Y'all might enjoy the Paul Fussell book "Class: A Guide Through the American Class System." It's quite dated (early 80s), and there's no small amount of satire, but it covers the subject really well anyway.

It will explain to those folks on here claiming that having several million makes you UC isn't even close to accurate.

With inflation, housing costs, etc-I think we (collective society) will reevaluate (again) what middle class looks like for people. People who consider themselves MC are starting to be priced out of travel (hotels and flights are up) and eating out. And entertainment like concerts and the performing arts. They are being priced out of neighborhoods with decent schools. And they are reevaluating college choices bc costs are astronomical. Some people might argue that these things have always been reserved for only the UMC.

I grew up MC (not UMC). I went to private school but was on significant financial aid. I had a job since I was 14 yr old and from that point on if I wanted clothes, a certain shampoo, a CD, some makeup, etc., I had to pay for it.

No fancy vacations. Only vacations were where we could drive to, like a state park or Virginia Beach. I didn't get a passport until I was 26. My parents worked commissioned based jobs (only being in real estate) which made income very unstable and we always had bill collectors calling. We were not allowed to do any expensive extra curriculars and I even had to pay the fees to pay for my APs, ACTs and SATs (my parents weren't mean, they just didn't have the money and I had younger siblings). My parents were just so bad with money, it was a vicious cycle and caused so much stress.

I broke this cycle and am very proud to be financially independent and stable.

A person's spending habits don't determine class status. You can have middle class income and spend like you're UMC, on credit. You can also have an MC income and afford certain UMC things (not on credit) depending on how you arrange your finances. For instance a MC family might afford regular foreign travel by always eating at home, or forgoing a car in favor of the bus.

However, if you have a MC income but no mortgage because you inherited your home, of don't have to save for college or retirement due to gifts or inheritance, you are no longer MC because you have family wealth. Even if you live very frugally. Owning a home outright (especially in a place like the DMV) or not worrying about long term savings pushes you out of the MC.

Anonymous wrote:I think we are middle class in DC - one child, one parent. HHI is ca $60k. I work only 20 hours a week right now and 8 months in typical year.
$30k car is paid off, low mileage and will run forever.
Camps and aftercare are about $5k a year.
We take an international trip once or twice a year but we stay with family. Same with trips to Sunshine state.
The reason I feel like we are middle class is not the income, but our lifestyle and/or the money we save, or rather, the money we don't spend.
I can go on and on about how I save money/time, but the list is too long. Here are a few examples: parking is almost always free for me in DC; driving to school/work is under 5 minutes and there's no traffic; food/drinks are free at work; uniform is cheap and easy to clean and replace. Our health/dental is free. Going to my dentist abroad is also very cheap.
we have no pets (extended family has many), we are hardly ever sick ,and no expensive hobbies.
Our biggest expense is cheap rental apartment with utilities included. We love our rental, the building, and the neighborhood. I have owned before but now is not the time.
Babysitting is done by extended family for free almost every weekend. Family pays for all expenses when the child is with them.
We have 100s of thousands in investments, but also a guaranteed income source.
No chance of loss of employment.
No need for private school, which for me is more powerful than the fuzzy feeling I'd get if my child were in private (Just joking. I wouldn't get such feeling).
Having the option to not work or work very little is another thing that makes me feel like I'm middle class. Not worrying about money helps, but so does few needs and wants.
We have enough money for college, but the option of going to school abroad is very cool.
This winter break DC wants to learn to ride a horse and ski. Both activities are very cheap or free when we visit family abroad.

You are not MC! You say your HHI is $60k but you obviously have other sources of income from investments and family. If you were actually living off 60k, you'd be struggling. After taxes, that probably barely covers your necessities (housing, food, transportation) with zero extras like multiple foreign trips each year or activities like skiing and horseback riding for you kid.

Come ON people.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think I’m MC.. 1 adult 1 child net income $125, mortgaged condo, 12 yr old car. 1 credit card for point only and no student loans.

I splurge in the following areas:
Vacation (3 per year 2 are international and 1 local )
Summer camp
Home furnishings

I am frugal about
Groceries ( Lidl or Trader Joe’s)
Clothes ( poshmark or goodwill)
Eating out - entertainment ( movies on Tuesdays for $5 eating out as a treat during restaurant week)

Things I could do better about
- liquid savings ( I put all my money in Roth and 401k and could do better about a standard savings)
- ramping up health. I survive off coffee, junk food and getting out of the house more.
- charity, donating, volunteering

Your net income to household size is definitely not what I would call MC, nor are the yearly international trips or summer camp.

What would you call it? Reward ourselves with trips that I save aggressively for by not eating out or buying the latest and greatest ( see car). Also summer camp is done in lieu of after school activities/sports. Not saying one or the other are middle class - but middle class to me means balance… not extremes in one area or the other - hence the term atleast to my mind MIDDLE. Middle income middle choices middle lifestyle.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If we go with approximately the middle of the middle class income distribution - say $120K for a family of 4 - I think the corresponding lifestyle is:

- home ownership, but no major renovations
- 2 cars with loans, buys cars used
- public school
- No issues covering monthly groceries, utilities; good insurance through work
- 1 vacation in driving distance each summer, vacation with flights every 3 years or so
- School sports, school music programs but minimal to no extra private lessons or club programs
- Savings to support moderate emergencies (new appliance, car repair) but not $10K+ expenses. No investments outside 401K and 529
- Minimal college savings; not enough to do 4 years at state flagship for both kids without loans
- Can buy new clothes, shoes as needed but shopping sales / TJ Maxx

This sounds the most accurate and realistic.

Agree- this was exactly my family’s life growing up.

We are a family of 5 and this is basically us. It’s tight but we’re making it work. Very grateful for union insurance + pension, it’s truly the only reason why we are not living paycheck to paycheck.

Anonymous wrote:I think we are middle class in DC - one child, one parent. HHI is ca $60k. I work only 20 hours a week right now and 8 months in typical year.
$30k car is paid off, low mileage and will run forever.
Camps and aftercare are about $5k a year.
We take an international trip once or twice a year but we stay with family. Same with trips to Sunshine state.
The reason I feel like we are middle class is not the income, but our lifestyle and/or the money we save, or rather, the money we don't spend.
I can go on and on about how I save money/time, but the list is too long. Here are a few examples: parking is almost always free for me in DC; driving to school/work is under 5 minutes and there's no traffic; food/drinks are free at work; uniform is cheap and easy to clean and replace. Our health/dental is free. Going to my dentist abroad is also very cheap.
we have no pets (extended family has many), we are hardly ever sick ,and no expensive hobbies.
Our biggest expense is cheap rental apartment with utilities included. We love our rental, the building, and the neighborhood. I have owned before but now is not the time.
Babysitting is done by extended family for free almost every weekend. Family pays for all expenses when the child is with them.
We have 100s of thousands in investments, but also a guaranteed income source.
No chance of loss of employment.
No need for private school, which for me is more powerful than the fuzzy feeling I'd get if my child were in private (Just joking. I wouldn't get such feeling).
Having the option to not work or work very little is another thing that makes me feel like I'm middle class. Not worrying about money helps, but so does few needs and wants.
We have enough money for college, but the option of going to school abroad is very cool.
This winter break DC wants to learn to ride a horse and ski. Both activities are very cheap or free when we visit family abroad.

You are not middle class.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would say this is the floor for a family of four.

You either own or rent a home with at least two bedrooms, and you can pay your rent or mortgage each month.

You feel safe enough in your neighborhood that you can come and go during the day as you please and you feel safe at night.

You have adequate heat in the winter.

You have enough food. You may not ever eat out or have anything fancy, but you can afford basics at the grocery store and there is always enough. No one is going to bed hungry.

You can go to the doctor when you’re sick, and so can your children.

You either live close enough to public transit that you can get around without a personal vehicle, or you live far enough away that is not feasible and can afford an old car that runs okay and has to get to and from work, though you may have a very long commute.

You have clothes - maybe not a ton, and they may all be from thrift stores, but they’re appropriate for the various activities you take part in, and are in good repair.

You have a TV, at least one way of watching it (cable/Netflix/Hulu) and either a smartphone with a data plan or a home computer and internet.

You have some small extra in your life that’s fun. An annual camping vacation. A hobby you enjoy. An annual visit to family. A summer day at the beach. A pet. Just one thing at a minimum.

Your kids go to public school.

PP just to add - the things that would push you out of MC and into UC (again, as a family of four):

Annual international travel for the family.

Private school for the kids.

Living in certain neighborhoods.

Buying nice new cars and never keeping them more than 3 years.

A housekeeper, chef or house manager (not a once a week cleaning service).

This is accurate but I would add either you have a housekeeper or one parent stays at home.

I think we are middle class in DC - one child, one parent. HHI is ca $60k. I work only 20 hours a week right now and 8 months in typical year.
$30k car is paid off, low mileage and will run forever.
Camps and aftercare are about $5k a year.
We take an international trip once or twice a year but we stay with family. Same with trips to Sunshine state.
The reason I feel like we are middle class is not the income, but our lifestyle and/or the money we save, or rather, the money we don't spend.
I can go on and on about how I save money/time, but the list is too long. Here are a few examples: parking is almost always free for me in DC; driving to school/work is under 5 minutes and there's no traffic; food/drinks are free at work; uniform is cheap and easy to clean and replace. Our health/dental is free. Going to my dentist abroad is also very cheap.
we have no pets (extended family has many), we are hardly ever sick ,and no expensive hobbies.
Our biggest expense is cheap rental apartment with utilities included. We love our rental, the building, and the neighborhood. I have owned before but now is not the time.
Babysitting is done by extended family for free almost every weekend. Family pays for all expenses when the child is with them.
We have 100s of thousands in investments, but also a guaranteed income source.
No chance of loss of employment.
No need for private school, which for me is more powerful than the fuzzy feeling I'd get if my child were in private (Just joking. I wouldn't get such feeling).
Having the option to not work or work very little is another thing that makes me feel like I'm middle class. Not worrying about money helps, but so does few needs and wants.
We have enough money for college, but the option of going to school abroad is very cool.
This winter break DC wants to learn to ride a horse and ski. Both activities are very cheap or free when we visit family abroad.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Well, you mention "lifestyle," so I'll stick to that. But "class" (a term I find kinda gross, but whatever) of course covers more than that -- most importantly values.

Imho MC covers almost everyone in the DMV. If you are UC your home is most likely gated and you don't need any wage income. If you are LC, your lifestyle probably includes needing assistance -- for example, I have friends who work really hard but still need Medicaid.

MC is everyone else. They live, like I said above, pretty much everywhere around here. They drive all kinds of cars, some, like DH, hate spending on cars (DH has a 14 year old Chevy Blazer), but many are weirdly class conscious and buy expensive, new cars every few years to telegraph -- I don't know, something. Think: All of those Porsche Cayennes. As far as kids' activities go, it's the MC that is obsessed with Ivies, SLACs, etc -- so most (well, at least parents who actually parent their kids) focus on kids' activities that will help them get ahead on college apps, socially, etc. This is super apparent with all of the posts here on DCUM about this.

I mean ... MC is incredibly broad (shrinking as it may be).

Totally bs drivel. OP meant true middle class people in the DMV, I would say households earning less that 250k HHI. I have a net worth of 8 million at 49 and will continue to work another 12 yrs, I am not UC but I am realistic enough to understand that I am not MC either, just because I work.

If you have a net worth of 8 million, you are clearly UC.

We are middle class. Two parents, one child. HHI of 140k, was closer to 100k until about 2 years ago, so that's been a big jump.

We own a home (tiny 2-bedroom) and one car. We tend to hold onto consumer goods until they are on their last legs -- TVs, phones, computers, furniture, cars, etc. Every extra year we can go with the existing one is money in the bank (except for cars -- there comes a time repair costs outweigh the value of holding onto it, we always walk this line).

Where we splurge: kid's activities and a handful of hobbies/interests that are really worth it to us. We go to a couple pro sporting events a year, I am a member at a local museum, DH owns a high quality road bike. These are things that make our lives feel rich and special, even though we live in a modest home and skimp in other ways. We also take one somewhat splurge vacation every two years, but I suspect even these seem frugal to most people -- a splurge for us would be spending about 3500 all in, though I am very good at using points and finding deals so it doesn't feel like a compromise.

Where we save: only having one kid (I did want two and sometimes this makes me sad, but it's worth it to know we won't be stretched too thin financially), we almost never eat out and when we do, it's frugal take out or a mid-price family restaurant. We spend next to nothing on clothes, home decor, and entertainment beyond what I outlined above. We use free resources like the library and freebo. We buy used or pick things up from neighborhood listerves or buy nothing groups. We walk a lot. We are handy and do a lot of our own home repairs. Most vacations are very inexpensive, by car, staying in inexpensive hotels or AirBnBs. We work hard not to throw money away on things -- I research purchases extensively, cost compare, and we are very thoughtful about asking ourselves "do we really need this? will we really use it?"

Savings: We are doing okay. We saved aggressively for retirement before buying a home or having a kid, and that has helped us as we've had to lower retirement contributions in order to pay for our downpayment and childcare. We've been slower to start up college savings but are on track now. It is a huge relief to know that we only have one child and can focus our financial efforts there and not have to worry about dividing it. It makes savings more simple. It also makes expenses a bit more predictable in terms of stuff like summer camp, activities, orthodontia, etc.

We don't live an extravagant life but we have pretty much everything we want. Sometimes a smaller, more basic, or less frequent version of it than a wealthier family would have, but we're really not going without much of anything that I can think of. I don't feel deprived.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If we go with approximately the middle of the middle class income distribution - say $120K for a family of 4 - I think the corresponding lifestyle is:

- home ownership, but no major renovations
- 2 cars with loans, buys cars used
- public school
- No issues covering monthly groceries, utilities; good insurance through work
- 1 vacation in driving distance each summer, vacation with flights every 3 years or so
- School sports, school music programs but minimal to no extra private lessons or club programs
- Savings to support moderate emergencies (new appliance, car repair) but not $10K+ expenses. No investments outside 401K and 529
- Minimal college savings; not enough to do 4 years at state flagship for both kids without loans
- Can buy new clothes, shoes as needed but shopping sales / TJ Maxx

This sounds the most accurate and realistic.

Agree- this was exactly my family’s life growing up.

Anonymous wrote:I would say this is the floor for a family of four.

You either own or rent a home with at least two bedrooms, and you can pay your rent or mortgage each month.

You feel safe enough in your neighborhood that you can come and go during the day as you please and you feel safe at night.

You have adequate heat in the winter.

You have enough food. You may not ever eat out or have anything fancy, but you can afford basics at the grocery store and there is always enough. No one is going to bed hungry.

You can go to the doctor when you’re sick, and so can your children.

You either live close enough to public transit that you can get around without a personal vehicle, or you live far enough away that is not feasible and can afford an old car that runs okay and has to get to and from work, though you may have a very long commute.

You have clothes - maybe not a ton, and they may all be from thrift stores, but they’re appropriate for the various activities you take part in, and are in good repair.

You have a TV, at least one way of watching it (cable/Netflix/Hulu) and either a smartphone with a data plan or a home computer and internet.

You have some small extra in your life that’s fun. An annual camping vacation. A hobby you enjoy. An annual visit to family. A summer day at the beach. A pet. Just one thing at a minimum.

Your kids go to public school.

PP just to add - the things that would push you out of MC and into UC (again, as a family of four):

Annual international travel for the family.

Private school for the kids.

Living in certain neighborhoods.

Buying nice new cars and never keeping them more than 3 years.

A housekeeper, chef or house manager (not a once a week cleaning service).

I would say this is the floor for a family of four.

You either own or rent a home with at least two bedrooms, and you can pay your rent or mortgage each month.

You feel safe enough in your neighborhood that you can come and go during the day as you please and you feel safe at night.

You have adequate heat in the winter.

You have enough food. You may not ever eat out or have anything fancy, but you can afford basics at the grocery store and there is always enough. No one is going to bed hungry.

You can go to the doctor when you’re sick, and so can your children.

You either live close enough to public transit that you can get around without a personal vehicle, or you live far enough away that is not feasible and can afford an old car that runs okay and has to get to and from work, though you may have a very long commute.

You have clothes - maybe not a ton, and they may all be from thrift stores, but they’re appropriate for the various activities you take part in, and are in good repair.

You have a TV, at least one way of watching it (cable/Netflix/Hulu) and either a smartphone with a data plan or a home computer and internet.

You have some small extra in your life that’s fun. An annual camping vacation. A hobby you enjoy. An annual visit to family. A summer day at the beach. A pet. Just one thing at a minimum.

Your kids go to public school.