Re: strategies besides restraining… believe it or not (I had a hard time with this one!) it’s fine to let them punch pillows or stomp feet or scream. Sometimes their body HAS to move and make sounds, especially if they have ADHD. So give them space. If you live in a single family home and they scream, it’s fine. (It’s not fine in a hotel or on a cruise.) They need to learn that they can get thru bad feelings themselves. If they think they are such a danger that someone has to pin and hold them… then they don’t have a true sense of safety. If the kid always has to be restrained by an adult they will think to themselves “wow I am really dangerous” (which is scary) and what you want them to learn instead is “I feel angry right now… but I can be angry and still be safe” - ie the stomping feet punching pillows. As a parent, you ignore those things as much as you can and just say “I can tell you’re angry. The best thing I can do for you right now is wait until those feelings aren’t so big. Then we can talk or snuggle or do something together.” Hope that makes sense… I’m trying to channel our therapist who tells me this stuff over the years. It’s very very bad if a kid is scared of themselves. You have to get away from that.

I have an 8 year old son who has similar symptoms. We don’t do big trips but getting an Airbnb at Deep Creek or Massanutten or a quiet beach (Sandbridge) for 3-4 days works really well. Keep the home routine while you’re away as much as possible. I’d always dreamed of being a traveling family, so I get how it is hard to give that up. But I have learned to treasure our little trips.

Regarding her saying you’re hurting her—my son says similar things and I’ve had to accept that in his eyes he is telling the truth. When his adrenaline is pumping during an episode he is not really processing cause and effect in any logical way. For example, once I grabbed and held his wrist because he was beating the crap out of me with a shoe. He later told the therapist that I was grabbing at him so he had to fight me off with a shoe. He 100 percent believed this to be true. I could write a book about how understanding this has changed how I deal with him. Anyway, I’m so sorry you are going through this.

Anonymous wrote:We took a cruise with my then-undiagnosed ASD ADHD kid and it was a disaster. You have to radically rethink travel/outings. Only go places where your your child can succeed or be easily taken aside to a private place… and then when you’re trying something new that could be overwhelming (noisy, crowded, new stuff, up late, hard to sleep, different foods, ANY of these things) you have got to go slow, trying it in bite sized time chunks.
My kid has also tried to dial 911 and tattle on us. He is 13 now, he’s NOT a dangerous kid, we finally know how to cope as a family and we have changed expectations. You really need a radical rethink… not being able yo handle a cruise does not mean your child is violent. Also you need other safety strategies than restraining. That is not a long term solution to improve anything. There is a whole lot going on and you need a really good parent coach that can help you deal with a tough kid.

DP. Can you share what you do? We are in a similar situation with our 9 year old. DD has improved, but these behaviors do come up still.

Why are you traveling with a child whose issues are this exacerbated by travel?

All of you are very unkind. Have some empathy.
OP-I'm sorry for what you are going through.
I know it's hard but you it would be really helpful to everyone to think through all the different things that cause her stress when you travel and try your best to minimize them.

I disagree with people who say you shouldn't travel because it's not realistic to keep her sheltered all her childhood because she has difficulty with something.

When we choose a place to travel the number 1 question we ask ourselves is whether this is a place or itinerary that DD could handle and we are also prepared to lose fees or change plans at the last minute if DD is stressed. We prereserved a lot things this summer (the destination was one that required you to do that) and had to bail on a couple of them due to DD. It was disappointing but that kept DD from having a full blown meltdown and we had an enjoyable time anyway because we had realistic expectations.

It will get better OP.

Anonymous wrote:Referring to a 9 year old with mental health issues as a "pathological liar" just is not helpful. It in no way describes or accounts for the context of lying or dramatic behavior. She's not lying in order to have fun.

I think you need family therapy, both because your viewpoint on this situation is so strange -- taking a child with extreme problems on a cruise and expecting her to keep it together - and your expectations of her seem so wildly off. Your child is not going to magically get it together and be "normal." When she does this, it's not because she wants to ruin your life. She's in pain.

+1

I hope OP is actually a troll.

Referring to a 9 year old with mental health issues as a "pathological liar" just is not helpful. It in no way describes or accounts for the context of lying or dramatic behavior. She's not lying in order to have fun.

I think you need family therapy, both because your viewpoint on this situation is so strange -- taking a child with extreme problems on a cruise and expecting her to keep it together - and your expectations of her seem so wildly off. Your child is not going to magically get it together and be "normal." When she does this, it's not because she wants to ruin your life. She's in pain.

Cruise is sensory overload

We took a cruise with my then-undiagnosed ASD ADHD kid and it was a disaster. You have to radically rethink travel/outings. Only go places where your your child can succeed or be easily taken aside to a private place… and then when you’re trying something new that could be overwhelming (noisy, crowded, new stuff, up late, hard to sleep, different foods, ANY of these things) you have got to go slow, trying it in bite sized time chunks.
My kid has also tried to dial 911 and tattle on us. He is 13 now, he’s NOT a dangerous kid, we finally know how to cope as a family and we have changed expectations. You really need a radical rethink… not being able yo handle a cruise does not mean your child is violent. Also you need other safety strategies than restraining. That is not a long term solution to improve anything. There is a whole lot going on and you need a really good parent coach that can help you deal with a tough kid.

One parent needs to fly home with her now.

Travel should be driving vacations just several hours away. Stay in a house or cottage.

Do other trips one parent/and your other kids.

Two thoughts-Did you change time zones? If sleep is disrupted it affects even normal people's moods. Also sea sickness-maybe she has never been on a cruise before, her body knows something is off and she has flipped her lid-too much stress, she can't communicate, her rational mind is offline. If the cruise lands somewhere, I would get off and take alternate transportation. Maybe stay in one spot for a few days for her to acclimate. My DD has ASD and ADHD and gets violent sometimes. I totally understand the stress it puts you under and it sets off your own fight or flight hormones. It's a vicious circle having a child whose behavior is that distressing. I wonder if her counselor or doctor could write a note in case you really need to prove to someone she has issues.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sounds like Bpd.

What? She is way too young.

To me it sounds like she might have severe ADHD and/or ASD. Has she had a neuropsychological exam?

These outburst are very common for kids who are ND and realize there is something "wrong" with them but don't know what and cannot regulate emotionally.

I think you should a0 get her tested ASAP and b) either talk to her psychiatrist about a mood stabilizer like Lamictal or Abilify.

Another option is a PHP for a week or two where they will see her every day and be able to evaluate and try out different meds.

GL.

We had a similar situation with my DD, although not as intense. Much better place now that we have a DX and the right meds.

She's not to young to have it but the DSM will not diagnose at that age but its not appropriate to diagnose a strangers kid off the internet.

No psychiatrist worth their salt would DX a 9y0 with Borderline Personality Disorder.

And I didn't DX her kid, I wrote what it sounded like to me and gave her some good advice, which I stand by. Kid needs to be tested and medicated.

OP - first I'm so sorry you are going through this. We have a child who has engaged in terrifying, violent and, sad to say, embarrassing public behavior over the years. It's horrible.

You need to go home now. You need a neuropsych evaluation now.

My child has a ADHD diagnosis since age 3, medicated since age 4. Age 9 is NOT too early to get this stuff under diagnosis or medication. If we'd medicate an adult or a 16 year old, why would we withhold that for a 9 year old? I also think this sounds more severe than ADHD (even with typical comorbidities), but I obviously can't diagnose on the internet.

Is it a sudden change in behavior for a kid that has otherwise been a bit atypical but otherwise under control? Consider PANDAS. Our DS was a pretty run of the mill ADHD kid from age 3 (handsy, excessively hyper etc), but at age 6 turned violent and rage filled - which was wholly uncharacteristic for him. It was PANDAS. That has a different treatment plan than regular ADHD. His PANDAS passed fairly quickly with medication (4 months back to baseline).

I don’t have any solutions for but I wanted to say I’m so sorry you and your family are going through this.

My DS, 16, has behavioral issues, although not as severe, and we stopped flying after a disastrous flight back from Chicago. Additionally, we stopped staying in hotels bc he can be really loud.

Now, this is totally unfair to my other child. So my DH and I make a big effort each year to take him away somewhere relatively local (each of us) to get the pampering he deserves.

I give you lots of empathy- I know you’re situation if rough.

Anonymous wrote:I would fly her back with one parent now. Fwiw I’m sorry.

NP and 100% this.