I just have to say I love that OP’s DH called her out on this. I can’t imagine my DH even noticing something like this or caring about the morality of it.

Anonymous wrote:I do because they do. I'm objectively good looking and birds of a feather flock together. So far, whenever I befriend someone less attractive, it seems to bother the other mom and she seems insecure and jealous. I know it doesn't have to be that way, and I'll keep trying. But that's my true life experience Sunday Bummrr Summer Truth Bomb.

As an ugly woman, I’ve never been jealous of my pretty friends, but I do take issue with those who are too full of themselves or constantly want attention.

Anonymous wrote:You are actively excluding women like me from your group, but rather that you DON'T SEE US.

This. Middle age women (45+?) over a certain weight (size 12+) are just invisible.

I never thought this was a thing until this summer. A group of 3 moms, who all know me, sat down next to me at the pool and proceeded to have a 10 min conversation about buying a particular pair of shoes and never once acknowledged me. We were there for a kid activity, they asked if they could sit at my table. The shoes they were talking about were the EXACT shoes on my feet. One was asking if they thought they would hold up. My chiming in was to say “I’ve had these for 3 years”. It was like something from a sitcom. I couldn’t believe it was real.

Anonymous wrote:I tend to avoid pretty parents who are pretty in that particular manicured way that means they work hard at it. A combination of assuming they won’t want to talk to me and lingering middle school life lessons. If they go out of their way to talk to me, I’ll definitely still be friendly but I’m more likely to strike up a conversation with an un-made-up, slightly schlubby looking mom on the playground.

I love that you brought up middle school trauma. I have the same history, extending into HS. For me, I know I have an implicit bias against well groomed, good looking women in that I assume they won’t like me or be interested in being friends with me. And 98% of the time I’m right, but every once in awhile a pretty, fashionable woman will continue seeking me out, and I’m always a bit guarded and skeptical.

But yes it’s clear that pretty, looks-oriented women are *typically* only interested in being friends with women like them. And honest, they probably have more shallow interests in common, like discussing their purse brands and which Botox doctor they use.

Implicit or not, all the “popular” moms at my elementary school are fit and pretty. I’m normally a size 12/14. I lost 25 pounds a few years ago and the cool moms started inviting me places and then I gained the weight back and the invites stopped. I don’t know if it’s something they even realize they do - and I don’t care because it was enough to tell me they aren’t the kind of people I want to be friends with.

My friend group includes all sizes and shapes - and levels of fashionability. It’s a group of women who make me laugh and / or share my hobbies.

Anonymous wrote:I tend to avoid pretty parents who are pretty in that particular manicured way that means they work hard at it. A combination of assuming they won’t want to talk to me and lingering middle school life lessons. If they go out of their way to talk to me, I’ll definitely still be friendly but I’m more likely to strike up a conversation with an un-made-up, slightly schlubby looking mom on the playground.

100% this. I find people who are obsessed with looking perfect to be so boring!

I do because they do. I'm objectively good looking and birds of a feather flock together. So far, whenever I befriend someone less attractive, it seems to bother the other mom and she seems insecure and jealous. I know it doesn't have to be that way, and I'll keep trying. But that's my true life experience Sunday Bummrr Summer Truth Bomb.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, I don’t believe your DH said this. You sound shallow.

He absolutely did say this and I was offended that it seemed like he was saying I was shallow. Then he said everyone does this and consciously or subconsciously is drawn to more physically attractive people.

The conversation started because we went to a party and I saw a mom I have known for years. We have many friends in common but we were never friends. DH said I probably don’t like her because she is ugly. I thought Dh was shallow and offended he thought that way of me.

You're upset because you realize he is correct.

+1

Anonymous wrote:I tend to avoid pretty parents who are pretty in that particular manicured way that means they work hard at it. A combination of assuming they won’t want to talk to me and lingering middle school life lessons. If they go out of their way to talk to me, I’ll definitely still be friendly but I’m more likely to strike up a conversation with an un-made-up, slightly schlubby looking mom on the playground.

Forgot to add: my friends range from borderline underweight to overweight. I don’t think any of them are obese but it’s never come up in conversation and it’s not like I can tell someone’s BMI by looking at them. I feel like this is only tangentially related to how conventionally pretty they are.

I tend to avoid pretty parents who are pretty in that particular manicured way that means they work hard at it. A combination of assuming they won’t want to talk to me and lingering middle school life lessons. If they go out of their way to talk to me, I’ll definitely still be friendly but I’m more likely to strike up a conversation with an un-made-up, slightly schlubby looking mom on the playground.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sorry, correction: You are NOT actively excluding women like me from your group, you just DON'T SEE US.

That's the implicit bias that your husband is talking about.

I have to agree with this. I was somewhat friends with someone like this in my early 20s. She was nice and wasn't purposefully excluding people who weren't thin and pretty, I just don't think she noticed people who weren't and just didn't make the effort to get to know anyone who didn't fit in that mold. She wasn't overtly mean or shallow.

Perhaps. But there are other reasons too. Like it or not, there are certain circumstances that are usually involved with being overweight, and these don't correlate well with putting in the effort to maintain several friendships.

I am fat, and I have one fat friend from college. All my mom friends are thin. They would be prettier too if they were younger ( I had my first kid in my twenties so almost always the youngest mom in any group in my neighborhood).

Generally, you are fat for one of very few reasons: you either lack discipline or you are not well, or you have some very stressful and time consuming commitment that you don’t make time for yourself.

My fat friend works a million hours a week at a very stressful job. I probably have undiagnosed ADHD and mild ASD.

People who are disciplined, healthy and less stressed tend to put more effort in most areas of their lives than people who are not one of these. They tend to have more time and capacity to stay thin and fit etc. They tend to have more time and capacity to prioritize and maintain friendships.

I am an outlier because I come from a very social culture so even with my undiagnosed problems, friendships are a major priority.

I hang out with the uglies so that I can (try to) look better next to them

My kids are in sports.

There just aren’t a lot of fat parents.

In fact, I think my husband is the biggest guy out of all the dads. He definitely notices. I can’t imagine it’s any easier for the overweight moms.

Anonymous wrote:Sorry, correction: You are NOT actively excluding women like me from your group, you just DON'T SEE US.

That's the implicit bias that your husband is talking about.

I have to agree with this. I was somewhat friends with someone like this in my early 20s. She was nice and wasn't purposefully excluding people who weren't thin and pretty, I just don't think she noticed people who weren't and just didn't make the effort to get to know anyone who didn't fit in that mold. She wasn't overtly mean or shallow.

Anonymous wrote:I have one friend who is obese. All my other friends have normal bodies. A couple are very pretty. All my friends say I am always the prettiest and have all said so multiple times.

All my moms friends are slim though I am not sure they are all beautiful. My obese friend is an old friend from grad school. I love her and she is one of the few people I can really be myself with. She was not always this big and multiple health issues have brought about a large weight gain. I don’t think she cares at all that I am pretty and fit.

This is where I run into trouble. My overweight acquaintances and colleagues make little side remarks about my weight (not underweight, just slim). It makes me really effing uncomfortable. I would never comment on another woman’s body.