Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Could also be TO and weaker admissions standards for “prestige” universities. It’s not just the pandemic.

TO has nothing to do with weather a student is prepared for college.

I would say I have not seen a major change. If anything, students seem better prepared overall. There are still a few that I was would have been required to talk a basic writing class. The one area I do see a difference is the extent to which students want to turn in work late. There doesn't seem to be the same priority for deadlines.

OMG, you are SOOOOO not a professor! Such a troll! Maybe if you could learn how to spell and use grammar properly, we'd believe you.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Could also be TO and weaker admissions standards for “prestige” universities. It’s not just the pandemic.

TO has nothing to do with weather a student is prepared for college.

I would say I have not seen a major change. If anything, students seem better prepared overall. There are still a few that I was would have been required to talk a basic writing class. The one area I do see a difference is the extent to which students want to turn in work late. There doesn't seem to be the same priority for deadlines.

“Nothing to do with weather (sic) a student is prepared…” I started to question whether or not a college professor wrote this, but then I realized that only an academic would write something this stupid. Based upon this and the grammatical errors in your post, it is clear that we should not place any weight upon your judgment regarding the preparedness of students for college (fake academic or not).

DP: what's your point? The OP asked what professors are witnessing on campus. You seem to look down on academics. Who should give their informed opinion on student preparedness for college?

Because the statement regarding test scores was a blanket statement that reflects what the poster *wants* to be true, with zero substantive evidence. It would be one thing to argue that a university can select a qualified group of students without reference to test scores, but the statement that test scores have no relevance at all to student preparedness is false. Studies indicate that test scores are the single best predictor of academic success in college.

Further, it is unlikely that this person has access to the test scores of their students, so I would consider their opinion on this topic to be of limited value.

OP - I have read studies that HS GPA is the single best predictor for college success as it indicates consistent work ethic and subject mastery. However, I can see how grade inflation may render that an unhelpful gauge for future college success.

OP - I just double checked that there is not new data showing that test scores trumo GPAs but I can’t find such research. Quite the opposite, as I had also read years ago. I suspect that it is related to high GPAs demonstrating consistent hard work and self discipline.

It’s GPAs Not Standardized Tests That Predict College Success

Grade point averages are a much better predictor of success at college than standardized tests, according to new research. High school GPAs were found to be five times stronger than ACT scores at predicting graduation rates, and that the effect of GPAs was consistent across schools, unlike ACT scores.Jan

https://www.forbes.com/sites/nickmorrison/2020/01/29/its-gpas-not-standardized-tests-that-predict-college-success/?sh=7e52b56132bd



Test scores don’t stack up to GPAs in predicting college success

UChicago Consortium study finds high-school GPAs outweigh ACTs for college readiness

Students’ high-school grade point averages are five times stronger than their ACT scores at predicting college graduation, according to a new study from the University of Chicago Consortium on School Research.

UChicago Consortium researchers found that the predictive power of GPAs is consistent across high schools—something that did not hold true for test scores. At many high schools, they discovered no connection between students’ ACT scores and eventual college graduation. The authors were also surprised to find that, at some high schools, students with the highest ACT scores were less likely to succeed in college.

https://news.uchicago.edu/story/test-scores-dont-stack-gpas-predicting-college-success

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Could also be TO and weaker admissions standards for “prestige” universities. It’s not just the pandemic.

TO has nothing to do with weather a student is prepared for college.

I would say I have not seen a major change. If anything, students seem better prepared overall. There are still a few that I was would have been required to talk a basic writing class. The one area I do see a difference is the extent to which students want to turn in work late. There doesn't seem to be the same priority for deadlines.

“Nothing to do with weather (sic) a student is prepared…” I started to question whether or not a college professor wrote this, but then I realized that only an academic would write something this stupid. Based upon this and the grammatical errors in your post, it is clear that we should not place any weight upon your judgment regarding the preparedness of students for college (fake academic or not).

DP: what's your point? The OP asked what professors are witnessing on campus. You seem to look down on academics. Who should give their informed opinion on student preparedness for college?

Because the statement regarding test scores was a blanket statement that reflects what the poster *wants* to be true, with zero substantive evidence. It would be one thing to argue that a university can select a qualified group of students without reference to test scores, but the statement that test scores have no relevance at all to student preparedness is false. Studies indicate that test scores are the single best predictor of academic success in college.

Further, it is unlikely that this person has access to the test scores of their students, so I would consider their opinion on this topic to be of limited value.

OP - I have read studies that HS GPA is the single best predictor for college success as it indicates consistent work ethic and subject mastery. However, I can see how grade inflation may render that an unhelpful gauge for future college success.

Anonymous wrote:College is the new high school. Kids coming in are like middle school students from a decade or two ago. Poor reading and writing skills. Want to do corrections and have trouble with deadlines. Sure COVID made it worse but was getting progressively worse before COVID. I chalk it up to the advent of everyone getting a participation trophy.

OP - I am not a professor but suspect that widespread social media and smart phone use that accelerated during the pandemic may be contributing to reduced reading. I know our younger DC who went through MS during the pandemic reads less than I or their older sibling did at their age.

However, they have many strengths and often listen to material on audio rather than read so they are still getting content.

I do worry about the reduced reading though and am encouraged that several professors are seeing no major changes in how prepared students are for college.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Could also be TO and weaker admissions standards for “prestige” universities. It’s not just the pandemic.

TO has nothing to do with weather a student is prepared for college.

I would say I have not seen a major change. If anything, students seem better prepared overall. There are still a few that I was would have been required to talk a basic writing class. The one area I do see a difference is the extent to which students want to turn in work late. There doesn't seem to be the same priority for deadlines.

+1 My colleagues at T20 schools, SLACS, and public R1 universities report the same behavior I have observed since the pandemic. The majority of students are academically prepared; however, there has been an increase in the number of students who can't meet deadlines, ask to redo assignments, struggle with mental health, and chronically skip class.

I'm at a public R1, and our DRW rates have slightly increased since the pandemic; there is some evidence that some TO students are struggling in gateway math courses and had to repeat a course or switch majors. However, this is not a significant number of students compared to pre-TO data. Retention rates amongst TO students haven't decreased, and they are on track to graduate and not negatively impact our 4- or 6-year graduate rates.

How do you know this? My husband and I both faculty at universities and neither of us are privy to any of this.

Chair of the department and serve on the faculty senate executive committee.

Are you supposed to be sharing this info?
My spouse is also similarly involved and has been told explicitly not to share info based on limited data or speculate about it.

The information is not public but wasn't told explicitly to not share the info. However, I didn't name the school, and this is an anonymous forum. I'll take my chances!

OP - sorry I had no idea this could place anyone at any professional risk. I am just a mom of a HS student whom we hope to launch into college life successfully in a few years.

Thank you very much for replying.

It is actually encouraging that students seems to be relatively well prepared overall.

We do plan to encourage DC to work on writing skills, being on time and handing in assignments on time, per suggestions.

However, it is great that college graduation rates have not changed much since TO.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Could also be TO and weaker admissions standards for “prestige” universities. It’s not just the pandemic.

TO has nothing to do with weather a student is prepared for college.

I would say I have not seen a major change. If anything, students seem better prepared overall. There are still a few that I was would have been required to talk a basic writing class. The one area I do see a difference is the extent to which students want to turn in work late. There doesn't seem to be the same priority for deadlines.

+1 My colleagues at T20 schools, SLACS, and public R1 universities report the same behavior I have observed since the pandemic. The majority of students are academically prepared; however, there has been an increase in the number of students who can't meet deadlines, ask to redo assignments, struggle with mental health, and chronically skip class.

I'm at a public R1, and our DRW rates have slightly increased since the pandemic; there is some evidence that some TO students are struggling in gateway math courses and had to repeat a course or switch majors. However, this is not a significant number of students compared to pre-TO data. Retention rates amongst TO students haven't decreased, and they are on track to graduate and not negatively impact our 4- or 6-year graduate rates.

OP - that is encouraging thank you .

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Could also be TO and weaker admissions standards for “prestige” universities. It’s not just the pandemic.

TO has nothing to do with weather a student is prepared for college.

I would say I have not seen a major change. If anything, students seem better prepared overall. There are still a few that I was would have been required to talk a basic writing class. The one area I do see a difference is the extent to which students want to turn in work late. There doesn't seem to be the same priority for deadlines.

“Nothing to do with weather (sic) a student is prepared…” I started to question whether or not a college professor wrote this, but then I realized that only an academic would write something this stupid. Based upon this and the grammatical errors in your post, it is clear that we should not place any weight upon your judgment regarding the preparedness of students for college (fake academic or not).

NP. You've never made a typo in an anonymous internet forum? This isn't exactly formal writing and there's no edit function.

OP - agree and not looking for perfectly crafted and grammatically correct responses on an internet chat forum for moms and dads.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Could also be TO and weaker admissions standards for “prestige” universities. It’s not just the pandemic.

TO has nothing to do with weather a student is prepared for college.

I would say I have not seen a major change. If anything, students seem better prepared overall. There are still a few that I was would have been required to talk a basic writing class. The one area I do see a difference is the extent to which students want to turn in work late. There doesn't seem to be the same priority for deadlines.

“Nothing to do with weather (sic) a student is prepared…” I started to question whether or not a college professor wrote this, but then I realized that only an academic would write something this stupid. Based upon this and the grammatical errors in your post, it is clear that we should not place any weight upon your judgment regarding the preparedness of students for college (fake academic or not).

DP: what's your point? The OP asked what professors are witnessing on campus. You seem to look down on academics. Who should give their informed opinion on student preparedness for college?

Because the statement regarding test scores was a blanket statement that reflects what the poster *wants* to be true, with zero substantive evidence. It would be one thing to argue that a university can select a qualified group of students without reference to test scores, but the statement that test scores have no relevance at all to student preparedness is false. Studies indicate that test scores are the single best predictor of academic success in college.

Further, it is unlikely that this person has access to the test scores of their students, so I would consider their opinion on this topic to be of limited value.

We live next door to a semi-famous Ivy League professor. He’s been complaining about the decline in student preparedness for 30 years. At this point I can’t tell if the students are declining or if he is

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Could also be TO and weaker admissions standards for “prestige” universities. It’s not just the pandemic.

TO has nothing to do with weather a student is prepared for college.

I would say I have not seen a major change. If anything, students seem better prepared overall. There are still a few that I was would have been required to talk a basic writing class. The one area I do see a difference is the extent to which students want to turn in work late. There doesn't seem to be the same priority for deadlines.

+1 My colleagues at T20 schools, SLACS, and public R1 universities report the same behavior I have observed since the pandemic. The majority of students are academically prepared; however, there has been an increase in the number of students who can't meet deadlines, ask to redo assignments, struggle with mental health, and chronically skip class.

I'm at a public R1, and our DRW rates have slightly increased since the pandemic; there is some evidence that some TO students are struggling in gateway math courses and had to repeat a course or switch majors. However, this is not a significant number of students compared to pre-TO data. Retention rates amongst TO students haven't decreased, and they are on track to graduate and not negatively impact our 4- or 6-year graduate rates.

How do you know this? My husband and I both faculty at universities and neither of us are privy to any of this.

Chair of the department and serve on the faculty senate executive committee.

This is reassuring. As anyone who’s been in academics knows, those with lots and lots of administrative titles are the best. They are also the only ones wearing suits.

College is the new high school. Kids coming in are like middle school students from a decade or two ago. Poor reading and writing skills. Want to do corrections and have trouble with deadlines. Sure COVID made it worse but was getting progressively worse before COVID. I chalk it up to the advent of everyone getting a participation trophy.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Could also be TO and weaker admissions standards for “prestige” universities. It’s not just the pandemic.

TO has nothing to do with weather a student is prepared for college.

I would say I have not seen a major change. If anything, students seem better prepared overall. There are still a few that I was would have been required to talk a basic writing class. The one area I do see a difference is the extent to which students want to turn in work late. There doesn't seem to be the same priority for deadlines.

+1 My colleagues at T20 schools, SLACS, and public R1 universities report the same behavior I have observed since the pandemic. The majority of students are academically prepared; however, there has been an increase in the number of students who can't meet deadlines, ask to redo assignments, struggle with mental health, and chronically skip class.

I'm at a public R1, and our DRW rates have slightly increased since the pandemic; there is some evidence that some TO students are struggling in gateway math courses and had to repeat a course or switch majors. However, this is not a significant number of students compared to pre-TO data. Retention rates amongst TO students haven't decreased, and they are on track to graduate and not negatively impact our 4- or 6-year graduate rates.

How do you know this? My husband and I both faculty at universities and neither of us are privy to any of this.

Chair of the department and serve on the faculty senate executive committee.

Are you supposed to be sharing this info?
My spouse is also similarly involved and has been told explicitly not to share info based on limited data or speculate about it.

The information is not public but wasn't told explicitly to not share the info. However, I didn't name the school, and this is an anonymous forum. I'll take my chances!

Weather/whether pp here. Thanks, PPs, for noting my attempt to fix my typo w/o edit function. It's been a long day, and it is always nice to see a little human kindness on this board.

Anonymous wrote:Whether, not weather!

This!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Could also be TO and weaker admissions standards for “prestige” universities. It’s not just the pandemic.

TO has nothing to do with weather a student is prepared for college.

I would say I have not seen a major change. If anything, students seem better prepared overall. There are still a few that I was would have been required to talk a basic writing class. The one area I do see a difference is the extent to which students want to turn in work late. There doesn't seem to be the same priority for deadlines.

+1 My colleagues at T20 schools, SLACS, and public R1 universities report the same behavior I have observed since the pandemic. The majority of students are academically prepared; however, there has been an increase in the number of students who can't meet deadlines, ask to redo assignments, struggle with mental health, and chronically skip class.

I'm at a public R1, and our DRW rates have slightly increased since the pandemic; there is some evidence that some TO students are struggling in gateway math courses and had to repeat a course or switch majors. However, this is not a significant number of students compared to pre-TO data. Retention rates amongst TO students haven't decreased, and they are on track to graduate and not negatively impact our 4- or 6-year graduate rates.

How do you know this? My husband and I both faculty at universities and neither of us are privy to any of this.

Chair of the department and serve on the faculty senate executive committee.

Are you supposed to be sharing this info?
My spouse is also similarly involved and has been told explicitly not to share info based on limited data or speculate about it.