Anonymous
Post 10/10/2023 17:05     Subject: Why do people live so close to volatile borders?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Upfront I deplore what Hamas is doing and the horrific violence.

My question is why people choose to live so close to a border with a hostile “nation”. Is there something about that area that is compelling, or some industry that is located there? Not just here but a village along the DMZ in South Korea, or really any other place so close to an enemy.

I think I would feel very unsettled and unsafe all the time but maybe I am just very risk averse. Does anyone have friends or family who have made that choice?


Because in a war over territorial dispute, leaving the disputed territory unoccupied is a gift to your enemy because they can claim that it is a free territory for them to take, they can claim you abandoned it. The one who occupies it and lives there for generations can claim it's theirs.
This is why the Israeli government has encouraged and incentivized the occupation by its population of every single piece land in that region. Once they have settled there and lived for generations, it will be harder to ask them to leave.




Exactly! And my understanding is (I am neither Jewish nor in any way middle eastern) that this tactic was used even since before 1947.
Come over, settle in, de facto be the local.
Anonymous
Post 10/10/2023 16:57     Subject: Why do people live so close to volatile borders?
I frankly thought the same thing when i read that the kibbuts were 2-3 miles from Gaza. even the rave was 2 miles from the border!! while it may be true that people immigrate from poor areas, especially from Eastern Europe and they may not have a lot of choices, it does not seem the case for several people in these kibbuts. on the Guardian there were interviews of people who survived and they were from London (entire family), another who dies was from Glasgow, often moved to Israel as adults. whatever their economic situation, I doubt they could not find a decent place anywhere in the UK and they were forced to move 2 miles from Gaza with Hamas and 2.5 million of desperate people. as OP said, this is just a side consideraton, no meaning to diminish the horror of what happened by the hands of Islamic brainwashed killers
Anonymous
Post 10/10/2023 16:01     Subject: Why do people live so close to volatile borders?
I know that if I lived that close to a boarder like that, I would have 10 AR 15’s. Families slaughtered, babies heads cut off. Crazy.
Anonymous
Post 10/10/2023 15:41     Subject: Why do people live so close to volatile borders?
For the same reason people still live in hurricane areas.
Anonymous
Post 10/10/2023 15:25     Subject: Why do people live so close to volatile borders?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:My understanding is they are there largely because the Israeli government has encouraged and incentivized it.


Bingo!

np, I had the same question as OP. IMO, even if the govt provided monetary incentives, I would not want to live in a neighborhood that borders an area where people hate me, and actively have had in the past committed violent acts against people like me.

It's like a POC or a Jew choosing to live in a neighborhood that borders a town that is known to have a lot of white supremacists. That seems like not a good idea.

I'm a POC myself.


Your assumption is that they live there because it's their number one choice. Most of the times you live in some places because that's the best you can afford.


PP here.. I actually grew up poor, child of uneducated immigrant parents. I could tell you horror stories of how we lived when we first moved to the US. However, my parents would not have moved us into an area that was close to a warzone, especially given how my parents lived through a warzone themselves when they were younger. They would've rather we lived in a refugee camp outdoors, which is what they did, than live next to a warzone.

I am not so sure that every person who chose to live in that area did so due to not having any other choices.
Anonymous
Post 10/10/2023 15:12     Subject: Why do people live so close to volatile borders?
Anonymous wrote:Living in Tel Aviv or Jerusalem is very expensive. TLV is one of the most expensive cities in the world. Israelis who have long standing ties to the country (eg, their family has been there for 50+ years) tend to own a lot of real estate. My friends in TLV all live in inherited housing or had significant family help in buying their home.

If you want to have a couple of kids and you are newer arrival to the country, you are truly priced out of the nicer areas. So then you start looking at home out in the countryside settlements not far from the borders of the West Bank or Gaza. New housing, affordable, tight knit communities, pastoral setting to raise kids - it's sort of ideal. Particularly during COVID when people were trying to get out of the city. The settlements near Gaza tend to be a bit more moderate in their politics.

In contrast, the hardcore orthodox are moving into "illegal" settlements in the West Bank. Essentially, they are walled-off pockets of settlements surrounded by Palestinians. They are purposely moving to these places for political reasons, plus cheap housing.

It was widely considered to be much more dangerous to live in the West Bank settlements than those that were attacked in the Hamas raid this past weekend. That's why they were so lightly defended. Further, all these settlements come with secured safe rooms, but reports state that Hamas set the houses on fire and these safe rooms became literal ovens.


Thank you
Anonymous
Post 10/10/2023 15:02     Subject: Why do people live so close to volatile borders?
Anonymous wrote:Upfront I deplore what Hamas is doing and the horrific violence.

My question is why people choose to live so close to a border with a hostile “nation”. Is there something about that area that is compelling, or some industry that is located there? Not just here but a village along the DMZ in South Korea, or really any other place so close to an enemy.

I think I would feel very unsettled and unsafe all the time but maybe I am just very risk averse. Does anyone have friends or family who have made that choice?


Why do people live close to industrial waste zones or strip mines?

you live where you can live; not everyone can bein potomac MD away from the riff raff
Anonymous
Post 10/10/2023 14:51     Subject: Why do people live so close to volatile borders?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Upfront I deplore what Hamas is doing and the horrific violence.

My question is why people choose to live so close to a border with a hostile “nation”. Is there something about that area that is compelling, or some industry that is located there? Not just here but a village along the DMZ in South Korea, or really any other place so close to an enemy.

I think I would feel very unsettled and unsafe all the time but maybe I am just very risk averse. Does anyone have friends or family who have made that choice?


Because in a war over territorial dispute, leaving the disputed territory unoccupied is a gift to your enemy because they can claim that it is a free territory for them to take, they can claim you abandoned it. The one who occupies it and lives there for generations can claim it's theirs.
This is why the Israeli government has encouraged and incentivized the occupation by its population of every single piece land in that region. Once they have settled there and lived for generations, it will be harder to ask them to leave.




This. It also explains all the calls for the Palestinian refugees to rush to Egypt. Sayonara and thanks for your land!
Anonymous
Post 10/10/2023 14:50     Subject: Why do people live so close to volatile borders?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:My understanding is they are there largely because the Israeli government has encouraged and incentivized it.


Bingo!

np, I had the same question as OP. IMO, even if the govt provided monetary incentives, I would not want to live in a neighborhood that borders an area where people hate me, and actively have had in the past committed violent acts against people like me.

It's like a POC or a Jew choosing to live in a neighborhood that borders a town that is known to have a lot of white supremacists. That seems like not a good idea.

I'm a POC myself.


Your assumption is that they live there because it's their number one choice. Most of the times you live in some places because that's the best you can afford.

Anonymous
Post 10/10/2023 14:47     Subject: Why do people live so close to volatile borders?
Anonymous wrote:Upfront I deplore what Hamas is doing and the horrific violence.

My question is why people choose to live so close to a border with a hostile “nation”. Is there something about that area that is compelling, or some industry that is located there? Not just here but a village along the DMZ in South Korea, or really any other place so close to an enemy.

I think I would feel very unsettled and unsafe all the time but maybe I am just very risk averse. Does anyone have friends or family who have made that choice?


Because in a war over territorial dispute, leaving the disputed territory unoccupied is a gift to your enemy because they can claim that it is a free territory for them to take, they can claim you abandoned it. The one who occupies it and lives there for generations can claim it's theirs.
This is why the Israeli government has encouraged and incentivized the occupation by its population of every single piece land in that region. Once they have settled there and lived for generations, it will be harder to ask them to leave.


Anonymous
Post 10/10/2023 13:40     Subject: Why do people live so close to volatile borders?
I should add that the communities attacked this weekend are kibbutz that have been part of modern Israel for many many decades. My spouse spent a summer in one of the kibbutz in southern Israel; lots of American Jewish kids might spend a few weeks or a whole summer in a kibbutz in high school or college.

These are not the controversial "settlements" that were evacuated from Gaza in 2005 or those built in the last 10-15 years in the West Bank.
Anonymous
Post 10/10/2023 13:35     Subject: Why do people live so close to volatile borders?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Living in Tel Aviv or Jerusalem is very expensive. TLV is one of the most expensive cities in the world. Israelis who have long standing ties to the country (eg, their family has been there for 50+ years) tend to own a lot of real estate. My friends in TLV all live in inherited housing or had significant family help in buying their home.

If you want to have a couple of kids and you are newer arrival to the country, you are truly priced out of the nicer areas. So then you start looking at home out in the countryside settlements not far from the borders of the West Bank or Gaza. New housing, affordable, tight knit communities, pastoral setting to raise kids - it's sort of ideal. Particularly during COVID when people were trying to get out of the city. The settlements near Gaza tend to be a bit more moderate in their politics.

In contrast, the hardcore orthodox are moving into "illegal" settlements in the West Bank. Essentially, they are walled-off pockets of settlements surrounded by Palestinians. They are purposely moving to these places for political reasons, plus cheap housing.

It was widely considered to be much more dangerous to live in the West Bank settlements than those that were attacked in the Hamas raid this past weekend. That's why they were so lightly defended. Further, all these settlements come with secured safe rooms, but reports state that Hamas set the houses on fire and these safe rooms became literal ovens.


I mean...


There's pretty big social and economic class gaps between Jewish families who were there prior to 1975 and then those who arrived after the fall of Communism. It plays out in things like asset accumulation, political preferences, education attainment, religiosity, etc.
Anonymous
Post 10/10/2023 13:32     Subject: Why do people live so close to volatile borders?
The UN made Israel. They chose the borders.
Anonymous
Post 10/10/2023 13:30     Subject: Re:Why do people live so close to volatile borders?
It’s a tiny country and they’re not all going to live in the even tinier part that is relatively safe.
Anonymous
Post 10/10/2023 13:23     Subject: Why do people live so close to volatile borders?
Anonymous wrote:Living in Tel Aviv or Jerusalem is very expensive. TLV is one of the most expensive cities in the world. Israelis who have long standing ties to the country (eg, their family has been there for 50+ years) tend to own a lot of real estate. My friends in TLV all live in inherited housing or had significant family help in buying their home.

If you want to have a couple of kids and you are newer arrival to the country, you are truly priced out of the nicer areas. So then you start looking at home out in the countryside settlements not far from the borders of the West Bank or Gaza. New housing, affordable, tight knit communities, pastoral setting to raise kids - it's sort of ideal. Particularly during COVID when people were trying to get out of the city. The settlements near Gaza tend to be a bit more moderate in their politics.

In contrast, the hardcore orthodox are moving into "illegal" settlements in the West Bank. Essentially, they are walled-off pockets of settlements surrounded by Palestinians. They are purposely moving to these places for political reasons, plus cheap housing.

It was widely considered to be much more dangerous to live in the West Bank settlements than those that were attacked in the Hamas raid this past weekend. That's why they were so lightly defended. Further, all these settlements come with secured safe rooms, but reports state that Hamas set the houses on fire and these safe rooms became literal ovens.



I mean...