Anonymous
10/05/2023 09:58
Subject: DC Council & Traffic Enforcement
And if they don't want to chase cars then the alternative should NEVER be "just let them go." That is completely irresponsible and unacceptable. Instead MPD should invest in alternatives like GPS darts. Let them go but then safely follow them right to their house.
https://pappalardolaw.com/2023/04/gps-darts-police-use-vehicle-pursuits/
https://pappalardolaw.com/2023/04/gps-darts-police-use-vehicle-pursuits/
Anonymous
10/05/2023 09:56
Subject: DC Council & Traffic Enforcement
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:MPD needs to do more traffic stops, not fewer. Traffic stops have multiple benefits: addressing dangerous driving, serving as a very visible deterrent to others, and an important tool for detaining people with outstanding warrants (and sometimes illegal weapons in the vehicle).
+1000
Pull over every vehicle with fake paper tags. You are likely to find guns and criminals.
And they need to immediately impound every parked car that has fake tags. With a fake tag, there isn't even a legitimate address to mail a citation to, so it needs to be dealt with on the spot.
Anonymous
10/05/2023 09:55
Subject: Re:DC Council & Traffic Enforcement
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I agree with the OP that nothing will change without enforcement. But things are changing/moving, albeit very slowly. There's little way to have MPD do more traffic stops without hiring more MPD, which both the council and mayor haven't allocated money for. The budget adds a whole bunch of cameras to the city, and the new bills will allow the city to go after tickets. Whether they will.... I kinda doubt, but it's moving!
Maybe if MPD officers looked up from their phones while parked in front of 7-11 they could do it within existing staffing levels. But then they'd have to give a crap first.
If they pursue and someone dies they will be charged with murder. If someone doesn't feel like pulling over, they do not have to.
That's such a bullshit take.
When someone chooses to flee and illegally drive recklessly and either they get killed or kill some bystander as a result that is purely the fault of the fleeing driver. They should have pulled over, end of story.
Anonymous
10/05/2023 09:08
Subject: DC Council & Traffic Enforcement
Anonymous wrote:MPD needs to do more traffic stops, not fewer. Traffic stops have multiple benefits: addressing dangerous driving, serving as a very visible deterrent to others, and an important tool for detaining people with outstanding warrants (and sometimes illegal weapons in the vehicle).
+1000
Pull over every vehicle with fake paper tags. You are likely to find guns and criminals.
Anonymous
10/05/2023 08:28
Subject: Re:DC Council & Traffic Enforcement
Apparently some of you are new to DC. Here’s how the city works: the government comes up with lots of elaborate rules about every topic under the sun and then no one enforces them, ever.
Anonymous
10/05/2023 08:23
Subject: DC Council & Traffic Enforcement
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:The DC Council's Transportation and Environment committee (Allen, Nadeau, Frumin, Parker & Henderson) had a very interesting public hearing today on four bills that would overhaul local traffic enforcement. Among other things, the bills would impose points for speeding violations, strip licenses from repeat offenders, respond to the proliferation of fake and temp tags and so on. On the face of it, the bills are good. However, I didn't leave the hearing with positive vibes at all.
Despite commenter after commenter pleading for it, the council doesn't seem inclined to ask MPD to start doing traffic stops again. I get the sense that the likes of Allen and Nadeau would like to create some kind of alternative traffic enforcement agency (although I don't think anyone has thought that through), but it's more or less impossible to see how that would happen in the next 5-10 years and so is a pipe dream. Allen said more or less explicitly that he's not into "citizen enforcement" (a la NYC) either because he wants the "government to do its job" (ha!). So the only tools for enforcement are the status quo triumvirate of traffic cameras (which are few and far between), boots (which are trivial for the driver to remove), and towing (which the mayor refuses to resource), which is almost as bad as nothing at all.
So, while the proposed changes in penalties are good, there is no real plan at all for enforcing those penalties. So the Mad Max craziness on DC streets will continue . . .
So basically law-abiding families like the soccer mom who went 5 over will end up paying ever more draconian traffic fines. Meanwhile the truly crazy and dangerous drivers will have nothing to worry about.
That “law-abiding” (not actually, it seems since speed limits are laws after all) soccer mom would need to work really hard to rack up those fines. As of now, tickets only begin at 10 mph over and are almost only ever issued by a handful of cameras in very well-known locations (and even if you don’t know where they are, Waze et al. will be sure to warn you). The bill proposes adjusting that so that those who work hard enough to somehow be ticketed eight times in a six month get some points as a reward for their efforts. I mean, if you’re trying that hard as to be caught by cameras speeding that many times in a short period, there really should be some kind of recognition for your work.
Anonymous
10/05/2023 08:22
Subject: Re:DC Council & Traffic Enforcement
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I agree with the OP that nothing will change without enforcement. But things are changing/moving, albeit very slowly. There's little way to have MPD do more traffic stops without hiring more MPD, which both the council and mayor haven't allocated money for. The budget adds a whole bunch of cameras to the city, and the new bills will allow the city to go after tickets. Whether they will.... I kinda doubt, but it's moving!
Maybe if MPD officers looked up from their phones while parked in front of 7-11 they could do it within existing staffing levels. But then they'd have to give a crap first.
If they pursue and someone dies they will be charged with murder. If someone doesn't feel like pulling over, they do not have to.
This!
I’m a MoCo resident. Our council has passed over 20 different bills restricting what police can do, just in the last 3 years alone.
When police aren’t working the way you would like them to be, I suspect turning to the DC council will give you all the answers you need. Are the police even allowed to enforce laws? In MoCo, that’s being taken a way little by little.
Don’t blame the cops if the politicians are the problem.
Anonymous
10/05/2023 08:15
Subject: DC Council & Traffic Enforcement
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:There's already points for speeding and everything else.
In DC? No not really - MPD has averaged a few thousand traffic citations a year over the last 10 years and a lot of those are actually attached to accidents where MPD is supposed to investigate and issue a citation.
There are no points attached to camera citations which are about 99% of the citations now issued in DC.
And everyone knew from the very beginning that camera citations cannot be attached to points because cameras can only cite vehicles not people. Adding points to camera citations would be blatantly unconstitutional.
"it's a car, not a driver" sounds like bullshit to me.
The vehicle has an owner, and the owner has responsibility for whoever is behind the wheel. So unless the owner can provide some documentation of circumstance (for example the car was leased out to someone else or the car was reported as stolen) or who it was behind the wheel at the time of the citation (such as a commercial vehicle with assigned drivers), the owner should be the one taking the citation and any penalties associated with it.
Neither the constitution nor the concept of innocent until proven guilty is bullshit. Citations can attach to a vehicle but points can only attach to individuals. This was known by everyone before the very first traffic camera went up.
Plenty of jurisdictions apply points to camera tickets (Phoenix, AZ is one). As long as there is a process by which such tickets can be challenged, there is no constitutional concern. This has been well adjudicated.
Anonymous
10/05/2023 07:52
Subject: DC Council & Traffic Enforcement
MPD needs to do more traffic stops, not fewer. Traffic stops have multiple benefits: addressing dangerous driving, serving as a very visible deterrent to others, and an important tool for detaining people with outstanding warrants (and sometimes illegal weapons in the vehicle).
Anonymous
10/05/2023 07:33
Subject: DC Council & Traffic Enforcement
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:There's already points for speeding and everything else.
In DC? No not really - MPD has averaged a few thousand traffic citations a year over the last 10 years and a lot of those are actually attached to accidents where MPD is supposed to investigate and issue a citation.
There are no points attached to camera citations which are about 99% of the citations now issued in DC.
And everyone knew from the very beginning that camera citations cannot be attached to points because cameras can only cite vehicles not people. Adding points to camera citations would be blatantly unconstitutional.
"it's a car, not a driver" sounds like bullshit to me.
The vehicle has an owner, and the owner has responsibility for whoever is behind the wheel. So unless the owner can provide some documentation of circumstance (for example the car was leased out to someone else or the car was reported as stolen) or who it was behind the wheel at the time of the citation (such as a commercial vehicle with assigned drivers), the owner should be the one taking the citation and any penalties associated with it.
Neither the constitution nor the concept of innocent until proven guilty is bullshit. Citations can attach to a vehicle but points can only attach to individuals. This was known by everyone before the very first traffic camera went up.
Anonymous
10/05/2023 06:50
Subject: Re:DC Council & Traffic Enforcement
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I agree with the OP that nothing will change without enforcement. But things are changing/moving, albeit very slowly. There's little way to have MPD do more traffic stops without hiring more MPD, which both the council and mayor haven't allocated money for. The budget adds a whole bunch of cameras to the city, and the new bills will allow the city to go after tickets. Whether they will.... I kinda doubt, but it's moving!
Maybe if MPD officers looked up from their phones while parked in front of 7-11 they could do it within existing staffing levels. But then they'd have to give a crap first.
If they pursue and someone dies they will be charged with murder. If someone doesn't feel like pulling over, they do not have to.
Anonymous
10/05/2023 06:37
Subject: Re:DC Council & Traffic Enforcement
Anonymous wrote:I agree with the OP that nothing will change without enforcement. But things are changing/moving, albeit very slowly. There's little way to have MPD do more traffic stops without hiring more MPD, which both the council and mayor haven't allocated money for. The budget adds a whole bunch of cameras to the city, and the new bills will allow the city to go after tickets. Whether they will.... I kinda doubt, but it's moving!
Maybe if MPD officers looked up from their phones while parked in front of 7-11 they could do it within existing staffing levels. But then they'd have to give a crap first.
Anonymous
10/05/2023 06:34
Subject: DC Council & Traffic Enforcement
With a no chase policy, why would anyone pull over for a traffic stop?
Just drive into Maryland. If you get in an accident along the way, the cops will be prosecuted for murder.
Just drive into Maryland. If you get in an accident along the way, the cops will be prosecuted for murder.
Anonymous
10/05/2023 06:18
Subject: Re:DC Council & Traffic Enforcement
The fact is that when a car is abandoned in front of your house the city response is to ticket, but not impound or tow. The windshield can literally be wallpapered with tickets, and still, there it shall sit.
The fact is that we do not have an agreement with MD or VA to collect on unpaid tickets when their drivers head to their DMVs. This would be fairly simple. We saw the result of this in our neighborhood, with construction managers telling their non resident workers to park in the streets and not worry about it, rather than providing them with legitimate parking options as the construction proposals promised to do to mitigate neighborhood impact.
Traffic enforcement in DC is nonsensical swiss cheese. It absolutely needs to be reformed. It's only function should not be to make money from law abiding residents via cameras.
The fact is that we do not have an agreement with MD or VA to collect on unpaid tickets when their drivers head to their DMVs. This would be fairly simple. We saw the result of this in our neighborhood, with construction managers telling their non resident workers to park in the streets and not worry about it, rather than providing them with legitimate parking options as the construction proposals promised to do to mitigate neighborhood impact.
Traffic enforcement in DC is nonsensical swiss cheese. It absolutely needs to be reformed. It's only function should not be to make money from law abiding residents via cameras.
Anonymous
10/05/2023 04:54
Subject: Re:DC Council & Traffic Enforcement
I agree with the OP that nothing will change without enforcement. But things are changing/moving, albeit very slowly. There's little way to have MPD do more traffic stops without hiring more MPD, which both the council and mayor haven't allocated money for. The budget adds a whole bunch of cameras to the city, and the new bills will allow the city to go after tickets. Whether they will.... I kinda doubt, but it's moving!