Anonymous wrote:TL;DR: My kids aren't very intellectual, but they party a lot and are social climbers, and that's what I value.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Naive students and parents, usually middle class and below, disdain the Greek system and talk about how they don't want to participate. They claim they're more serious students and aren't into that scene.

What these people don't understand is that the Greek social scene actually trains you to operate in the business world. You learn the importance of socializing, sizing people up at a glance, social drinking, and how to present yourself so that you're accepted and click with the executive class. Most importantly, you learn that you need to be extroverted and to cultivate connections to succeed in your career.

The nose to the grindstone "strivers" don't learn these things. They think the real world is like the classroom, when in fact it's much like a fraternity social. They dress the wrong way, say the wrong things, and clumsily offer opinions that might be true but are socially awkward. So they get pigeonholed as drones. They don't get the promotions, and they don't get the hot spouses.

I've advised my kids to scout out the best Greek orgs, and they've turned out great. They're not brilliant intellectuals, but their superstars socially and interpersonally. They know how to size up a crowd and maximize the benefit to themselves, to capitalize on opportunities to engage with people who can help them. They also know how to avoid people who will damage their reputations, and they don't hold one ounce of guilt for being what some would say is "mean". They know you can't please everyone, so connect with the important people and be the one who others try to please.

Define “turned out great”.

OP here. One is a very successful pharma rep and engaged to a surgeon she met on one of her stops. The other is in a management trainee program at a Fortune 100 company. To reply to another poster, I had been referring to strivers in the classroom, the brown-nose types. But yes they are strivers where it counts, in climbing the latter and engaging people.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Naive students and parents, usually middle class and below, disdain the Greek system and talk about how they don't want to participate. They claim they're more serious students and aren't into that scene.

What these people don't understand is that the Greek social scene actually trains you to operate in the business world. You learn the importance of socializing, sizing people up at a glance, social drinking, and how to present yourself so that you're accepted and click with the executive class. Most importantly, you learn that you need to be extroverted and to cultivate connections to succeed in your career.

The nose to the grindstone "strivers" don't learn these things. They think the real world is like the classroom, when in fact it's much like a fraternity social. They dress the wrong way, say the wrong things, and clumsily offer opinions that might be true but are socially awkward. So they get pigeonholed as drones. They don't get the promotions, and they don't get the hot spouses.

I've advised my kids to scout out the best Greek orgs, and they've turned out great. They're not brilliant intellectuals, but their superstars socially and interpersonally. They know how to size up a crowd and maximize the benefit to themselves, to capitalize on opportunities to engage with people who can help them. They also know how to avoid people who will damage their reputations, and they don't hold one ounce of guilt for being what some would say is "mean". They know you can't please everyone, so connect with the important people and be the one who others try to please.

Define “turned out great”.

OP here. One is a very successful pharma rep and engaged to a surgeon she met on one of her stops. The other is in a management trainee program at a Fortune 100 company. To reply to another poster, I had been referring to strivers in the classroom, the brown-nose types. But yes they are strivers where it counts, in climbing the latter and engaging people.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Depends entirely on your filed.

My kid is getting a science PhD.

Thank God she did not choose a field where success hinges on glad-handing and drinking skills. The ability to make fake small talk and butter up those in the Executive Suite.

But it sounds like you got the flavor of kids you wanted, so it is all good.

Lol. Guess who ends up running things at the university, sweetie? An awful lot of it is about glad handing and unfortunately not about citation counts. It is everywhere!

Anonymous wrote:Naive students and parents, usually middle class and below, disdain the Greek system and talk about how they don't want to participate. They claim they're more serious students and aren't into that scene.

What these people don't understand is that the Greek social scene actually trains you to operate in the business world. You learn the importance of socializing, sizing people up at a glance, social drinking, and how to present yourself so that you're accepted and click with the executive class. Most importantly, you learn that you need to be extroverted and to cultivate connections to succeed in your career.

The nose to the grindstone "strivers" don't learn these things. They think the real world is like the classroom, when in fact it's much like a fraternity social. They dress the wrong way, say the wrong things, and clumsily offer opinions that might be true but are socially awkward. So they get pigeonholed as drones. They don't get the promotions, and they don't get the hot spouses.

I've advised my kids to scout out the best Greek orgs, and they've turned out great. They're not brilliant intellectuals, but they’re superstars socially and interpersonally. They know how to size up a crowd and maximize the benefit to themselves, to capitalize on opportunities to engage with people who can help them. They also know how to avoid people who will damage their reputations, and they don't hold one ounce of guilt for being what some would say is "mean". They know you can't please everyone, so connect with the important people and be the one who others try to please.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Depends entirely on your filed.

My kid is getting a science PhD.

Thank God she did not choose a field where success hinges on glad-handing and drinking skills. The ability to make fake small talk and butter up those in the Executive Suite.

Oh sweet summer child. Do you truly think success in academia does not require glad-handing, fake small talk, and the ability to butter up your superiors? Do you not know how hiring and promotion works in academic departments? Better get her working on her social skills or she will be one of the many sad PhDs who does not get tenure. In which case... she will end up working in the business world, where she will need to know how to do glad-handling, fake small talk, and buttering up superiors.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Naive students and parents, usually middle class and below, disdain the Greek system and talk about how they don't want to participate. They claim they're more serious students and aren't into that scene.

What these people don't understand is that the Greek social scene actually trains you to operate in the business world. You learn the importance of socializing, sizing people up at a glance, social drinking, and how to present yourself so that you're accepted and click with the executive class. Most importantly, you learn that you need to be extroverted and to cultivate connections to succeed in your career.

The nose to the grindstone "strivers" don't learn these things. They think the real world is like the classroom, when in fact it's much like a fraternity social. They dress the wrong way, say the wrong things, and clumsily offer opinions that might be true but are socially awkward. So they get pigeonholed as drones. They don't get the promotions, and they don't get the hot spouses.

I've advised my kids to scout out the best Greek orgs, and they've turned out great. They're not brilliant intellectuals, but their superstars socially and interpersonally. They know how to size up a crowd and maximize the benefit to themselves, to capitalize on opportunities to engage with people who can help them. They also know how to avoid people who will damage their reputations, and they don't hold one ounce of guilt for being what some would say is "mean". They know you can't please everyone, so connect with the important people and be the one who others try to please.

Define “turned out great”.

OP here. One is a very successful pharma rep and engaged to a surgeon she met on one of her stops. The other is in a management trainee program at a Fortune 100 company. To reply to another poster, I had been referring to strivers in the classroom, the brown-nose types. But yes they are strivers where it counts, in climbing the latter and engaging people.

Anonymous wrote:Depends entirely on your filed.

My kid is getting a science PhD.

Thank God she did not choose a field where success hinges on glad-handing and drinking skills. The ability to make fake small talk and butter up those in the Executive Suite.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Naive students and parents, usually middle class and below, disdain the Greek system and talk about how they don't want to participate. They claim they're more serious students and aren't into that scene.

What these people don't understand is that the Greek social scene actually trains you to operate in the business world. You learn the importance of socializing, sizing people up at a glance, social drinking, and how to present yourself so that you're accepted and click with the executive class. Most importantly, you learn that you need to be extroverted and to cultivate connections to succeed in your career.

The nose to the grindstone "strivers" don't learn these things. They think the real world is like the classroom, when in fact it's much like a fraternity social. They dress the wrong way, say the wrong things, and clumsily offer opinions that might be true but are socially awkward. So they get pigeonholed as drones. They don't get the promotions, and they don't get the hot spouses.

I've advised my kids to scout out the best Greek orgs, and they've turned out great. They're not brilliant intellectuals, but their superstars socially and interpersonally. They know how to size up a crowd and maximize the benefit to themselves, to capitalize on opportunities to engage with people who can help them. They also know how to avoid people who will damage their reputations, and they don't hold one ounce of guilt for being what some would say is "mean". They know you can't please everyone, so connect with the important people and be the one who others try to please.

Define “turned out great”.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Depends entirely on your filed.

My kid is getting a science PhD.

Thank God she did not choose a field where success hinges on glad-handing and drinking skills. The ability to make fake small talk and butter up those in the Executive Suite.

But it sounds like you got the flavor of kids you wanted, so it is all good.

Lol. Guess who ends up running things at the university, sweetie? An awful lot of it is about glad handing and unfortunately not about citation counts. It is everywhere!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Depends entirely on your filed.

My kid is getting a science PhD.

Thank God she did not choose a field where success hinges on glad-handing and drinking skills. The ability to make fake small talk and butter up those in the Executive Suite.

But it sounds like you got the flavor of kids you wanted, so it is all good.

Lol. Guess who ends up running things at the university, sweetie? An awful lot of it is about glad handing and unfortunately not about citation counts. It is everywhere!