Anonymous
08/30/2023 15:14
Subject: At what point do we pull the plug?
Anonymous wrote:The sooner the better. You're lucky switching is an option. Do it. Or it can bring down all of her grades/and confidence. No reason to take Algebra in 7th, if not going well.
I completely agree. There is no advantage to being extra extra ahead if you aren't learning and doing well, and certainly not if it is giving you an unhappy childhood. There are many paths to the same place, give your child a happy path.
Anonymous
08/30/2023 15:14
Subject: At what point do we pull the plug?
Anonymous wrote:DC is 7th grade AAP and taking Algebra Honors. MS has been an adjustment in many ways. DC has always excelled in school, especially in math, but is struggling with the Algebra. Being challenged s little bit is good, but it’s manifesting itself in anxiety, stomach upset, and moodiness which is atypical of our normally upbeat child. Is it too soon to switch to 7th honors, or do we stick it out longer? Any similar first hand experiences welcome.
I am so sorry you have to face this situation.
I see this situation quite often. What you have is a learning gap in math somewhere in elementary school. The first time the gap shows up is in Algebra.
What I would do in this situation is look at pre-algebra concepts, see where the gaps are and hire a tutor to close those gaps. Just hiring a tutor to help with Algebra would be a band aid solution and the problem would continue into high school.
Anonymous
08/30/2023 15:11
Subject: At what point do we pull the plug?
I wonder if your kid is at the same school as my kid. My kid isn't necessarily struggling but it seems like they started out with some pretty esoteric and challenging stuff. At Back to School night the teacher even said they jumped into Set Theory (which she studied in college) because the normal stuff at the beginning of algebra (can't remember what it is) is pretty boring and these are exceptional kids who qualified for algebra so she wanted it to be fun/interesting/challenging from the get-go. My son came home talking about stuff I'd never heard of (aleph null anyone?) - said it gave him a headache and he wanted to tell me all about it so I could get a headache too. He was jazzed though. His teacher posts a ton of stuff on schoology - presentations, classwork, homework, and a video to watch to introduce the next topic. I am emphasizing the importance of staying on top of that.
All that said, the kids think it's a badge of honor to be in Algebra 1 in 7th grade, but in reality it's a high school class. I have heard that plenty of kids drop back to math 7h so if your kid is that stressed out, I'd definitely consider it. The transition to middle school is tough enough.
All that said, the kids think it's a badge of honor to be in Algebra 1 in 7th grade, but in reality it's a high school class. I have heard that plenty of kids drop back to math 7h so if your kid is that stressed out, I'd definitely consider it. The transition to middle school is tough enough.
Anonymous
08/30/2023 15:08
Subject: At what point do we pull the plug?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:This is utterly exhausting.
So, the expectation now is I need to privately enroll my child in a class BEFORE they take the class to be successful in the class?
I was pretty against Alg. 1 in 7th grade with my 6th grader, but this whole approach is so frustrating. It all mimics my kid's experience in AAP -- the teachers expect these kids to have learned whatever concepts that were being taught for the first time "before" so class is actually just a quick review and assessment. and if they haven't, it's up to the student (i.e. their parents) to fill in the gaps.
Your frustration is understandable. What you described isn't education.
Frankly (PP here), this is why I find AAP, as a whole, to be utter trash. It's been incredibly disappointing to see how much the "extension" is really just blowing through topics and running assessments quickly. Even the whole "mascot time" has been a joke. My child last year struggled in class and was buried in work and her teacher was not just useless, he went out of his way to make her feel like an idiot with those "this isn't hard" and "you're in AAP, you should be smart."
I spent thousands on private tutoring where she learned 5th and 6th grade math, she got a "perfect" SOL score and on paper is doing fine. But this isn't how it's supposed to work. She was literally failing absent my own intervention as a parent. And it just keeps going?
Because in AAP in FCPS, math instruction is basically a quick demo, a worksheet, and then assessment. Rinse, repeat.
Compared to my other general education child (who oddly has a stronger math grasp due to actually being taught math), there is zero tier 1 interventions, zero small group instruction, and zero support if your child doesn't automatically "get" the topic. It's just assess and move on.
And then the kids stuggle. Either in Alg. 1 honors or higher math or in their freshman classes where they are (again) retaking classes they already took.
It's all just so, so frustrating.
Honestly, maybe AAP wasn’t the right fit for your child.
+1. This is not the experience of most.
Anonymous
08/30/2023 15:05
Subject: At what point do we pull the plug?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:This is utterly exhausting.
So, the expectation now is I need to privately enroll my child in a class BEFORE they take the class to be successful in the class?
I was pretty against Alg. 1 in 7th grade with my 6th grader, but this whole approach is so frustrating. It all mimics my kid's experience in AAP -- the teachers expect these kids to have learned whatever concepts that were being taught for the first time "before" so class is actually just a quick review and assessment. and if they haven't, it's up to the student (i.e. their parents) to fill in the gaps.
Your frustration is understandable. What you described isn't education.
Frankly (PP here), this is why I find AAP, as a whole, to be utter trash. It's been incredibly disappointing to see how much the "extension" is really just blowing through topics and running assessments quickly. Even the whole "mascot time" has been a joke. My child last year struggled in class and was buried in work and her teacher was not just useless, he went out of his way to make her feel like an idiot with those "this isn't hard" and "you're in AAP, you should be smart."
I spent thousands on private tutoring where she learned 5th and 6th grade math, she got a "perfect" SOL score and on paper is doing fine. But this isn't how it's supposed to work. She was literally failing absent my own intervention as a parent. And it just keeps going?
Because in AAP in FCPS, math instruction is basically a quick demo, a worksheet, and then assessment. Rinse, repeat.
Compared to my other general education child (who oddly has a stronger math grasp due to actually being taught math), there is zero tier 1 interventions, zero small group instruction, and zero support if your child doesn't automatically "get" the topic. It's just assess and move on.
And then the kids stuggle. Either in Alg. 1 honors or higher math or in their freshman classes where they are (again) retaking classes they already took.
It's all just so, so frustrating.
Honestly, maybe AAP wasn’t the right fit for your child.
Anonymous
08/30/2023 14:59
Subject: At what point do we pull the plug?
Anonymous wrote:OP, "you" don't pull the plug. You can stop paying any time -- without all this drama. He's still enrolled. He's working a a degree. The University has not kicked-him out. It is HIS decision.
What conversation are you watching? She's talking about a 7th grader.
Anonymous
08/30/2023 14:58
Subject: At what point do we pull the plug?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:This is utterly exhausting.
So, the expectation now is I need to privately enroll my child in a class BEFORE they take the class to be successful in the class?
I was pretty against Alg. 1 in 7th grade with my 6th grader, but this whole approach is so frustrating. It all mimics my kid's experience in AAP -- the teachers expect these kids to have learned whatever concepts that were being taught for the first time "before" so class is actually just a quick review and assessment. and if they haven't, it's up to the student (i.e. their parents) to fill in the gaps.
This is so odd.
On the one hand, we hear that teachers are opposing parents' pushes to advance their children in math, saying that parents have that keeping-up-with the Joneses attitude and consider their children failures if they don't take Algebra in 7th.
On the other hand, we now hear that parents oppose teachers' placement recommendations because they are not well-founded and based on perception rather than deep and thorough assessment and proof of mastery.
So, which one is it?
And also, the solution is pretty clear, too: only allow kids in Algebra I that can show results in a solid prealgebra course and that can master multiple assessments. For instance, increase the IAAT threshold (91% is way too low), increase SOL thresholds (an Algebra kid should score a 600 or miss at most 1 questions on a 7th grade SOL); require mathematical writing samples, just to name some ideas that would address both problems. Parents would get a real idea of what it takes, and teachers would have something to point to when they reject parents' requests (and I think it would also recalibrate teachers' expectations). It would also help with the quality of the Algebra courses itself and avoid them being watered down further. Because for every kid that struggles like OPs there are 3 kids who sort-of follow along but aren't really prepared the way they should be and thus cause the class to be dragged down.
The above makes a lot of sense. While I don't believe that standardized assessments are a good way to select kids for a school like TJ, they absolutely can be helpful for determining appropriate levels of advancement if they're designed properly.
The trouble is, right now you have a catastrophic "parents' rights" movement - kind of reminiscent of "states' rights" - that wants to remove from power anyone willing to say no to them on ANYTHING. Their explicit expectation is that the taxpayer-funded public education system should cater to the whims of individuals but simultaneously refuses to provide the taxpayer funds necessary for appropriate differentiation.
The charitable interpretation of this position is "moronic". The less charitable one is "evil".
Anonymous
08/30/2023 14:56
Subject: At what point do we pull the plug?
OP, "you" don't pull the plug. You can stop paying any time -- without all this drama. He's still enrolled. He's working a a degree. The University has not kicked-him out. It is HIS decision.
Anonymous
08/30/2023 14:47
Subject: At what point do we pull the plug?
Anonymous wrote:This is utterly exhausting.
So, the expectation now is I need to privately enroll my child in a class BEFORE they take the class to be successful in the class?
I was pretty against Alg. 1 in 7th grade with my 6th grader, but this whole approach is so frustrating. It all mimics my kid's experience in AAP -- the teachers expect these kids to have learned whatever concepts that were being taught for the first time "before" so class is actually just a quick review and assessment. and if they haven't, it's up to the student (i.e. their parents) to fill in the gaps.
This is so odd.
On the one hand, we hear that teachers are opposing parents' pushes to advance their children in math, saying that parents have that keeping-up-with the Joneses attitude and consider their children failures if they don't take Algebra in 7th.
On the other hand, we now hear that parents oppose teachers' placement recommendations because they are not well-founded and based on perception rather than deep and thorough assessment and proof of mastery.
So, which one is it?
And also, the solution is pretty clear, too: only allow kids in Algebra I that can show results in a solid prealgebra course and that can master multiple assessments. For instance, increase the IAAT threshold (91% is way too low), increase SOL thresholds (an Algebra kid should score a 600 or miss at most 1 questions on a 7th grade SOL); require mathematical writing samples, just to name some ideas that would address both problems. Parents would get a real idea of what it takes, and teachers would have something to point to when they reject parents' requests (and I think it would also recalibrate teachers' expectations). It would also help with the quality of the Algebra courses itself and avoid them being watered down further. Because for every kid that struggles like OPs there are 3 kids who sort-of follow along but aren't really prepared the way they should be and thus cause the class to be dragged down.
Anonymous
08/30/2023 14:42
Subject: At what point do we pull the plug?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:This is utterly exhausting.
So, the expectation now is I need to privately enroll my child in a class BEFORE they take the class to be successful in the class?
I was pretty against Alg. 1 in 7th grade with my 6th grader, but this whole approach is so frustrating. It all mimics my kid's experience in AAP -- the teachers expect these kids to have learned whatever concepts that were being taught for the first time "before" so class is actually just a quick review and assessment. and if they haven't, it's up to the student (i.e. their parents) to fill in the gaps.
Your frustration is understandable. What you described isn't education.
Frankly (PP here), this is why I find AAP, as a whole, to be utter trash. It's been incredibly disappointing to see how much the "extension" is really just blowing through topics and running assessments quickly. Even the whole "mascot time" has been a joke. My child last year struggled in class and was buried in work and her teacher was not just useless, he went out of his way to make her feel like an idiot with those "this isn't hard" and "you're in AAP, you should be smart."
I spent thousands on private tutoring where she learned 5th and 6th grade math, she got a "perfect" SOL score and on paper is doing fine. But this isn't how it's supposed to work. She was literally failing absent my own intervention as a parent. And it just keeps going?
Because in AAP in FCPS, math instruction is basically a quick demo, a worksheet, and then assessment. Rinse, repeat.
Compared to my other general education child (who oddly has a stronger math grasp due to actually being taught math), there is zero tier 1 interventions, zero small group instruction, and zero support if your child doesn't automatically "get" the topic. It's just assess and move on.
And then the kids stuggle. Either in Alg. 1 honors or higher math or in their freshman classes where they are (again) retaking classes they already took.
It's all just so, so frustrating.
Anonymous
08/30/2023 14:31
Subject: At what point do we pull the plug?
Anonymous wrote:This is utterly exhausting.
So, the expectation now is I need to privately enroll my child in a class BEFORE they take the class to be successful in the class?
I was pretty against Alg. 1 in 7th grade with my 6th grader, but this whole approach is so frustrating. It all mimics my kid's experience in AAP -- the teachers expect these kids to have learned whatever concepts that were being taught for the first time "before" so class is actually just a quick review and assessment. and if they haven't, it's up to the student (i.e. their parents) to fill in the gaps.
Your frustration is understandable. What you described isn't education.
Anonymous
08/30/2023 14:28
Subject: At what point do we pull the plug?
This is utterly exhausting.
So, the expectation now is I need to privately enroll my child in a class BEFORE they take the class to be successful in the class?
I was pretty against Alg. 1 in 7th grade with my 6th grader, but this whole approach is so frustrating. It all mimics my kid's experience in AAP -- the teachers expect these kids to have learned whatever concepts that were being taught for the first time "before" so class is actually just a quick review and assessment. and if they haven't, it's up to the student (i.e. their parents) to fill in the gaps.
So, the expectation now is I need to privately enroll my child in a class BEFORE they take the class to be successful in the class?
I was pretty against Alg. 1 in 7th grade with my 6th grader, but this whole approach is so frustrating. It all mimics my kid's experience in AAP -- the teachers expect these kids to have learned whatever concepts that were being taught for the first time "before" so class is actually just a quick review and assessment. and if they haven't, it's up to the student (i.e. their parents) to fill in the gaps.
Anonymous
08/30/2023 14:20
Subject: Re:At what point do we pull the plug?
Agree with PP. I’m all for building grit in kids, but this is not the correct situation. Most of these kids are starting middle school for the first time which is already anxiety provoking. They don’t need the added intense stress of taking a high school level class unless they are a math prodigy. Which could you see regretting more? It seems like slugging thru Algebra (even if she gets A) with tons of stress will just lead to not feeling confident and liking math as much. That could have long term implications. Taking Algebra in 8th is more than fine.
Anonymous
08/30/2023 14:19
Subject: At what point do we pull the plug?
Give your kid the Khan Academy Math 8 /Prealgebra Course Challenge 30-question test.
If it isn't easy, thru need to catch up with home study, or drop back to prealgebra class. If it is easy, keep investigating into what's bugging your kid.
If it isn't easy, thru need to catch up with home study, or drop back to prealgebra class. If it is easy, keep investigating into what's bugging your kid.
Anonymous
08/30/2023 14:16
Subject: At what point do we pull the plug?
What were the exact qualifications?
If your child was placed based on "being good at math" but not a comprehensive pre-algebra test, then that means that they think your child is able to learn the material.. but it was never taught.
So your child might need to do extra work at home to fill it in.
This is a common problem when schools have kids jump from a lower track to higher track after testing, especially after a "summer slide", instead of accelerating smoothly from the beginning over several years.
But, it's only been 2 weeks. Not a lot of material yet.
What are the particular complaints?
Is it really from material or is it the teacher or the school or higher expectations for working at homework?
It's possible that your kid is ready for algebra, and ready for their other classes, but isn't ready to do all them at the same time, so they have to choose where to advance and where to fall back.
If your child was placed based on "being good at math" but not a comprehensive pre-algebra test, then that means that they think your child is able to learn the material.. but it was never taught.
So your child might need to do extra work at home to fill it in.
This is a common problem when schools have kids jump from a lower track to higher track after testing, especially after a "summer slide", instead of accelerating smoothly from the beginning over several years.
But, it's only been 2 weeks. Not a lot of material yet.
What are the particular complaints?
Is it really from material or is it the teacher or the school or higher expectations for working at homework?
It's possible that your kid is ready for algebra, and ready for their other classes, but isn't ready to do all them at the same time, so they have to choose where to advance and where to fall back.