Anonymous
Post 07/16/2023 19:19     Subject: Crisis, precarious new normal, repeat
Anonymous wrote:21:07 and I promise I’m not a monster. Just exhausted and have my own family.

I often wonder how elderly w/o any relatives manage? Often it seems that even the hospitals assume that family will transport, provide follow up care, move the parent into the facility, help furnish, unpack, set up, clean up, shuttle to appts (and I’ve done all).



It’s either family/friends or paid caregivers. There simply aren’t additional resources. It’s on the families, not the hospitals, to provide care in the community.
Anonymous
Post 07/16/2023 19:05     Subject: Crisis, precarious new normal, repeat
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Dealing with this now with my mom. In a span of 5 months, she sold the family home, moved to CCLC assisted living/nursing care then recovered enough to move to independent living. Now she’s in the hospital and will be released to assisted living for 30 days.

I’m supposed to help move her from the hospital back to Asst Living and I have used up all of my Family Medical Leave used to care for her prior to her first move. I had to tell my sibling that I can’t help.

Also, I’m enacting tough love. My mother refuses to take her prescription medicines (how she ended up in the hospital). This cycle of back and forth to the hospital has been ongoing for too long. I’m done.



This is the million dollar question: we can accept that elderly people of their right mind can make their own choices, even if they are terrible choices. But when those terrible choices are made - against the advice of professionals and their children - what happens to the moral obligation of the child? It is completely unreasonable for our parents to expect us to drop everything and rescue them from their bad choices, just to repeat the cycle.


I have been thinking about this a lot myself as I deal with my own mother. At what point is the health of the caregivers taken into consideration? At what point are our parent's decisions still considered "sound". Some cases are cut and dry but others - like my mom - is very good at pulling the wool over medical professional's eyes. And so the cycle continues. Meanwhile, every time the phone rings, or when I think I can actually get out of town for a long weekend - I find myself back in the hospital with her. The only thing I can really do is vow I won't do this for my kids.


This is a very important question and sadly I let it get to the point I had my own health crisis. My body was signaling and i just kept ignoring and dealing with the mom horror show. I think a lot of doctors/case managers/providers/family members just assume certain women and some men will do backflips forever for the challenging elder and they just continue to take the easy route and support the elder and gaslight the one lucky enough to deal with emergencies. I finally had no choice but to say sorry I can do no more. The world didn't end. Sadly I had to explain my health issue, because professionals apparently need to judge those of us who finally set boundaries. Sure enough family and providers finally turned on mom and gave her the business for refusing to comply with meds and lashing out so much and for not following recommendations. Siblings still tried to get back the easy road of expecting me to do everything. Now they are finally pushing her to accept an appropriate residential.

Don't let this do in your health. Learn from me and set your boundaries and guard your right to have health. You should not need a major diagnosis to be able to say it's too much and to be firm and confident. Don't allow anyone to shame you, gaslight you and guiltrip. I have said this before. Some parents will gladly eat their young. Don't let them. It has been too many years of this. I wish I set my boundaries MUCH earlier. I have seen too often that too many good deeds get punished. Too many of my peers not only dealt with awful behavior and endless emergencies, but their own serious health issues or their teens went into crisis. Someone here said it is more important to be a good elder than a good child. Value your children's need to have health parents over your parent's needs to have their children be servants.


Thank you for this. Not to hijack the OP, but I have found most family, friends, doctors imply that I should give up everything for my mom's care. That it is my obligation to do so. I have just spent another exhausting week dealing with her medical needs, I had to cancel 3 of my own appointments - ones that had to be made months in advance. So while I find solutions for my mom, I am losing touch with my friends, my physical health and my kids. Not even to mention my job. For what? What is the end game - my mom lives 2, 3, 5 more years? Meanwhile, I end up sick, exhausted and unhealthy with no friends or relationships with my own kids?


It’s your choice. And I mean that kindly.

My sister isn’t speaking to me because I didn’t leave my toddlers to rush to sit bedside by my father’s hospital bed while they took measures I disagreed with to keep him alive. No surprise they were a waste of time - the man was dead.

It wasn’t my choice how he died, but I could choose to not indulge it. I flew in for less than 48 hours to bury him and won’t be back to visit my mom because her place isn’t feasible with kids. She knows where I live. She can move.


With no siblings SOMEONE has to be an advocate. My point is caring for elders is draining, exhausting and many choices are expensive. If only from an early point - parents would acknowledge this and realize they can name choices before it becomes a crisis. For context, I had worked with my mom prior to her hospitalizations to come up with her "plan" which we all thought was a great plan, until it wasn't. Strokes and other health issues can change a person's ability to follow a "plan". Not so sick they fit into many of the solutions available, not so well they can live on their own. No matter what has to be done, a loved one involved is important. And as you said early "it's your choice, and I mean that kindly". YES, I made the choice to assist my mom, who was a caring and loving individual to me. She put aside much of her life for me, it's my turn to help her. What I didn't choose was just how difficult it can be to find care for her that is not me - I don't have a million bucks and I don't have 24/7 hours to devote to her.
Anonymous
Post 07/16/2023 18:45     Subject: Crisis, precarious new normal, repeat
Anonymous wrote:This is a beauty of a continuing care community -- they can leave the hospital for assisted living or skilled nursing right in the same community where their independent living unit is.

Well, to me that's the beauty of a CCRC. My ILs didn't see it that way and both died in the hospital they kept bouncing back to after leaving before they were anywhere near recovered. In the hospital's defense, they weren't necessarily sick enough to be in the hospital and they lied like rugs to be discharged.


You don’t think they’d be going to the hospital from the CCRC? That’s naïve. People are sick and bouncing back-and-forth either way. The question is just where they feel most comfortable. You can choose that for yourself but not for others.
Anonymous
Post 07/16/2023 18:32     Subject: Crisis, precarious new normal, repeat
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Dealing with this now with my mom. In a span of 5 months, she sold the family home, moved to CCLC assisted living/nursing care then recovered enough to move to independent living. Now she’s in the hospital and will be released to assisted living for 30 days.

I’m supposed to help move her from the hospital back to Asst Living and I have used up all of my Family Medical Leave used to care for her prior to her first move. I had to tell my sibling that I can’t help.

Also, I’m enacting tough love. My mother refuses to take her prescription medicines (how she ended up in the hospital). This cycle of back and forth to the hospital has been ongoing for too long. I’m done.



This is the million dollar question: we can accept that elderly people of their right mind can make their own choices, even if they are terrible choices. But when those terrible choices are made - against the advice of professionals and their children - what happens to the moral obligation of the child? It is completely unreasonable for our parents to expect us to drop everything and rescue them from their bad choices, just to repeat the cycle.


I have been thinking about this a lot myself as I deal with my own mother. At what point is the health of the caregivers taken into consideration? At what point are our parent's decisions still considered "sound". Some cases are cut and dry but others - like my mom - is very good at pulling the wool over medical professional's eyes. And so the cycle continues. Meanwhile, every time the phone rings, or when I think I can actually get out of town for a long weekend - I find myself back in the hospital with her. The only thing I can really do is vow I won't do this for my kids.


This is a very important question and sadly I let it get to the point I had my own health crisis. My body was signaling and i just kept ignoring and dealing with the mom horror show. I think a lot of doctors/case managers/providers/family members just assume certain women and some men will do backflips forever for the challenging elder and they just continue to take the easy route and support the elder and gaslight the one lucky enough to deal with emergencies. I finally had no choice but to say sorry I can do no more. The world didn't end. Sadly I had to explain my health issue, because professionals apparently need to judge those of us who finally set boundaries. Sure enough family and providers finally turned on mom and gave her the business for refusing to comply with meds and lashing out so much and for not following recommendations. Siblings still tried to get back the easy road of expecting me to do everything. Now they are finally pushing her to accept an appropriate residential.

Don't let this do in your health. Learn from me and set your boundaries and guard your right to have health. You should not need a major diagnosis to be able to say it's too much and to be firm and confident. Don't allow anyone to shame you, gaslight you and guiltrip. I have said this before. Some parents will gladly eat their young. Don't let them. It has been too many years of this. I wish I set my boundaries MUCH earlier. I have seen too often that too many good deeds get punished. Too many of my peers not only dealt with awful behavior and endless emergencies, but their own serious health issues or their teens went into crisis. Someone here said it is more important to be a good elder than a good child. Value your children's need to have health parents over your parent's needs to have their children be servants.


Thank you for this. Not to hijack the OP, but I have found most family, friends, doctors imply that I should give up everything for my mom's care. That it is my obligation to do so. I have just spent another exhausting week dealing with her medical needs, I had to cancel 3 of my own appointments - ones that had to be made months in advance. So while I find solutions for my mom, I am losing touch with my friends, my physical health and my kids. Not even to mention my job. For what? What is the end game - my mom lives 2, 3, 5 more years? Meanwhile, I end up sick, exhausted and unhealthy with no friends or relationships with my own kids?


It’s your choice. And I mean that kindly.

My sister isn’t speaking to me because I didn’t leave my toddlers to rush to sit bedside by my father’s hospital bed while they took measures I disagreed with to keep him alive. No surprise they were a waste of time - the man was dead.

It wasn’t my choice how he died, but I could choose to not indulge it. I flew in for less than 48 hours to bury him and won’t be back to visit my mom because her place isn’t feasible with kids. She knows where I live. She can move.
Anonymous
Post 07/16/2023 17:31     Subject: Crisis, precarious new normal, repeat
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Dealing with this now with my mom. In a span of 5 months, she sold the family home, moved to CCLC assisted living/nursing care then recovered enough to move to independent living. Now she’s in the hospital and will be released to assisted living for 30 days.

I’m supposed to help move her from the hospital back to Asst Living and I have used up all of my Family Medical Leave used to care for her prior to her first move. I had to tell my sibling that I can’t help.

Also, I’m enacting tough love. My mother refuses to take her prescription medicines (how she ended up in the hospital). This cycle of back and forth to the hospital has been ongoing for too long. I’m done.



This is the million dollar question: we can accept that elderly people of their right mind can make their own choices, even if they are terrible choices. But when those terrible choices are made - against the advice of professionals and their children - what happens to the moral obligation of the child? It is completely unreasonable for our parents to expect us to drop everything and rescue them from their bad choices, just to repeat the cycle.


I have been thinking about this a lot myself as I deal with my own mother. At what point is the health of the caregivers taken into consideration? At what point are our parent's decisions still considered "sound". Some cases are cut and dry but others - like my mom - is very good at pulling the wool over medical professional's eyes. And so the cycle continues. Meanwhile, every time the phone rings, or when I think I can actually get out of town for a long weekend - I find myself back in the hospital with her. The only thing I can really do is vow I won't do this for my kids.


This is a very important question and sadly I let it get to the point I had my own health crisis. My body was signaling and i just kept ignoring and dealing with the mom horror show. I think a lot of doctors/case managers/providers/family members just assume certain women and some men will do backflips forever for the challenging elder and they just continue to take the easy route and support the elder and gaslight the one lucky enough to deal with emergencies. I finally had no choice but to say sorry I can do no more. The world didn't end. Sadly I had to explain my health issue, because professionals apparently need to judge those of us who finally set boundaries. Sure enough family and providers finally turned on mom and gave her the business for refusing to comply with meds and lashing out so much and for not following recommendations. Siblings still tried to get back the easy road of expecting me to do everything. Now they are finally pushing her to accept an appropriate residential.

Don't let this do in your health. Learn from me and set your boundaries and guard your right to have health. You should not need a major diagnosis to be able to say it's too much and to be firm and confident. Don't allow anyone to shame you, gaslight you and guiltrip. I have said this before. Some parents will gladly eat their young. Don't let them. It has been too many years of this. I wish I set my boundaries MUCH earlier. I have seen too often that too many good deeds get punished. Too many of my peers not only dealt with awful behavior and endless emergencies, but their own serious health issues or their teens went into crisis. Someone here said it is more important to be a good elder than a good child. Value your children's need to have health parents over your parent's needs to have their children be servants.


Thank you for this. Not to hijack the OP, but I have found most family, friends, doctors imply that I should give up everything for my mom's care. That it is my obligation to do so. I have just spent another exhausting week dealing with her medical needs, I had to cancel 3 of my own appointments - ones that had to be made months in advance. So while I find solutions for my mom, I am losing touch with my friends, my physical health and my kids. Not even to mention my job. For what? What is the end game - my mom lives 2, 3, 5 more years? Meanwhile, I end up sick, exhausted and unhealthy with no friends or relationships with my own kids?
Anonymous
Post 07/16/2023 17:02     Subject: Crisis, precarious new normal, repeat
My mother was a hoarder who died in squalor refusing any help including medical help. After that, anything not as drastic is good enough for me. My dad is much more agreeable and maintains his health to the best of his ability, but when he starts to decline it will be “whatever you want, Dad, as long as there is some basic dignity in it”.
I can already see how much he would hate being in any group setting, being cared for, being helpless. He is free to decide. I will try to get him a home attendant through the state but who knows.
Anonymous
Post 07/16/2023 17:01     Subject: Crisis, precarious new normal, repeat
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Dealing with this now with my mom. In a span of 5 months, she sold the family home, moved to CCLC assisted living/nursing care then recovered enough to move to independent living. Now she’s in the hospital and will be released to assisted living for 30 days.

I’m supposed to help move her from the hospital back to Asst Living and I have used up all of my Family Medical Leave used to care for her prior to her first move. I had to tell my sibling that I can’t help.

Also, I’m enacting tough love. My mother refuses to take her prescription medicines (how she ended up in the hospital). This cycle of back and forth to the hospital has been ongoing for too long. I’m done.



This is the million dollar question: we can accept that elderly people of their right mind can make their own choices, even if they are terrible choices. But when those terrible choices are made - against the advice of professionals and their children - what happens to the moral obligation of the child? It is completely unreasonable for our parents to expect us to drop everything and rescue them from their bad choices, just to repeat the cycle.


I have been thinking about this a lot myself as I deal with my own mother. At what point is the health of the caregivers taken into consideration? At what point are our parent's decisions still considered "sound". Some cases are cut and dry but others - like my mom - is very good at pulling the wool over medical professional's eyes. And so the cycle continues. Meanwhile, every time the phone rings, or when I think I can actually get out of town for a long weekend - I find myself back in the hospital with her. The only thing I can really do is vow I won't do this for my kids.


This is a very important question and sadly I let it get to the point I had my own health crisis. My body was signaling and i just kept ignoring and dealing with the mom horror show. I think a lot of doctors/case managers/providers/family members just assume certain women and some men will do backflips forever for the challenging elder and they just continue to take the easy route and support the elder and gaslight the one lucky enough to deal with emergencies. I finally had no choice but to say sorry I can do no more. The world didn't end. Sadly I had to explain my health issue, because professionals apparently need to judge those of us who finally set boundaries. Sure enough family and providers finally turned on mom and gave her the business for refusing to comply with meds and lashing out so much and for not following recommendations. Siblings still tried to get back the easy road of expecting me to do everything. Now they are finally pushing her to accept an appropriate residential.

Don't let this do in your health. Learn from me and set your boundaries and guard your right to have health. You should not need a major diagnosis to be able to say it's too much and to be firm and confident. Don't allow anyone to shame you, gaslight you and guiltrip. I have said this before. Some parents will gladly eat their young. Don't let them. It has been too many years of this. I wish I set my boundaries MUCH earlier. I have seen too often that too many good deeds get punished. Too many of my peers not only dealt with awful behavior and endless emergencies, but their own serious health issues or their teens went into crisis. Someone here said it is more important to be a good elder than a good child. Value your children's need to have health parents over your parent's needs to have their children be servants.
Anonymous
Post 07/16/2023 16:57     Subject: Crisis, precarious new normal, repeat
It’s very common and very tough. So sorry, OP. You do what you can and accept the limits. If/when you’re in the hospital with them, speak to the social worker. They can help you understand the levers you have if you think there’s a crisis and one of them is refusing to take the other to the hospital (like an infected bedsore that the caregiving parent says is “fine”).
Anonymous
Post 07/16/2023 16:51     Subject: Crisis, precarious new normal, repeat
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Dealing with this now with my mom. In a span of 5 months, she sold the family home, moved to CCLC assisted living/nursing care then recovered enough to move to independent living. Now she’s in the hospital and will be released to assisted living for 30 days.

I’m supposed to help move her from the hospital back to Asst Living and I have used up all of my Family Medical Leave used to care for her prior to her first move. I had to tell my sibling that I can’t help.

Also, I’m enacting tough love. My mother refuses to take her prescription medicines (how she ended up in the hospital). This cycle of back and forth to the hospital has been ongoing for too long. I’m done.



This is the million dollar question: we can accept that elderly people of their right mind can make their own choices, even if they are terrible choices. But when those terrible choices are made - against the advice of professionals and their children - what happens to the moral obligation of the child? It is completely unreasonable for our parents to expect us to drop everything and rescue them from their bad choices, just to repeat the cycle.


I have been thinking about this a lot myself as I deal with my own mother. At what point is the health of the caregivers taken into consideration? At what point are our parent's decisions still considered "sound". Some cases are cut and dry but others - like my mom - is very good at pulling the wool over medical professional's eyes. And so the cycle continues. Meanwhile, every time the phone rings, or when I think I can actually get out of town for a long weekend - I find myself back in the hospital with her. The only thing I can really do is vow I won't do this for my kids.
Anonymous
Post 07/16/2023 09:07     Subject: Crisis, precarious new normal, repeat
Anonymous wrote:Dealing with this now with my mom. In a span of 5 months, she sold the family home, moved to CCLC assisted living/nursing care then recovered enough to move to independent living. Now she’s in the hospital and will be released to assisted living for 30 days.

I’m supposed to help move her from the hospital back to Asst Living and I have used up all of my Family Medical Leave used to care for her prior to her first move. I had to tell my sibling that I can’t help.

Also, I’m enacting tough love. My mother refuses to take her prescription medicines (how she ended up in the hospital). This cycle of back and forth to the hospital has been ongoing for too long. I’m done.



This is the million dollar question: we can accept that elderly people of their right mind can make their own choices, even if they are terrible choices. But when those terrible choices are made - against the advice of professionals and their children - what happens to the moral obligation of the child? It is completely unreasonable for our parents to expect us to drop everything and rescue them from their bad choices, just to repeat the cycle.
Anonymous
Post 07/15/2023 21:13     Subject: Crisis, precarious new normal, repeat
21:07 and I promise I’m not a monster. Just exhausted and have my own family.

I often wonder how elderly w/o any relatives manage? Often it seems that even the hospitals assume that family will transport, provide follow up care, move the parent into the facility, help furnish, unpack, set up, clean up, shuttle to appts (and I’ve done all).

Anonymous
Post 07/15/2023 21:07     Subject: Crisis, precarious new normal, repeat
Dealing with this now with my mom. In a span of 5 months, she sold the family home, moved to CCLC assisted living/nursing care then recovered enough to move to independent living. Now she’s in the hospital and will be released to assisted living for 30 days.

I’m supposed to help move her from the hospital back to Asst Living and I have used up all of my Family Medical Leave used to care for her prior to her first move. I had to tell my sibling that I can’t help.

Also, I’m enacting tough love. My mother refuses to take her prescription medicines (how she ended up in the hospital). This cycle of back and forth to the hospital has been ongoing for too long. I’m done.

Anonymous
Post 07/15/2023 20:56     Subject: Crisis, precarious new normal, repeat
OP I've been through this with my parents, and now with my FIL, and I think it's super-common.

It will not change. The pattern is of circling the drain, and the ER visits will come faster and faster as they circle the drain. You can see this pattern but they either don't see it or refuse to see it.

For example, this went on with my mom from 1998 to 2019. It starts with an event every year or two, then speeds up and before you know it, they barely get out of the hospital before they are back in again.

I'm sorry, OP. It's hard to watch; you love them, you are capable, but they won't let you help--except to help mop up each time.
Anonymous
Post 07/15/2023 20:51     Subject: Crisis, precarious new normal, repeat
OP, are you me? You're not, but you could be!

Dad also has Parkinsons, has some cognitive decline (which is a later stage symptom of the disease) so Mom makes decisions. He 'wants to stay home forever'. Mom goes along with that. Dad toppled onto Mom a year ago, causing them both to fall and she broke her hip. So now they are both handicapped. She's lucky to be alive (they were on the floor overnight as this happened about an hour after my daily visit).

It's been...a journey... for sure. Not going to write it all out but I hear you OP. They're PAST ready for assisted living but won't go. I'm sure it will end in crisis for one or both of them (again). It's the norm now I guess. I love them so much, but wow this has been stressful.
Anonymous
Post 07/10/2023 15:53     Subject: Re:Crisis, precarious new normal, repeat
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I think this is so common. My parents did this. I have many friends with parents who did this.

Eventually there will be a crisis big enough that it will all come to an end. That is the brutal reality. Just point that out to your parents in stark terms. Eventually they will get discharged home and will get someplace not of their own choosing OR they'll die in a hospital, which is probably not the ending they want. I will say though the bar is EXTREMELY low to get sent home. The hospital just doesn't care and will send people home in a pretty appalling state.

Hugs OP.


If a patient has capacity to make their own decisions (and it’s not uncommon for psychiatry to to a bedside evaluation to confirm this), the hospital has no choice but to send them home, because the hospital is not a LTC facility. All they can do is refer to APS to follow the patient in the community.


Meh, I'll go with at least the social workers don't care. My father was falling repeatedly and could not walk independently at all and they sent him home. Anyone with eyes would be able to tell this man was not going to be able to make it at home, where he lived alone which they knew, and things were unsafe. As long as someone is at the hospital to get them out, they will discharge them. My father was eager to be discharged and went along with it. Of completely sound mind.

In my case myself and siblings are not local, he got a friend to drive him home, we had a cousin drive 2 hours and spend an emergency overnight, and then we got 24-7 home care lined up as quickly as possible (which was not a long or medium term affordable option for my parent or me and siblings but...crisis). Siblings traveled to get there and stayed on and off a couple weeks to work through system to find him an affordable bed.

So back to OP's post, something like the above will finally happen. This was my second parent left living alone. When there are two of them they do tend to stumble along together crisis to crisis.