Anonymous
07/13/2023 17:40
Subject: Elementary schools falling apart?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:It's almost like a hugely disruptive global pandemic is continuing to have disruptive effects...
It’s almost as though my kid didn’t have those issues at her private school this past year.
But sure. Continue to pretend it’s like that everywhere.
It's almost like schools that can choose whom to admit and whom to kick out have fewer disruptive students than public schools that are required to accept everyone.
When I was a kid, they disciplined disruptive kids and separated out kids who are unable to sit quietly to learn. Consequently I actually learned something from real hard copy textbooks and teachers actually taught grammar and we read high quality works.
I feel sorry for sped students who are unable to sit quietly to learn and end up wandering around the classroom, and then often meltdown by the end of the day. How is this good for the sped student? The class atmosphere is inappropriate for them and it is difficult for neurotypical students to learn in this environment.
Suspensions were a serious matter and too many could lead to being expelled. Consequently, the well behaved students were rewarded for their good behavior and the disruptive students faced consequences.
Exactly. Public schools can do quite a bit, up to and including expulsions. They just choose not to.
Public schools cannot expel elementary schoolers, or at least not without a massive struggle. Nor do we want them to be able to expel elementary schoolers because that's terrible for society.
And meanwhile, those 1 or 2 difficult children ruin the educational and social experiences of 24 other kids. And are causing teachers to quit en masse because they can't do anything about it.
Trying to normalize SPED kids into regular classrooms has been a terrible mistake.They need to be separated and put into environments that can handle their needs. Allowing teachers to teach classes full of reasonably well-behaved children should not be some kind of issue. If a child is ruining everything for everyone else, they need to be removed. This should not be an issue.
Anonymous
07/13/2023 17:16
Subject: Elementary schools falling apart?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:It's almost like a hugely disruptive global pandemic is continuing to have disruptive effects...
This stuff was happening before the pandemic. Every year in elementary, my kids have had 1-2 disruptive kids in their class that demand disproportionate amounts of teacher attention. Maybe coincidence, but the kids are always the children of single mothers, and I've noticed quite a few of them move to different schools after a year or two.
But aren’t they also the kids of single dads?
Hmmm…
No. Unfortunately, the dads are often absent.
Absent fathers are still fathers. Most of the children of single mothers are also the children of single fathers.
Exactly. Why does PP automatically choose to blame single mothers instead of deadbeat dads?
Anonymous
07/13/2023 17:15
Subject: Re:Elementary schools falling apart?
Anonymous wrote:There are two large contributing factors.
First, in the past SPED students were separated from genpop. While it was terrible for the SPED students, it was good for the gen pop. We have now swung too far in the other direction. We have now incorporated the SPED students in the gen pop. While that is good for most of the SPED students, there are some SPED students who are too far outside the social norms that teachers can handle and we are requiring the teachers to keep them there. I have a child who was in a class with one of these way too difficult SPED children and at least every other day, the students had to be evacuated from the room when the child became violent and the teacher was not allowed to discipline or restrict the child. The other 22 children had to them go and sit in the hallway while a SPED teacher was brought from another assignment to come and deal with the child. The other 22 children lost valuable learning time repeatedly for this one child. We need to be able to find a middle ground. Incorporate the SPED students into the gen pop, but when some children because a danger to the teacher and other students, they should be removed from the general classroom and and alternative learning plan needs to be developed for that child. This bending over backwards to accommodate is not at all fair to the larger population of students who have to deal with these children. Now the policies towards SPED children are often dictated at the state level and not at the county/school district level. This needs to be addressed by the state school superintendent, but it is not political advantageous to do so.
Second, entitled parents have become worse. I know several MCPS teachers who have said that they have a lot of problems maintaining discipline in classrooms because the attitude of the school district is now to cave to whiny entitled parents. Children are children. Teachers try to discipline them and the child complains at home. In the past, many parents would try to then deal with the situation at home, teach their children manners, teach them how to cope and move on. Now, many of those entitled parents demand meetings with the teacher and/or administration and complain about how their little snowflake was treated in class. And the administration is caving to them and changing the way that teachers deal with such children and restricting teachers from maintaining discipline in class. My friends tell me the number of difficult parents has been on a steady rise for some time now and there is no evidence of it declining.
So, MD state needs to address the SPED problem and there needs to be a way to curb the overentitled parents for the situation to change.
+1
Both these are the biggest issues and teachers’ live won’t get better until they are both dealt with.
Anonymous
07/13/2023 17:09
Subject: Elementary schools falling apart?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:It's almost like a hugely disruptive global pandemic is continuing to have disruptive effects...
This stuff was happening before the pandemic. Every year in elementary, my kids have had 1-2 disruptive kids in their class that demand disproportionate amounts of teacher attention. Maybe coincidence, but the kids are always the children of single mothers, and I've noticed quite a few of them move to different schools after a year or two.
But aren’t they also the kids of single dads?
Hmmm…
No. Unfortunately, the dads are often absent.
Absent fathers are still fathers. Most of the children of single mothers are also the children of single fathers.
Anonymous
07/13/2023 17:02
Subject: Elementary schools falling apart?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:It's almost like a hugely disruptive global pandemic is continuing to have disruptive effects...
This stuff was happening before the pandemic. Every year in elementary, my kids have had 1-2 disruptive kids in their class that demand disproportionate amounts of teacher attention. Maybe coincidence, but the kids are always the children of single mothers, and I've noticed quite a few of them move to different schools after a year or two.
But aren’t they also the kids of single dads?
Hmmm…
No. Unfortunately, the dads are often absent.
It’s the sexiest labeling that I am pointing out.
Anonymous
07/13/2023 16:37
Subject: Elementary schools falling apart?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:It's almost like a hugely disruptive global pandemic is continuing to have disruptive effects...
This stuff was happening before the pandemic. Every year in elementary, my kids have had 1-2 disruptive kids in their class that demand disproportionate amounts of teacher attention. Maybe coincidence, but the kids are always the children of single mothers, and I've noticed quite a few of them move to different schools after a year or two.
But aren’t they also the kids of single dads?
Hmmm…
No. Unfortunately, the dads are often absent.
Anonymous
07/13/2023 16:13
Subject: Re:Elementary schools falling apart?
Anonymous wrote:There are two large contributing factors.
First, in the past SPED students were separated from genpop. While it was terrible for the SPED students, it was good for the gen pop. We have now swung too far in the other direction. We have now incorporated the SPED students in the gen pop. While that is good for most of the SPED students, there are some SPED students who are too far outside the social norms that teachers can handle and we are requiring the teachers to keep them there. I have a child who was in a class with one of these way too difficult SPED children and at least every other day, the students had to be evacuated from the room when the child became violent and the teacher was not allowed to discipline or restrict the child. The other 22 children had to them go and sit in the hallway while a SPED teacher was brought from another assignment to come and deal with the child. The other 22 children lost valuable learning time repeatedly for this one child. We need to be able to find a middle ground. Incorporate the SPED students into the gen pop, but when some children because a danger to the teacher and other students, they should be removed from the general classroom and and alternative learning plan needs to be developed for that child. This bending over backwards to accommodate is not at all fair to the larger population of students who have to deal with these children. Now the policies towards SPED children are often dictated at the state level and not at the county/school district level. This needs to be addressed by the state school superintendent, but it is not political advantageous to do so.
Second, entitled parents have become worse. I know several MCPS teachers who have said that they have a lot of problems maintaining discipline in classrooms because the attitude of the school district is now to cave to whiny entitled parents. Children are children. Teachers try to discipline them and the child complains at home. In the past, many parents would try to then deal with the situation at home, teach their children manners, teach them how to cope and move on. Now, many of those entitled parents demand meetings with the teacher and/or administration and complain about how their little snowflake was treated in class. And the administration is caving to them and changing the way that teachers deal with such children and restricting teachers from maintaining discipline in class. My friends tell me the number of difficult parents has been on a steady rise for some time now and there is no evidence of it declining.
So, MD state needs to address the SPED problem and there needs to be a way to curb the overentitled parents for the situation to change.
This poster is on target. Our ES has several chair/desk/stapler/anything they can get their hands on throwers where classrooms have to evacuate multiple times per week as well. Frustrated parents are told essentially too bad so sad, there's nothing the administration can do, teachers are told to collect more data, and everyone loses: the gen ed kids who lose tons of learning time, the special ed kid who isn't getting the services and learning they need, the teachers who get fed up and leave, etc
Anonymous
07/13/2023 16:07
Subject: Elementary schools falling apart?
Anonymous wrote:I think it's a combination of virtual school, exhausted parents, permissive parenting practices that that prioritize the individual feeling special and good at the cost of a functional community, lack of clear and specific consequences for bad behavior, and large class sizes.
Virtual was two years ago. Not an excuse anymore.
Anonymous
07/13/2023 16:02
Subject: Elementary schools falling apart?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:It's almost like a hugely disruptive global pandemic is continuing to have disruptive effects...
This stuff was happening before the pandemic. Every year in elementary, my kids have had 1-2 disruptive kids in their class that demand disproportionate amounts of teacher attention. Maybe coincidence, but the kids are always the children of single mothers, and I've noticed quite a few of them move to different schools after a year or two.
But aren’t they also the kids of single dads?
Hmmm…
Anonymous
07/13/2023 15:57
Subject: Re:Elementary schools falling apart?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:This is true at our Focus School too. When I heard about all the problems at my kid's school-- disruptive kids requiring "evacuation" of the other kids into another classroom, teachers leaving en masse -- we started frantically searching for a new neighborhood in Potomac or Rockville, but now I'm thinking it's not worth spending $1M because the issues at my kid's school might be universal to MCPS. . .
I could have written this exact post. We are also at a Focus school and the behavior issues are horrible! It was pretty much on a daily basis last school year - one kid would run out of the classroom constantly, there were multiple physical fights IN the classroom, one kid occasionally threw furniture, like a trash can or a chair.
But I think this seems to be the case all over MCPS, so not sure the wealthier schools have an advantage.
Sounds like my school though we're not focus or Title 1. Sadly, getting hit and called a F'n B are the new normal in elementary schools. I heard a colleague mention something about a new blueprint or rule that for next year, you can't suspend kids under 8 years old. Our first and second graders last year were out of control. I can't fathom what we're going to do when suspensions are off the table. Oh that's right, we will have a restorative circle while I hold an ice pack against my face and that of my other students. This country's educational system is in the toilet because society expects us to solve all of their problems that are brought to school daily by our kids. It's so unfair to the 90% who really want to learn and have fun with their friends.
Anonymous
07/13/2023 14:16
Subject: Re:Elementary schools falling apart?
There are two large contributing factors.
First, in the past SPED students were separated from genpop. While it was terrible for the SPED students, it was good for the gen pop. We have now swung too far in the other direction. We have now incorporated the SPED students in the gen pop. While that is good for most of the SPED students, there are some SPED students who are too far outside the social norms that teachers can handle and we are requiring the teachers to keep them there. I have a child who was in a class with one of these way too difficult SPED children and at least every other day, the students had to be evacuated from the room when the child became violent and the teacher was not allowed to discipline or restrict the child. The other 22 children had to them go and sit in the hallway while a SPED teacher was brought from another assignment to come and deal with the child. The other 22 children lost valuable learning time repeatedly for this one child. We need to be able to find a middle ground. Incorporate the SPED students into the gen pop, but when some children because a danger to the teacher and other students, they should be removed from the general classroom and and alternative learning plan needs to be developed for that child. This bending over backwards to accommodate is not at all fair to the larger population of students who have to deal with these children. Now the policies towards SPED children are often dictated at the state level and not at the county/school district level. This needs to be addressed by the state school superintendent, but it is not political advantageous to do so.
Second, entitled parents have become worse. I know several MCPS teachers who have said that they have a lot of problems maintaining discipline in classrooms because the attitude of the school district is now to cave to whiny entitled parents. Children are children. Teachers try to discipline them and the child complains at home. In the past, many parents would try to then deal with the situation at home, teach their children manners, teach them how to cope and move on. Now, many of those entitled parents demand meetings with the teacher and/or administration and complain about how their little snowflake was treated in class. And the administration is caving to them and changing the way that teachers deal with such children and restricting teachers from maintaining discipline in class. My friends tell me the number of difficult parents has been on a steady rise for some time now and there is no evidence of it declining.
So, MD state needs to address the SPED problem and there needs to be a way to curb the overentitled parents for the situation to change.
First, in the past SPED students were separated from genpop. While it was terrible for the SPED students, it was good for the gen pop. We have now swung too far in the other direction. We have now incorporated the SPED students in the gen pop. While that is good for most of the SPED students, there are some SPED students who are too far outside the social norms that teachers can handle and we are requiring the teachers to keep them there. I have a child who was in a class with one of these way too difficult SPED children and at least every other day, the students had to be evacuated from the room when the child became violent and the teacher was not allowed to discipline or restrict the child. The other 22 children had to them go and sit in the hallway while a SPED teacher was brought from another assignment to come and deal with the child. The other 22 children lost valuable learning time repeatedly for this one child. We need to be able to find a middle ground. Incorporate the SPED students into the gen pop, but when some children because a danger to the teacher and other students, they should be removed from the general classroom and and alternative learning plan needs to be developed for that child. This bending over backwards to accommodate is not at all fair to the larger population of students who have to deal with these children. Now the policies towards SPED children are often dictated at the state level and not at the county/school district level. This needs to be addressed by the state school superintendent, but it is not political advantageous to do so.
Second, entitled parents have become worse. I know several MCPS teachers who have said that they have a lot of problems maintaining discipline in classrooms because the attitude of the school district is now to cave to whiny entitled parents. Children are children. Teachers try to discipline them and the child complains at home. In the past, many parents would try to then deal with the situation at home, teach their children manners, teach them how to cope and move on. Now, many of those entitled parents demand meetings with the teacher and/or administration and complain about how their little snowflake was treated in class. And the administration is caving to them and changing the way that teachers deal with such children and restricting teachers from maintaining discipline in class. My friends tell me the number of difficult parents has been on a steady rise for some time now and there is no evidence of it declining.
So, MD state needs to address the SPED problem and there needs to be a way to curb the overentitled parents for the situation to change.
Anonymous
07/13/2023 14:14
Subject: Elementary schools falling apart?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:It's almost like a hugely disruptive global pandemic is continuing to have disruptive effects...
It’s almost as though my kid didn’t have those issues at her private school this past year.
But sure. Continue to pretend it’s like that everywhere.
It's almost like schools that can choose whom to admit and whom to kick out have fewer disruptive students than public schools that are required to accept everyone.
When I was a kid, they disciplined disruptive kids and separated out kids who are unable to sit quietly to learn. Consequently I actually learned something from real hard copy textbooks and teachers actually taught grammar and we read high quality works.
I feel sorry for sped students who are unable to sit quietly to learn and end up wandering around the classroom, and then often meltdown by the end of the day. How is this good for the sped student? The class atmosphere is inappropriate for them and it is difficult for neurotypical students to learn in this environment.
Suspensions were a serious matter and too many could lead to being expelled. Consequently, the well behaved students were rewarded for their good behavior and the disruptive students faced consequences.
Schools are not doing anything. My ES even offers to take these expelled students from other school who disrupt the classroom. There is no consequence for these disruptive students.
Anonymous
07/13/2023 14:10
Subject: Elementary schools falling apart?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:It's almost like a hugely disruptive global pandemic is continuing to have disruptive effects...
It’s almost as though my kid didn’t have those issues at her private school this past year.
But sure. Continue to pretend it’s like that everywhere.
It's almost like schools that can choose whom to admit and whom to kick out have fewer disruptive students than public schools that are required to accept everyone.
When I was a kid, they disciplined disruptive kids and separated out kids who are unable to sit quietly to learn. Consequently I actually learned something from real hard copy textbooks and teachers actually taught grammar and we read high quality works.
I feel sorry for sped students who are unable to sit quietly to learn and end up wandering around the classroom, and then often meltdown by the end of the day. How is this good for the sped student? The class atmosphere is inappropriate for them and it is difficult for neurotypical students to learn in this environment.
Suspensions were a serious matter and too many could lead to being expelled. Consequently, the well behaved students were rewarded for their good behavior and the disruptive students faced consequences.
Exactly. Public schools can do quite a bit, up to and including expulsions. They just choose not to.
The good old days, when public schools could just boot kids out.
Anonymous
07/13/2023 13:56
Subject: Elementary schools falling apart?
I think it's a combination of virtual school, exhausted parents, permissive parenting practices that that prioritize the individual feeling special and good at the cost of a functional community, lack of clear and specific consequences for bad behavior, and large class sizes.
Anonymous
07/13/2023 13:51
Subject: Elementary schools falling apart?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:It's almost like a hugely disruptive global pandemic is continuing to have disruptive effects...
It’s almost as though my kid didn’t have those issues at her private school this past year.
But sure. Continue to pretend it’s like that everywhere.
It's almost like schools that can choose whom to admit and whom to kick out have fewer disruptive students than public schools that are required to accept everyone.
When I was a kid, they disciplined disruptive kids and separated out kids who are unable to sit quietly to learn. Consequently I actually learned something from real hard copy textbooks and teachers actually taught grammar and we read high quality works.
I feel sorry for sped students who are unable to sit quietly to learn and end up wandering around the classroom, and then often meltdown by the end of the day. How is this good for the sped student? The class atmosphere is inappropriate for them and it is difficult for neurotypical students to learn in this environment.
Suspensions were a serious matter and too many could lead to being expelled. Consequently, the well behaved students were rewarded for their good behavior and the disruptive students faced consequences.
Exactly. Public schools can do quite a bit, up to and including expulsions. They just choose not to.
Public schools cannot expel elementary schoolers, or at least not without a massive struggle. Nor do we want them to be able to expel elementary schoolers because that's terrible for society.
They can discipline them, though, and in MCPS they don’t.