountant, etc. without earning a college degree and being licensed. That is not the case with all these software engineer jobs is it? I know there are certifications out there but they are not regulated by the government like law and medicine. And I'm not talking about actual computer science where they invent quantum machines and stuff. I'm talking about "software engineering" or however else it is called.


In many (maybe most) countries law really is a trade and works completely different than the US.
Anonymous
Post 10/21/2023 12:02     Subject: Re:Is CS a trade like plumbing, HVAC, etc?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:My husband was an Econ major who became an expert in computer software development at his first job. He went independent after a few years and was making $400k by his early 30s. Never took a CS course.


Yea. I'm sure it is within the realm of possibility that someone could teach themselves surgery or engineering but I wouldn't hire one to build a bridge over the Potomac or cut into my chest.


You hire an engineering firm to build the bridge…if the firm has a great track record of building bridges that don’t collapse, you don’t care if their engineers have a certificate (though they all do).

On a personal level, many people trust their contractors to build structurally sound rooms on their house. Many people are more than happy to avoid the permitting process and save $$$s…happens all the time.

Even if you do it all above board, if you have an experienced builder, you are literally paying for the structural engineer’s stamp. Often times they spend 5 minutes reviewing the plans, know they are good and then charging you $2500 for that stamp.
Anonymous
Post 10/21/2023 12:01     Subject: Re:Is CS a trade like plumbing, HVAC, etc?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
CS degree requires high level of math.

I don't think plumbing and hvac require that.

good luck getting a job without a degree



Completely not accurate. Lots of IT and SWE government contractors do NOT college degree. I've seen it first hand at places such as NIH, NIST and NASA.


Many of the gov contractors have equivalent specialized military backgrounds.



No, they all have degrees.


How would you know? Source?
Anonymous
Post 10/21/2023 11:40     Subject: Is CS a trade like plumbing, HVAC, etc?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Are all jobs on Wall Street the same, requiring the same degree?

Are all job in a law office the same, requiring the same degree?

Are all jobs in building the same, requiring the same skills and degrees?

No, same with CS. CS is not all about one job. Just as you have architects and engineers and also carpenters and plumbers in construction, you have architects and engineers in CS and technicians, etc. in CS. Huge variety.


And you essentially answer your own question in your post OP: "And I'm not talking about actual computer science where they invent quantum machines and stuff. I'm talking about "software engineering" or however else it is called." You ask about CS broadly in the title, and then narrow your question to a fragment.

It's like asking "Is finance basically a trade like HVAC?" And then going on to ask specifically about bank tellers and data entry operators and day traders. Because tons of people are day traders and you can learn it all from Motley Fool, right?


Good point.
Anonymous
Post 10/21/2023 11:36     Subject: Is CS a trade like plumbing, HVAC, etc?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Are all jobs on Wall Street the same, requiring the same degree?

Are all job in a law office the same, requiring the same degree?

Are all jobs in building the same, requiring the same skills and degrees?

No, same with CS. CS is not all about one job. Just as you have architects and engineers and also carpenters and plumbers in construction, you have architects and engineers in CS and technicians, etc. in CS. Huge variety.


And you essentially answer your own question in your post OP: "And I'm not talking about actual computer science where they invent quantum machines and stuff. I'm talking about "software engineering" or however else it is called." You ask about CS broadly in the title, and then narrow your question to a fragment.

It's like asking "Is finance basically a trade like HVAC?" And then going on to ask specifically about bank tellers and data entry operators and day traders. Because tons of people are day traders and you can learn it all from Motley Fool, right?


Of course, if you are not a top student you'll take bottom end positions just like any major and any field.




That was not the point at all.
Anonymous
Post 10/21/2023 11:19     Subject: Re:Is CS a trade like plumbing, HVAC, etc?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
CS degree requires high level of math.

I don't think plumbing and hvac require that.

good luck getting a job without a degree



Completely not accurate. Lots of IT and SWE government contractors do NOT college degree. I've seen it first hand at places such as NIH, NIST and NASA.


Many of the gov contractors have equivalent specialized military backgrounds.



No, they all have degrees.
Anonymous
Post 10/21/2023 11:18     Subject: Is CS a trade like plumbing, HVAC, etc?
Cs is a generic term for many jobs. Most people need degrees. Those are outliers.
Anonymous
Post 10/21/2023 11:18     Subject: Re:Is CS a trade like plumbing, HVAC, etc?

lol good luck
Anonymous
Post 10/21/2023 11:14     Subject: Is CS a trade like plumbing, HVAC, etc?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Are all jobs on Wall Street the same, requiring the same degree?

Are all job in a law office the same, requiring the same degree?

Are all jobs in building the same, requiring the same skills and degrees?

No, same with CS. CS is not all about one job. Just as you have architects and engineers and also carpenters and plumbers in construction, you have architects and engineers in CS and technicians, etc. in CS. Huge variety.


And you essentially answer your own question in your post OP: "And I'm not talking about actual computer science where they invent quantum machines and stuff. I'm talking about "software engineering" or however else it is called." You ask about CS broadly in the title, and then narrow your question to a fragment.

It's like asking "Is finance basically a trade like HVAC?" And then going on to ask specifically about bank tellers and data entry operators and day traders. Because tons of people are day traders and you can learn it all from Motley Fool, right?


Of course, if you are not a top student you'll take bottom end positions just like any major and any field.


Anonymous
Post 10/21/2023 11:05     Subject: Is CS a trade like plumbing, HVAC, etc?
Anonymous wrote:Are all jobs on Wall Street the same, requiring the same degree?

Are all job in a law office the same, requiring the same degree?

Are all jobs in building the same, requiring the same skills and degrees?

No, same with CS. CS is not all about one job. Just as you have architects and engineers and also carpenters and plumbers in construction, you have architects and engineers in CS and technicians, etc. in CS. Huge variety.


And you essentially answer your own question in your post OP: "And I'm not talking about actual computer science where they invent quantum machines and stuff. I'm talking about "software engineering" or however else it is called." You ask about CS broadly in the title, and then narrow your question to a fragment.

It's like asking "Is finance basically a trade like HVAC?" And then going on to ask specifically about bank tellers and data entry operators and day traders. Because tons of people are day traders and you can learn it all from Motley Fool, right?
Anonymous
Post 10/21/2023 11:00     Subject: Is CS a trade like plumbing, HVAC, etc?
Are all jobs on Wall Street the same, requiring the same degree?

Are all job in a law office the same, requiring the same degree?

Are all jobs in building the same, requiring the same skills and degrees?

No, same with CS. CS is not all about one job. Just as you have architects and engineers and also carpenters and plumbers in construction, you have architects and engineers in CS and technicians, etc. in CS. Huge variety.
Anonymous
Post 10/21/2023 10:52     Subject: Re:Is CS a trade like plumbing, HVAC, etc?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
CS degree requires high level of math.

I don't think plumbing and hvac require that.

good luck getting a job without a degree



Completely not accurate. Lots of IT and SWE government contractors do NOT college degree. I've seen it first hand at places such as NIH, NIST and NASA.


Many of the gov contractors have equivalent specialized military backgrounds.

Anonymous
Post 10/21/2023 10:51     Subject: Re:Is CS a trade like plumbing, HVAC, etc?
Anonymous wrote:My husband was an Econ major who became an expert in computer software development at his first job. He went independent after a few years and was making $400k by his early 30s. Never took a CS course.


Yes, ton of opportunities in CS field for various of smart people in different way.

That's the beauty of it.
Anonymous
Post 10/21/2023 10:51     Subject: Re:Is CS a trade like plumbing, HVAC, etc?
Anonymous wrote:
CS degree requires high level of math.

I don't think plumbing and hvac require that.

good luck getting a job without a degree



Completely not accurate. Lots of IT and SWE government contractors do NOT college degree. I've seen it first hand at places such as NIH, NIST and NASA.