Anonymous wrote:Nobody "needs" to be in a nursing home, as many posters say. Your parents made their choice. Why can you not just leave them to it? As long as they are not driving and are not harming others, why can't they just live the way they are in peace? Might they both fall and die over the course of 5 days because neither can get up? Possibly. Might they screw up their medications and die of heart failure? Yes. If that's they way they choose to go, so what? Seriously. What is that worse than eating up resources dying a slow, useless, painful death in a nursing home? This is what my mother is doing, because my older sisters wouldn't drop the issue until my parents finally relented. My father died two years later, and 18 of those months was in a delirium in a hospital bed. Now, my mother lives in memory care and says she wishes she were dead every day. They would have been better off falling down the stairs going out the way they wished. The nursing care industry is a racket.

I get what you’re saying. I would not want to die in a state run nursing home either, but wouldn’t it be inhumane to leave them to starve in their house alone, him not being able to even go to the bathroom without help, and her with dementia and unable to care for herself? I think a quick passing from a heart attack or sudden fall sounds merciful but that is different from starving to death slowly.

we will try to insist that their doctor order hospice care for my dad. We are going to ask the doc to hospitalize both of them. So far social services has not called despite the doctor saying they should be in touch in 24 hours, so we will start calling other agencies.

I am getting ready to go down to relieve my brother so will probably not have time to reply but I really appreciate everyone’s input. This sucks and I sure as heck do not want to do this to my own kids.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Thank you all for your advice and kind words. Believe it or not brother and I do not even know the names of agencies to call because this all hit us two days ago and yesterday was the first day brother saw the situation in person. Even this simple tip to call aging and disability helps because we are so stunned. I also didn’t know there are two types of Medicaid.

We had been estranged due to their lifestyle choices that have made their condition worse financially than it needs to be. We didn’t know how bad things have gotten, but Dad needs help even getting to the bathroom. My brother has a hard time by himself moving dad around the house. He needs to find a wheelchair. No clue what his medical issue is but Brother took him to get blood work done yesterday against his will. Mom cannot manage on her own without Dad because of Alzheimer’s.

I hate to say this but neither brother and I want to support them financially nor can we really afford to do it. It’s hard to explain but there is some bad history between us due to their choices, but they now seem so helpless and frail that we feel really awful.

NP. You absolutely do not need to support them financially, nor should you. You shouldn’t have removed your dad from hospital then state would have placed him. The less you do right now the better, because the state has to intervene. I’m sorry you’re going through this.

This is OP. Dad was never in the hospital. Neighbors called parademics for him when he had fallen in front yard and could not get back in the house. This was before we knew they were in awful shape because we are not in Florida. But when the paramedics arrived my dad refused to go to the hospital.

Anonymous wrote:Nobody "needs" to be in a nursing home, as many posters say. Your parents made their choice. Why can you not just leave them to it? As long as they are not driving and are not harming others, why can't they just live the way they are in peace? Might they both fall and die over the course of 5 days because neither can get up? Possibly. Might they screw up their medications and die of heart failure? Yes. If that's they way they choose to go, so what? Seriously. What is that worse than eating up resources dying a slow, useless, painful death in a nursing home? This is what my mother is doing, because my older sisters wouldn't drop the issue until my parents finally relented. My father died two years later, and 18 of those months was in a delirium in a hospital bed. Now, my mother lives in memory care and says she wishes she were dead every day. They would have been better off falling down the stairs going out the way they wished. The nursing care industry is a racket.

+1

A very good option. Take this in, OP. Just let them be.

Anonymous wrote:Thank you all for your advice and kind words. Believe it or not brother and I do not even know the names of agencies to call because this all hit us two days ago and yesterday was the first day brother saw the situation in person. Even this simple tip to call aging and disability helps because we are so stunned. I also didn’t know there are two types of Medicaid.

We had been estranged due to their lifestyle choices that have made their condition worse financially than it needs to be. We didn’t know how bad things have gotten, but Dad needs help even getting to the bathroom. My brother has a hard time by himself moving dad around the house. He needs to find a wheelchair. No clue what his medical issue is but Brother took him to get blood work done yesterday against his will. Mom cannot manage on her own without Dad because of Alzheimer’s.

I hate to say this but neither brother and I want to support them financially nor can we really afford to do it. It’s hard to explain but there is some bad history between us due to their choices, but they now seem so helpless and frail that we feel really awful.

NP. You absolutely do not need to support them financially, nor should you. You shouldn’t have removed your dad from hospital then state would have placed him. The less you do right now the better, because the state has to intervene. I’m sorry you’re going through this.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Nobody "needs" to be in a nursing home, as many posters say. Your parents made their choice. Why can you not just leave them to it? As long as they are not driving and are not harming others, why can't they just live the way they are in peace? Might they both fall and die over the course of 5 days because neither can get up? Possibly. Might they screw up their medications and die of heart failure? Yes. If that's they way they choose to go, so what? Seriously. What is that worse than eating up resources dying a slow, useless, painful death in a nursing home? This is what my mother is doing, because my older sisters wouldn't drop the issue until my parents finally relented. My father died two years later, and 18 of those months was in a delirium in a hospital bed. Now, my mother lives in memory care and says she wishes she were dead every day. They would have been better off falling down the stairs going out the way they wished. The nursing care industry is a racket.

I hate to put it this bluntly but this. I’d rather die at home with and accident or something than a nursing home after watching my mil long, slow and miserable death.

100% agree. Too much emphasis on "safety" and not enough on what the quality is of that "safer" life.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Nobody "needs" to be in a nursing home, as many posters say. Your parents made their choice. Why can you not just leave them to it? As long as they are not driving and are not harming others, why can't they just live the way they are in peace? Might they both fall and die over the course of 5 days because neither can get up? Possibly. Might they screw up their medications and die of heart failure? Yes. If that's they way they choose to go, so what? Seriously. What is that worse than eating up resources dying a slow, useless, painful death in a nursing home? This is what my mother is doing, because my older sisters wouldn't drop the issue until my parents finally relented. My father died two years later, and 18 of those months was in a delirium in a hospital bed. Now, my mother lives in memory care and says she wishes she were dead every day. They would have been better off falling down the stairs going out the way they wished. The nursing care industry is a racket.

You can't stop them from driving. My mother was told not to drive after her stroke, did it anyway, and totaled the car within 5 minutes of getting in it. Went right through a red light.

I think you should take your mother out of memory care so she can go home, PP. What could go wrong?

Take the keys.

Anonymous wrote:Nobody "needs" to be in a nursing home, as many posters say. Your parents made their choice. Why can you not just leave them to it? As long as they are not driving and are not harming others, why can't they just live the way they are in peace? Might they both fall and die over the course of 5 days because neither can get up? Possibly. Might they screw up their medications and die of heart failure? Yes. If that's they way they choose to go, so what? Seriously. What is that worse than eating up resources dying a slow, useless, painful death in a nursing home? This is what my mother is doing, because my older sisters wouldn't drop the issue until my parents finally relented. My father died two years later, and 18 of those months was in a delirium in a hospital bed. Now, my mother lives in memory care and says she wishes she were dead every day. They would have been better off falling down the stairs going out the way they wished. The nursing care industry is a racket.

I hate to put it this bluntly but this. I’d rather die at home with and accident or something than a nursing home after watching my mil long, slow and miserable death.

Anonymous wrote:Nobody "needs" to be in a nursing home, as many posters say. Your parents made their choice. Why can you not just leave them to it? As long as they are not driving and are not harming others, why can't they just live the way they are in peace? Might they both fall and die over the course of 5 days because neither can get up? Possibly. Might they screw up their medications and die of heart failure? Yes. If that's they way they choose to go, so what? Seriously. What is that worse than eating up resources dying a slow, useless, painful death in a nursing home? This is what my mother is doing, because my older sisters wouldn't drop the issue until my parents finally relented. My father died two years later, and 18 of those months was in a delirium in a hospital bed. Now, my mother lives in memory care and says she wishes she were dead every day. They would have been better off falling down the stairs going out the way they wished. The nursing care industry is a racket.

You can't stop them from driving. My mother was told not to drive after her stroke, did it anyway, and totaled the car within 5 minutes of getting in it. Went right through a red light.

I think you should take your mother out of memory care so she can go home, PP. What could go wrong?

Another resource is the Agency on Aging. There are several different ones in FL based on your specific location. They can help identify resources, help explain what needs to happen for your parents to get on Medicaid, and answer other questions.
If you Google Agency on Aging FL the different ones should pop up.
Good luck.

Nobody "needs" to be in a nursing home, as many posters say. Your parents made their choice. Why can you not just leave them to it? As long as they are not driving and are not harming others, why can't they just live the way they are in peace? Might they both fall and die over the course of 5 days because neither can get up? Possibly. Might they screw up their medications and die of heart failure? Yes. If that's they way they choose to go, so what? Seriously. What is that worse than eating up resources dying a slow, useless, painful death in a nursing home? This is what my mother is doing, because my older sisters wouldn't drop the issue until my parents finally relented. My father died two years later, and 18 of those months was in a delirium in a hospital bed. Now, my mother lives in memory care and says she wishes she were dead every day. They would have been better off falling down the stairs going out the way they wished. The nursing care industry is a racket.

Other posters are right that your parents need to be in a nursing home with Medicaid beds first before they qualify for long-term care Medicaid. My MIL is in a nursing home on Medicaid and the process of qualifying her was not as hard as I might have thought.

My MIL had a crisis and ended up in a nursing home by way of a hospitalization. She was discharged to rehab at a nursing home and never left. I have heard that a hospitalization is the "easiest" way to get into a nursing home, but I have no idea what the process is like if you need to get your parents into nursing home care another way.

Every state has eligibility requirements for income and assets. My MIL is in VA and I think the asset limit was something like $2k. She had about $25k to her name at the time and did not own a house. Her kids set up a funeral trust withabout $15k of it, which is an allowable way to spend down assets, and then used the rest to pay full price for the nursing home until she was below the asset limit. So essentially, there are some things you can do to protect some of your parents' assets, but you mostly "spend down" by paying for a nursing home with your parents' money until they have very little money.

I'm not sure how the asset limits work when your parents are married, and things can get complicated when one parent needs nursing home care and the other does not. Then, I believe the other spouse is allowed to keep their house and some amount of assets, but this likely varied by state and sounds like hire-a-lawyer territory. My MIL's case was pretty simple since she was widowed and had very little to begin with, so we chose to not hire a lawyer to help. There were not assets there to protect.

Best of luck OP. This is hard.

You might want to find an elder care specialist and pay for a limited consultation to get an objective view of the options. There may be state and/or local assistance that you can tap into - my inlaws have made it through a significant decline and major medical crises largely via state-funded home care aides who come for a few hours a day. It won't last forever but for now it works.

Another option as a PP said is an ER trip - it sounds like you don't fully know what has precipitated this major decline in your father's health. Take him in, have him assessed, and then ask to talk to a social worker about options. They can help you navigate some of this.

Anonymous wrote:Thank you all for your advice and kind words. Believe it or not brother and I do not even know the names of agencies to call because this all hit us two days ago and yesterday was the first day brother saw the situation in person. Even this simple tip to call aging and disability helps because we are so stunned. I also didn’t know there are two types of Medicaid.

We had been estranged due to their lifestyle choices that have made their condition worse financially than it needs to be. We didn’t know how bad things have gotten, but Dad needs help even getting to the bathroom. My brother has a hard time by himself moving dad around the house. He needs to find a wheelchair. No clue what his medical issue is but Brother took him to get blood work done yesterday against his will. Mom cannot manage on her own without Dad because of Alzheimer’s.

I hate to say this but neither brother and I want to support them financially nor can we really afford to do it. It’s hard to explain but there is some bad history between us due to their choices, but they now seem so helpless and frail that we feel really awful.

It's often complicated. They are fortunate that you and your brother are willing to rally here.

Look up senior services in the county where your parents live. Ideally their county provides senior services and have staff with whom you can speak. Sometimes it is called Department of Aging, Agency on Aging, Older Adult Services Division, etc. Start there as well as look at whatever nonprofits exist locally. Also, sometimes it is good to check out the nonprofits based in the state capital and ask for referrals to the county where your parents reside.

IDK anything about this outfit - https://www.millcityseniorliving.com/the-activities-of-daily-living-adl-checklist/ - but this explanation on ADLs (Activities of Daily Living) is pretty good and you and your brother may find it helpful to use this as a guide when talking with professionals on assessing next steps with your parents. Sometimes knowing the terms of art helps provide focus and urgency to the situation.

Good luck!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m a caregiver who recently cared for an elderly lady until she passed. Her family applied for Medicaid when I started working for her in September and it was finally approved the following May/June. I don’t know if they have an expedited process for people who urgently need to go into a facility - the lady I worked for was being cared for in the home by her eldest daughter who is a retired RN and with respite care from folks like me.

Every state does it differently but here you have to be in a nursing home bed prior to approval and you go Medicaid pending.

This. Perhaps she remained at home because they were spending down her assets for her to get close to qualifying and wanted to care for her at home as long as possible.

But yes, needs to be in the nursing home while applying for Medicaid.

Also, Medicare paid for visiting nurse and PT at the home. It will buy you some time and get some eyeballs on your parents.