Anonymous wrote:I’m a psychiatrist and have had patients who weren’t able to teach their children developmentally appropriate behavior, either because of serious childhood trauma themselves (think sadistic parents, not neglectful ones), borderline intellect, or schizophrenia in the parent.

Personally, I would contact CPS, and they can go into the home and do an investigation.

Anonymous wrote:I also teach kindergarten and I had one untrained student last year and one this year. Luckily, one parent agreed to move the child down to pre-k since his birthday was in late August. The student last year was at least 5 and a half. No special needs, no speech delay. Mom just said he "wasn't interested" in using the bathroom. Admin told me that he would need to be able to change himself if he had an accident or his parent would need to come do it. It was amazing how quickly he was trained after Mom had to come in at least once a week.

Anonymous wrote:I’m a psychiatrist and have had patients who weren’t able to teach their children developmentally appropriate behavior, either because of serious childhood trauma themselves (think sadistic parents, not neglectful ones), borderline intellect, or schizophrenia in the parent.

Personally, I would contact CPS, and they can go into the home and do an investigation.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP have you ever potty trained a child?

I've potty trained three and two were easy and one was not. I can tell you from experience that cleaning up accidents (or changing diapers) of an older child who is struggling to potty train is not easier than potty training a child. But it's sometimes what happens. In our case the child who potty trained late (not 5, but a little after age 4, still way later than the other two) has ADHD and there are a number of factors that make it harder for her than for other kids. She tends to be dismissive of bodily discomfort (also does this with pain) and will just power through rather than say something. She hates stopping what she's doing and it can cause anxiety to disrupt an activity in order to go to the bathroom. She also used to have major issues with using bathrooms outside our home, which would lead to her withholding poop, which would lead to constipation, which tends to make it even harder for kids to recognize the urge to urinate. It was very difficult but trust me when I say that we were very aware of these issues and working hard to address them.

Agree with the teacher PP who noted that what looks like indifference to you might be embarrassment, and will add that it could also be due to conditioning themselves to remain calm/neutral to the point of detachment regarding their child's potty issues, because a very late training child can be a massive form of stress and that can lead parents to become intense and stressed about it, which also tends to make pottying issues worse and lead to anxiety and withholding in the child. One thing we learned from the behavioral therapist we worked with was to adopt an approach of nonchalance, "it will happen when it happens," not because we were indifferent but because our child needed to internalize the idea that this process was in their control and that we had faith it would resolve. It took a great deal of willpower to do this.

Also agree with teacher PP that you need to view the parents as allies in this, and should absolutely reach out to resources at the school to come up with solutions that help the child in moving towards independence in this area without taking all your time away from the other children in class. By the way, whether the child has a diagnosis or not, this issue will qualify them for an IEP so if that hasn't been discussed, you should initiate that process.

A kindergartener is 1+ year older than someone who is a little older than 4.

Anonymous wrote:I'm trying to imagine what kind of school you work in that you would have to write a post on DCUM asking about this issue. Have you no resources at your school?

I worked with a K student who was not potty trained but school personnel (spec ed teacher and paras) worked with him from the first day of school. I believe his parents were also participating at home, it was a team effort. He was autistic and also had weak muscle issues.

We also potty trained a 10 yr old who was much more seriously disabled whose parents were unable to train mostly due to having four other kids at home. Not lazy, just overwhelmed.

I have also worked with 2nd and 3rd graders who wet their pants regularly or needed help wiping. We did what we could to help them learn what they needed to learn.

These types of issues are common at all elementary schools, OP needs to find who they need to consult with and get them on board with this student's problem. I've never heard of a school where the classroom teacher was expected to potty train students while teaching the curriculum and navigating the daily schedule.

Anonymous wrote:OP have you ever potty trained a child?

I've potty trained three and two were easy and one was not. I can tell you from experience that cleaning up accidents (or changing diapers) of an older child who is struggling to potty train is not easier than potty training a child. But it's sometimes what happens. In our case the child who potty trained late (not 5, but a little after age 4, still way later than the other two) has ADHD and there are a number of factors that make it harder for her than for other kids. She tends to be dismissive of bodily discomfort (also does this with pain) and will just power through rather than say something. She hates stopping what she's doing and it can cause anxiety to disrupt an activity in order to go to the bathroom. She also used to have major issues with using bathrooms outside our home, which would lead to her withholding poop, which would lead to constipation, which tends to make it even harder for kids to recognize the urge to urinate. It was very difficult but trust me when I say that we were very aware of these issues and working hard to address them.

Agree with the teacher PP who noted that what looks like indifference to you might be embarrassment, and will add that it could also be due to conditioning themselves to remain calm/neutral to the point of detachment regarding their child's potty issues, because a very late training child can be a massive form of stress and that can lead parents to become intense and stressed about it, which also tends to make pottying issues worse and lead to anxiety and withholding in the child. One thing we learned from the behavioral therapist we worked with was to adopt an approach of nonchalance, "it will happen when it happens," not because we were indifferent but because our child needed to internalize the idea that this process was in their control and that we had faith it would resolve. It took a great deal of willpower to do this.

Also agree with teacher PP that you need to view the parents as allies in this, and should absolutely reach out to resources at the school to come up with solutions that help the child in moving towards independence in this area without taking all your time away from the other children in class. By the way, whether the child has a diagnosis or not, this issue will qualify them for an IEP so if that hasn't been discussed, you should initiate that process.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I worked with a 5 year old like that once, child had developmental disabilities but the reason why they hadn’t been trained was lack of parent follow through. No other reason than dad worked away from home and mom was too busy playing games on the computer to be bothered. She knew this as she admitted that she was the reason the child hadn’t been trained.

I had to have my supervisees train when we were in the home (so like 3 hours, 5-10 times per week) and after a couple months the mom hopped on board. Not ideal but it worked, much more quickly than I had expected actually.

I’d ask parent if there’s a medical concern and if not then train in school and find a way to teach mom what you did so she can follow through at home. Some parents just need someone to guide them in the right direction or to see that their child is capable of something they didn’t expect them to be capable of.

No, a kindergarten teacher does not have time to potty train a child in school. Preschool teachers can assist with training but K teachers cannot. The teacher needs to get assistance from the school's SpEd team and the nurse and there needs to be a plan in place with the parents to address the issue in order to help this child and minimize disruption in the class.

Also, just asking "is there a medical issue?" doesn't sound like it's good enough. They're maybe a medical issue the parent is unaware or doesn't even know how to ask the pediatrician about. Also with potty training, people have this idea that the only reason for delayed training (other than "lazy parents") is a physical disability, but kids with autism, ADHD, and anxiety all tend to train later and with more difficulty.

Also the teacher already noted there are speech and communication delays. Speech and communication are an important part of potty training because the child must learn to articulate the need to go. Again, as others have noted, this is a disability issue.

It's gross to me how many people in this thread are talking about this like it's obviously lazy parents when it's very clear this is a child with a disability of some kind. All the lazy parents I know still potty trained their kids by 5 because they were too lazy to keep changing diapers! Something else is going on here. This child needs help.