Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

NP. I am not in the know about TJ so I'm reading these posts and wondering what the truth is. I assumed that prior to recent changes the top performers are admitted from the pool of applicants? Is that a naive assumption? What is the earlier poster talking about when they say a random probability out of X? And what do you mean when you say TJ doesn't aim to admit the top performing/advanced students? I'm thoroughly confused.

The admissions process aims to allocate seats based on students' race, using an arbitrary non-merit process for final selection within the race category.

Initially, all applicants are grouped according to their racial backgrounds. Within each racial group, since most applicants have similar GPAs, the selection process primarily relies on the applicant's personal essay. There is no evidence of this essay getting scored, nothing is disclosed about how this essay proves students advanced academic abilities. There isn't a standardized test to assess an applicant's proficiency in math, reading, and science. Consequently, an applicant's likelihood of being admitted becomes subject to somewhat arbitrary probability, based on the predetermined seat allocation for each racial group and the number of applicants within each group.

For instance, there were 160 African American applicants, and 37 of them were admitted. But were they the most qualified in STEM subjects? No one knows because the test that evaluated students' in-depth knowledge of math, reading, and science was removed. Using the principles of probability theory, even a highly qualified African American applicant had only a random chance of 37 out of 160, roughly a 1/4 chance of being selected. This probability also applied to mediocre African American students and even less qualified African American students. This means that all three calibers of African American students are being admitted. It's not until their freshman year grades that the mediocre and less qualified students may realize they cannot handle the rigor of TJ.

In essence, two problems exist here. First, they're admitting students who aren't prepared for high-rigor TJ classes, which isn't fair to them. Second, they eliminated a STEM test, so smart African American students can't demonstrate their proficiency in advanced subjects like math, reading, and science, which is also unfair.

This unfair treatment applies to all student race groups, including latino, asian american, whites, etc. The stem exam was eliminated to limit the number of asian american students, but now students of all races are paying the price.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

NP. I am not in the know about TJ so I'm reading these posts and wondering what the truth is. I assumed that prior to recent changes the top performers are admitted from the pool of applicants? Is that a naive assumption? What is the earlier poster talking about when they say a random probability out of X? And what do you mean when you say TJ doesn't aim to admit the top performing/advanced students? I'm thoroughly confused.

The admissions process aims to allocate seats based on students' race, using an arbitrary non-merit process for final selection within the race category.

Initially, all applicants are grouped according to their racial backgrounds. Within each racial group, since most applicants have similar GPAs, the selection process primarily relies on the applicant's personal essay. There is no evidence of this essay getting scored, nothing is disclosed about how this essay proves students advanced academic abilities. There isn't a standardized test to assess an applicant's proficiency in math, reading, and science. Consequently, an applicant's likelihood of being admitted becomes subject to somewhat arbitrary probability, based on the predetermined seat allocation for each racial group and the number of applicants within each group.

For instance, there were 160 African American applicants, and 37 of them were admitted. But were they the most qualified in STEM subjects? No one knows because the test that evaluated students' in-depth knowledge of math, reading, and science was removed. Using the principles of probability theory, even a highly qualified African American applicant had only a random chance of 37 out of 160, roughly a 1/4 chance of being selected. This probability also applied to mediocre African American students and even less qualified African American students. This means that all three calibers of African American students are being admitted. It's not until their freshman year grades that the mediocre and less qualified students may realize they cannot handle the rigor of TJ.

In essence, two problems exist here. First, they're admitting students who aren't prepared for high-rigor TJ classes, which isn't fair to them. Second, they eliminated a STEM test, so smart African American students can't demonstrate their proficiency in advanced subjects like math, reading, and science, which is also unfair.

This unfair treatment applies to all student race groups, including latino, asian american, whites, etc. The stem exam was eliminated to limit the number of asian american students, but now students of all races are paying the price.

Anonymous wrote:

NP. I am not in the know about TJ so I'm reading these posts and wondering what the truth is. I assumed that prior to recent changes the top performers are admitted from the pool of applicants? Is that a naive assumption? What is the earlier poster talking about when they say a random probability out of X? And what do you mean when you say TJ doesn't aim to admit the top performing/advanced students? I'm thoroughly confused.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is almost always far better to be a great student at a good school than a good student at a great school.

And the most important school you attend is the last school you attend.

Anonymous wrote:It is almost always far better to be a great student at a good school than a good student at a great school.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not OP - but do colleges regard a B at TJ as something equivalent to a A at a non TJ HS?

I think they would prefer a mostly A's student from a regular HS to a mostly B's student from TJ - assuming the same courses are taken

No they consider a B a B

I doubt it. If it's known that a school is rigorous and full of high achievers, a B means something different in that context vs a school of mostly underachievers.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not OP - but do colleges regard a B at TJ as something equivalent to a A at a non TJ HS?

I think they would prefer a mostly A's student from a regular HS to a mostly B's student from TJ - assuming the same courses are taken

No they consider a B a B

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DS is a sophomore at TJ and we are encouraging him to move back to base school. His grades in Freshman year were ok ( 2 B+'s and rest A's) but this year he is struggling. e.g. He is getting a B in Chemistry even after spending quite a bit of time on it ( and he tells me many of his classmates are doing worse than him).

Even though he is enjoying the overall TJ atmosphere and the learning opportunities, the overall the ratio of grades to effort is too small and not appear to be worth it. He has limited time for sports etc.

Maybe TJ is not for him? So we were thinking of moving back to base school while his grades ( and confidence) are good. Base HS is pretty good and has most of the courses he was planning to take

Any advice from parents who might have been in this situation? How will this look on the college applications?

Your student is not alone, and it is not his doing specifically and not yours either. This is the result of admitting students on a linguistic essay instead of using a rigorous math & science based STEM entrance criteria. Most students applying have a near 3.94 or 4.0 GPA, but there is objective measure who is getting admitted and who is excluded.

To better understand the issue, let's narrow our discussion to Asian American students. Out of 1580 Asian American applicants, 330 were admitted in 2027. There is no way to determine and state that all the 330 admitted are the top performing and advanced in math & science among that their racial pool. An Asian American student's admission is based on a random probability of 330 out of 1580, which is 1/5. Consequently, the 330 admitted Asian American students encompass a diverse range of academic proficiency levels, with 110 being at an A level, 110 at a B level, and the remaining 110 at a C level, when evaluated relative to a true STEM-based advanced math and science test.

Currently there is no way for an Asian American parent or any other race parent to know if their child's admission is based on the A, B, or C level of relative proficiency, UNTIL they enter TJ and find out through their freshman year grades, which is what you are noticing. You and your son NOW know that his middle school readiness and first year performance places him in the middle 1/3rd of the class. He is not alone, but he has a lot of work to do to get into the top 1/3rd of his class.

The bolded sentence is where you went off the rails. Nothing you stated after that point has any value or legitimacy because the premise was so flawed as to be unusable.

The italicized sentence is also problematic - technically true, but not of the value that I think you would want it to have in the argument for a few reasons:

1) It has never been a part of the TJ Admissions Office's directive to identify the "top performing and advanced" students in math and science. I challenge you to prove otherwise, since you are asserting positively (if obliquely) that such a directive would have ever existed in the first place.

2) There's also no evidence that the "top performing and advanced" students have EVER been admitted through any previous process - you merely believe that they have because along a couple of axes, previous classes have had narrowly more advanced students. Can you state categorically that the essay component (and even the teacher recommendation component) of the previous admissions process didn't eliminate some, and perhaps even many, of the "top performing and advanced" students?

3) I'm quite curious to know where you saw that 1580 applicants in the 2027 pool were Asian. I don't think that's been publicly released anywhere.

Anonymous wrote:DS is a sophomore at TJ and we are encouraging him to move back to base school. His grades in Freshman year were ok ( 2 B+'s and rest A's) but this year he is struggling. e.g. He is getting a B in Chemistry even after spending quite a bit of time on it ( and he tells me many of his classmates are doing worse than him).

Even though he is enjoying the overall TJ atmosphere and the learning opportunities, the overall the ratio of grades to effort is too small and not appear to be worth it. He has limited time for sports etc.

Maybe TJ is not for him? So we were thinking of moving back to base school while his grades ( and confidence) are good. Base HS is pretty good and has most of the courses he was planning to take

Any advice from parents who might have been in this situation? How will this look on the college applications?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DS is a sophomore at TJ and we are encouraging him to move back to base school. His grades in Freshman year were ok ( 2 B+'s and rest A's) but this year he is struggling. e.g. He is getting a B in Chemistry even after spending quite a bit of time on it ( and he tells me many of his classmates are doing worse than him).

Even though he is enjoying the overall TJ atmosphere and the learning opportunities, the overall the ratio of grades to effort is too small and not appear to be worth it. He has limited time for sports etc.

Maybe TJ is not for him? So we were thinking of moving back to base school while his grades ( and confidence) are good. Base HS is pretty good and has most of the courses he was planning to take

Any advice from parents who might have been in this situation? How will this look on the college applications?

Your student is not alone, and it is not his doing specifically and not yours either. This is the result of admitting students on a linguistic essay instead of using a rigorous math & science based STEM entrance criteria. Most students applying have a near 3.94 or 4.0 GPA, but there is objective measure who is getting admitted and who is excluded.

To better understand the issue, let's narrow our discussion to Asian American students. Out of 1580 Asian American applicants, 330 were admitted in 2027. There is no way to determine and state that all the 330 admitted are the top performing and advanced in math & science among that their racial pool. An Asian American student's admission is based on a random probability of 330 out of 1580, which is 1/5. Consequently, the 330 admitted Asian American students encompass a diverse range of academic proficiency levels, with 110 being at an A level, 110 at a B level, and the remaining 110 at a C level, when evaluated relative to a true STEM-based advanced math and science test.

Currently there is no way for an Asian American parent or any other race parent to know if their child's admission is based on the A, B, or C level of relative proficiency, UNTIL they enter TJ and find out through their freshman year grades, which is what you are noticing. You and your son NOW know that his middle school readiness and first year performance places him in the middle 1/3rd of the class. He is not alone, but he has a lot of work to do to get into the top 1/3rd of his class.