IMO, if a kid accepts a lottery spot, that should mean they aren’t able to apply for any other lottery programs. So families should pick what’s really important for that kid — if it’s ATS, great. But then no applying for HB for middle school.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m imagining something where everyone learns Latin, plays an instrument, and sings in the chorus.

Though honestly just calling it “ATS” would probably get enough parents to sign up that the boundaries issue would be solved!

HB2 for middle school would also solve the problem

So you want to guarantee kids in the ATS program at WMS spots in band, orchestra and chorus? How does that work? What if there are not enough spots for the kids in the neighborhood WMS seats?

And please explain how the ATS MS classes would be different from the regular WMS classes? This is where we get into the issue of ATS not really having a pedagogy.

ATS does have a pedagogy. It’s not obvious to people like you but it makes a huge difference learning wise. ATS exclusively uses direct instruction. Most other Arlington schools use inquiry based learning or a combination of inquiry based learning and direct instruction. See this article on direct instruction in math:

https://www.city-journal.org/article/californias-math-framework-is-flawed

It’s sad. The biggest problem with California’s math standards is not that it’s “woke” but that it pushes inquiry based learning. But it’s critics, like you PP, don’t understand what a significant difference the style of instruction makes. So they focus on how “woke” California’s math standards are and you here claim that ATS doesn’t really have a pedagogy.

Not PP here. And I don’t dispute that there are some true believers/pedagogical families out there. But, as has been pointed out, that’s not who you have populating ATS. As evidenced by the HB numbers. It’s these people who feel like winning a lottery in APS actually gets them something “better” educationally for their child. They somehow believe that by “winning” they are avoiding the parents who can’t manage to fill out APS dumb lottery form—which, by the way, is idiot proof. Most N Arlington schools are filled with too involved parents, see all the complaints on this forum about the over advocating of N Arlington PTAs. So it’s nonsense in my view to offer these programs which arent actually serving particular students needs but rather filling irrational parents sense of superiority.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m imagining something where everyone learns Latin, plays an instrument, and sings in the chorus.

Though honestly just calling it “ATS” would probably get enough parents to sign up that the boundaries issue would be solved!

HB2 for middle school would also solve the problem

So you want to guarantee kids in the ATS program at WMS spots in band, orchestra and chorus? How does that work? What if there are not enough spots for the kids in the neighborhood WMS seats?

And please explain how the ATS MS classes would be different from the regular WMS classes? This is where we get into the issue of ATS not really having a pedagogy.

ATS does have a pedagogy. It’s not obvious to people like you but it makes a huge difference learning wise. ATS exclusively uses direct instruction. Most other Arlington schools use inquiry based learning or a combination of inquiry based learning and direct instruction. See this article on direct instruction in math:

https://www.city-journal.org/article/californias-math-framework-is-flawed

It’s sad. The biggest problem with California’s math standards is not that it’s “woke” but that it pushes inquiry based learning. But it’s critics, like you PP, don’t understand what a significant difference the style of instruction makes. So they focus on how “woke” California’s math standards are and you here claim that ATS doesn’t really have a pedagogy.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Seriously, though. If they started an ATS for middle school, they’d have a long waitlist of kids willing to schlep to Williamsburg for a program-within-a-school like Immersion and Montessori are.

Don't you realize the typical ATS family is drawn to HBW for ms?

Not sure what you are talking about, given that the majority of ATS students don’t go on to HBW.

Only because of the HB lottery system.
My point is, the ATS family doesn't seem to be seeking a continuation of ATS into middle school if they are putting in for an HB type program. How many ATS 5th graders try for the HB lottery? That's the question to ask.

We have this information! ATS has more applicants for HB Woodlawn than any other school. https://www.apsva.us/school-transfer-data/

https://www.apsva.us/wp-content/uploads/sites/57/2023/07/U-MEM_281_Membership-Summary-All.pdf

72 applicants, 98 5th graders

Seriously these programs are such farces.

Totally agree. I think the engaged parent thing is such a crock too, particularly at the N Arlington schools where you are talking about a baseline of Type A, probably lawyer, totally over involved in kids education. That’s the bottom rung.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Seriously, though. If they started an ATS for middle school, they’d have a long waitlist of kids willing to schlep to Williamsburg for a program-within-a-school like Immersion and Montessori are.

Don't you realize the typical ATS family is drawn to HBW for ms?

Not sure what you are talking about, given that the majority of ATS students don’t go on to HBW.

Only because of the HB lottery system.
My point is, the ATS family doesn't seem to be seeking a continuation of ATS into middle school if they are putting in for an HB type program. How many ATS 5th graders try for the HB lottery? That's the question to ask.

We have this information! ATS has more applicants for HB Woodlawn than any other school. https://www.apsva.us/school-transfer-data/

https://www.apsva.us/wp-content/uploads/sites/57/2023/07/U-MEM_281_Membership-Summary-All.pdf

72 applicants, 98 5th graders

Seriously these programs are such farces.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Seriously, though. If they started an ATS for middle school, they’d have a long waitlist of kids willing to schlep to Williamsburg for a program-within-a-school like Immersion and Montessori are.

Don't you realize the typical ATS family is drawn to HBW for ms?

Not sure what you are talking about, given that the majority of ATS students don’t go on to HBW.

Only because of the HB lottery system.
My point is, the ATS family doesn't seem to be seeking a continuation of ATS into middle school if they are putting in for an HB type program. How many ATS 5th graders try for the HB lottery? That's the question to ask.

We have this information! ATS has more applicants for HB Woodlawn than any other school. https://www.apsva.us/school-transfer-data/

https://www.apsva.us/wp-content/uploads/sites/57/2023/07/U-MEM_281_Membership-Summary-All.pdf

72 applicants, 98 5th graders

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Seriously, though. If they started an ATS for middle school, they’d have a long waitlist of kids willing to schlep to Williamsburg for a program-within-a-school like Immersion and Montessori are.

Don't you realize the typical ATS family is drawn to HBW for ms?

Not sure what you are talking about, given that the majority of ATS students don’t go on to HBW.

Only because of the HB lottery system.
My point is, the ATS family doesn't seem to be seeking a continuation of ATS into middle school if they are putting in for an HB type program. How many ATS 5th graders try for the HB lottery? That's the question to ask.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Seriously, though. If they started an ATS for middle school, they’d have a long waitlist of kids willing to schlep to Williamsburg for a program-within-a-school like Immersion and Montessori are.

Don't you realize the typical ATS family is drawn to HBW for ms?

Not sure what you are talking about, given that the majority of ATS students don’t go on to HBW.

Right because there are only so many slots. But a lot apply.

Anonymous wrote:Could the county just offer transfers to Williamsburg? Or bus transportation only for kids at overcrowded middle schools?

They already do offer transfers to WMS and any other under enrolled schools. Did you not know this?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Could the county just offer transfers to Williamsburg? Or bus transportation only for kids at overcrowded middle schools?

They already do offer transfers to Williamsburg but they don’t offer transportation.

Can anyone transfer or just certain planning units?

Anonymous wrote:Could the county just offer transfers to Williamsburg? Or bus transportation only for kids at overcrowded middle schools?

They already do offer transfers to Williamsburg but they don’t offer transportation.

Anonymous wrote:Interesting. What does that look like? I’m mostly loathe to support more option programs but I’m curious what the curriculum would look like.

As an ATS parent I would envision a school where everyone is forced to play an instrument, learn a second language, perform in a play, has a dress code and is strict discipline wise. Also low technology.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Seriously, though. If they started an ATS for middle school, they’d have a long waitlist of kids willing to schlep to Williamsburg for a program-within-a-school like Immersion and Montessori are.

Don't you realize the typical ATS family is drawn to HBW for ms?

OP here - so open another HB! We are almost back to the point of having an abundance of seats like back when the options first started, so let’s get creative again and give more people what they want rather than just rearrange deck chairs.

There is no abundance of seats; Gunston is overcrowded.

South Arl Families already make up the bulk of kids at ATS. Williamsburg is right around the corner. They’d go on there and reduce future overcrowding at gunston.

that true?

Yes. See the other thread on ATS v. Cardinal.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Seriously, though. If they started an ATS for middle school, they’d have a long waitlist of kids willing to schlep to Williamsburg for a program-within-a-school like Immersion and Montessori are.

Don't you realize the typical ATS family is drawn to HBW for ms?

Not sure what you are talking about, given that the majority of ATS students don’t go on to HBW.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Seriously, though. If they started an ATS for middle school, they’d have a long waitlist of kids willing to schlep to Williamsburg for a program-within-a-school like Immersion and Montessori are.

Don't you realize the typical ATS family is drawn to HBW for ms?

OP here - so open another HB! We are almost back to the point of having an abundance of seats like back when the options first started, so let’s get creative again and give more people what they want rather than just rearrange deck chairs.

There is no abundance of seats; Gunston is overcrowded.

South Arl Families already make up the bulk of kids at ATS. Williamsburg is right around the corner. They’d go on there and reduce future overcrowding at gunston.

that true?

8 from Jamestown.

Barcroft 44

Discount Barrett, McKinely, Ashlawn, and Glebe because of geographic bias (those zones have some homes closer to old HTS site then zoned school)

https://www.apsva.us/wp-content/uploads/sites/57/2023/04/d-Map_Elementary_2022_23.pdf

https://www.apsva.us/wp-content/uploads/2020/07/2019-2020_APS-Transfer-Report-All-Parts.pdf

This probably includes kids coming in through VPI. The Barcroft zone has a lot of kids who are eligible through that pathway. Barcroft only gets like 2 K spots (outside of VPI) in the lottery. Jamestown has no VPI eligible students, so that probably accounts to some degree for the discrepancy.