Anonymous wrote:I’m not looking at my rule book but I’m pretty sure to use a split time the coach has to go to the table before the race is swum and ask for an official split. (Sometimes from a relay and sometimes from like a 200). Assuming the split is valid then it is entered as an official split that gets recorded in swims. You can’t just point at a record of a relay split and say ‘see I have a cut’. (Well I mean you can tell whoever you like but it won’t get you in a meet ).

You are probably thinking of splits within an individual race. You can ask for a 1000 split within a 1650 or a 400 split within a 1500 if a coach asks for it ahead of time. Some meets will state that they will record 1000 splits within a 1650. You can’t do that with relays.

Anonymous wrote:If touchpads are working correctly, weird split times could be due to soft (pad) touches

There can be weird split times due to soft touches, but more often they are wonky because someone stepped on the top of the pad and triggered it. Relays are chaotic behind the block, and as an AO, we are constantly trying to remove extraneous touches from the pads from excited swimmers cheering on their teammates. But we always miss some, especially when the races are tight. Ask your coaches for the splits, they might have hand timed them.

You can always find this in the meet info (once it is posted on the PVS website).

https://www.pvswim.org/schedule.html

In the meet announcement there will be specif language about qualifying times and eligibility. For example, this is from the Snow Globe Champs and is pretty typical:

• Swimmers shall compete at the age attained on the first day of the meet.
• Provable seed times are required for entry in an event. For 13 & Over 50 yd events, ONLY
provable 100 yd times for the applicable stroke will be used for seeding purposes, i.e., to enter
the 50 yd backstroke, a provable 100 yd backstroke time shall be submitted.
• Times achieved prior to December 14, 2022 will not be permitted. All times must have been
achieved in USA Swimming sanctioned, observed or approved meets.
• Entry times will be verified through SWIMS. Coaches will be asked to provide proof of times
when asked by the Meet Director for any time not found in SWIMS. Failure to prove such a time
before the event, will result in the swimmer being scratched from that event.


---When they say provable times, that typically meets SWIMS which are the times from USA Sanctioned meets. (not summer swim, hs, etc.).

---Sometimes you can swim bonus events if you qualify for one event. That info will be in the meet announcement too.

Good luck to your swimmer!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And the qualifying time has to be obtained after the last day of the same meet the year before. Essentially - you have a year to attain the time.

Not correct.

NCI for 2024 states “Entry times need to have been achieved since September 1, 2022.” That’s more than a 2 yr window.

Depends on the meet and requirements. At the higher levels, it is not the "last day of the same meet" but usually a 14 month window and varies on what months the use in the calendar year.

Anonymous wrote:And the qualifying time has to be obtained after the last day of the same meet the year before. Essentially - you have a year to attain the time.

Not correct.

NCI for 2024 states “Entry times need to have been achieved since September 1, 2022.” That’s more than a 2 yr window.

Anonymous wrote:And the qualifying time has to be obtained after the last day of the same meet the year before. Essentially - you have a year to attain the time.

This is not correct. It’s a much bigger window.

For example jr champ times for 2025 states “Qualifying times must be achieved after February 25, 2023”

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Another question on qualifying time - does it have to be achieved in the individual event or do recorded relay splits also count?

For example if DS achieved the 50 fly qualifying time in his leg of the 200 medley relay - does he also need to achieve it in the individual 50 fly event?

Nope, no relay splits. I have a DC chasing a time right now that is good enough on the relay but not (yet) on the event.

As a prior posted stated. First leg counts only.

I’m not looking at my rule book but I’m pretty sure to use a split time the coach has to go to the table before the race is swum and ask for an official split. (Sometimes from a relay and sometimes from like a 200). Assuming the split is valid then it is entered as an official split that gets recorded in swims. You can’t just point at a record of a relay split and say ‘see I have a cut’. (Well I mean you can tell whoever you like but it won’t get you in a meet ).

and soft pad touches on splits can’t be cleaned up, it’s not like at end of heat when plungers and stop watches are the back-ups to the pads

If touchpads are working correctly, weird split times could be due to soft (pad) touches

Anonymous wrote:In case you are wondering why the 2nd, 3rd and 4th relay splits don’t count, those relay splits are typically 0.5-0.7 sec faster than from a regular start. This is because the swimmer is watching the prior leg swim in and can anticipate their start, rather than react to the starting horn. The most elite swimmers take 0.6-0.7 sec to react to the starting horn, so age groupers are probably more like 0.8 sec. Also, many kids can get a better start from a relay takeoff, although not all. My kids have a better flat start than relay start.

Thanks. Want to set expectations for DS and I wasn’t sure if they counted so I appreciate the info. I’m also noticing some very odd relay split times in meet mobile from Winter Classic and I was watching the relays so I wonder if these splits are not reliable. But meet mobile from winter classic has a lot of odd things. Hopefully it’s cleaned up before results are published.

In case you are wondering why the 2nd, 3rd and 4th relay splits don’t count, those relay splits are typically 0.5-0.7 sec faster than from a regular start. This is because the swimmer is watching the prior leg swim in and can anticipate their start, rather than react to the starting horn. The most elite swimmers take 0.6-0.7 sec to react to the starting horn, so age groupers are probably more like 0.8 sec. Also, many kids can get a better start from a relay takeoff, although not all. My kids have a better flat start than relay start.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Another question on qualifying time - does it have to be achieved in the individual event or do recorded relay splits also count?

For example if DS achieved the 50 fly qualifying time in his leg of the 200 medley relay - does he also need to achieve it in the individual 50 fly event?

Nope, no relay splits. I have a DC chasing a time right now that is good enough on the relay but not (yet) on the event.

As PP stated, times for the first leg of relays are official individual times (regular start). The times don’t count for the other 3 legs.