Anonymous wrote:No particular advice but the whole premise of the question (and the answers so far) are interesting and surprising to me. Is it that common for grandparents to care deeply about where kids go to college? I’m from a pretty highly educated family but this never came up.

Not in our family. My in-laws went to Brown and then Harvard MBA. Their two children didn’t and they never expected it.

Our two oldest children are artistic, musical, not interested in academics. My in-laws never once tried to inject their opinions. They have paid for everything including art schools that are the same price as private colleges. There are a lot of people in their 20s in NYC being supported by grandparents.

Maybe it’s just grandparents looking at their grandkids with rose colored glasses?

Anonymous wrote:My parents weren’t set on a brand name, but they did assume that since my kids have high stats and good extracurriculars, pretty much any school would of course be accepting them and throwing money at them.

Those with parents who have this delusion, were you low income back in your day and so got a lot of financial aid? It definitely wasn't my experience as a middle class family in the 80s that colleges would be throwing money at me. In fact, I applied to a range of private, OOS public, in-state public, was accepted everywhere, and while I got some scholarship money at all the privates it was a drop in the bucket and so I went in-state. My parents are now surprised that DD is going to a private school for the same cost as DS is at an in-state public U. The pricing/merit aid game is different now, as long as you are open to a variety of schools.

Anonymous wrote: Does anyone know of a good article or other quick link I can send to my parents to explain why their grandchild does not actually have a legitimate chance at getting into an Ivy or other top ranked school. I tried reading them admissions percentages, and it didn't seem to help. Is there an Explaining Modern College Admissions for Boomers guide out there?

Solidarity here. Just look at Ivy acceptance rates in the 50s and 60s. Even for their kids and the rates in the 90s. They ignore the percentages of today and conclude that they were just smarter. 🙄

Anonymous wrote:For a moment of reflection: ours have no living grandparents to (not) care about such things.

That said.....this is a good start.

Anonymous wrote:Give them "Who Gets In and Why."

My current battle with DH is over how to pay for it. (And, yes, I've tried to get him to read "The Price You Pay"). DH thinks our good student/child will get "in" and get lots of "scholarship" money because "back when he [did it]" (in the 90s), kids with our kid's current stats....did. Those days are gone.

He also has no clue what even in-state, all-in costs are. It's going to be a long Fall.

Please figure out now how much you can afford to pay/help your child with for college. And make sure your kid knows this and crafts a college list accordingly. There are places to get good merit---but it will be 1-2 tiers BELOW targets for your kid. College can be affordable, but don't let your kid think you can pay $50K/year if you cannot actually do that.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Are there REALLY grandparents that invested in the brand of the college for grandkids. Neither my parents nor my in laws have said a single word about the college search, other than general dismay at how ridiculously expensive tuition is. Little wonder todays high schoolers are stressed out. It comes from parents, grandparents (apparently), and peers (who get it from parents and now grandparents).

Are you actually surprised? Look at the level of intensity many people on these boards and in this area have about school and sports. Where do you think it came from?

In my family, my mom understands these issues but my dad is stealth crazy about it. You have to be super careful how and when you tell him anything. Hell act completely disinterested in college admissions, even express surprise that any of his grandchildren are old enough to apply, but then suddenly respond with “wait, why is he going there? Couldn’t he at least go to [state flagship]? Did he bomb the SAT or something?” Right in front of the kid.

Time to have a discussion with grandpa---warn him if he cannot control what comes out of his mouth around you and his grandkids, then he won't be around for you to hear his verbal crap
Do it for your kids---quite honestly, if they are college applying age and you haven't shut this crap down, they are already "damaged" by this.

I had a grandparent who considered 2 of his other grandkids to be "the perfect, smartest, best grandkids around, amazing musician, etc " And that was all I ever heard about when I was around my grandparents. No mention ever about all the accomplishments I had done other than, "that's nice". No bragging about me to friends, family, etc.

Yet, Ironically, I was actually more accomplished, smarter, went to a better undergrad (got 2 degrees--engineering and Music) and grad schools. I was an accomplished musician who was first chair in the STATE all 4 years of HS. I graduated HS with a 4.0UW and got a 1400 (which was 98-99% back then). I went to a T10 university on scholarship and then onto graduate school at T20 (but was T5 for the major).

I hated spending time with my grandparents, because I felt I was never good enough. Luckily, I am somehow quite close with those cousins now. But I would do everything to get out of having to go see the grandparents/spend a week with them in the summer, because who wants to constantly hear they are not good enough.

Just tell them: college admissions has changed. Now all of the T25 have admission rates below 20-25% and that makes them a "reach" for everyone. So while junior may apply to some, they recognized that it is a long shot for everyone so we are helping them focus on finding the best fit schools that are targets and safeties (much higher acceptance rates). Then tell your parents it's a stressful time and to butt out and let junior make their decisions

Anonymous wrote:Are there REALLY grandparents that invested in the brand of the college for grandkids. Neither my parents nor my in laws have said a single word about the college search, other than general dismay at how ridiculously expensive tuition is. Little wonder todays high schoolers are stressed out. It comes from parents, grandparents (apparently), and peers (who get it from parents and now grandparents).

Yes!! My DH’s mother is this way. She tells us all the colleges her friends’ grandchildren went to, and is worried our child won’t get in somewhere as good. All the old people sit and compare in her friend circle. It makes me chuckle. Honestly you just have to roll your eyes, and ignore.

My own parents are complete opposite. They think the whole college application and tiger parenting thing is absurd. I don’t share anything with them bc I don’t want to look like a tiger mom, lol.

My parents weren’t set on a brand name, but they did assume that since my kids have high stats and good extracurriculars, pretty much any school would of course be accepting them and throwing money at them.

Anonymous wrote:If they can read a graph, have them look at this blog post (the entire site is great, but this particular piece has stuck with me): https://www.highereddatastories.com/2022/10/yes-your-yield-rate-is-still-falling.html

You can enter any school to see specific data about that school. They're all pretty wild, but if you really want to make an impression, try Northeastern: in 2001, Northeastern had less than 15k applicants and a 70% acceptance rate. In 2021, there were more than 75k applicants and the admit rate was 18.4%. And of course, all the top 50 or 100 schools have become even more competitive in the past 2 years since this data was released.

From the article:
I think it's most useful for higher education enrollment professionals who have to explain to people at their university why their yield rate is falling. The short answer is that applications and admits are increasing faster than student populations: If a student today applies to an average of seven colleges, compared to four colleges twenty years ago, yield rate almost has to go down.

Does the article really make the case you're looking for?

The chance of attending is, roughly, number of qualified + interested students divided by the number of slots available at top colleges and universities. That's a quotient: to see whether it went up or down examine whether the numerator and/or denominator went up or down, or both, and by what amount(s).

The rate at which students are admitted at an individual college or university, or even across multiple, is fairly uninteresting in my view since a student can attend only one school and the admissions rates do not influence either numerator or denominator. Here is what does in my view:

- population trends (number of high school grads has been falling)
- international students (was increasing in 2000's and 2010's to compensate for shortfall in domestic demand, has not been increasing recently)
- education trends (national decrease in test scores and college preparedness, huge need for remedial math for instance upon college entry)
- available slots overall (slight increase at top schools, huge oversupply nationwide across all schools)
- DEI trends (may increase numerator by softening the qualification conditions, though probably not significantly so)

It would be nice if someone compiled those numbers and put them together as a likelihood - how likely a student who meets performance bar X is to attend a top college in 1980 vs 2000 vs 2020. I'm pretty sure this quotient has either been staying constant or is probably slightly trending upwards.

^^ This poster has the bigger problem due to the clueless dad. The grands will get over it

For a moment of reflection: ours have no living grandparents to (not) care about such things.

That said.....this is a good start.

Anonymous wrote:Give them "Who Gets In and Why."

My current battle with DH is over how to pay for it. (And, yes, I've tried to get him to read "The Price You Pay"). DH thinks our good student/child will get "in" and get lots of "scholarship" money because "back when he [did it]" (in the 90s), kids with our kid's current stats....did. Those days are gone.

He also has no clue what even in-state, all-in costs are. It's going to be a long Fall.

Anonymous wrote:I’ve tried with my mom and she gets it…and then starts fussing again. She has off the charts anxiety. She thinks she’s being reassuring and will say “well, I know UMD-CP will be just fine.” And I’ll say again, “Mom, he can’t get into CP. But maybe UMBC, or Salisbury if he wants a state school.” And she looks all devastated and says “Really? You told me he was doing okay in school.” I want to pull my hair out.

She also always tells me when one of her friends…or her friends of friends…went to my dad’s prep school or college alma mater. Sometimes I push back on the snobbishness, and sometimes I just change the subject.

Giving data won’t help a person this insecure. Ignoring is the only way.

I’ve tried with my mom and she gets it…and then starts fussing again. She has off the charts anxiety. She thinks she’s being reassuring and will say “well, I know UMD-CP will be just fine.” And I’ll say again, “Mom, he can’t get into CP. But maybe UMBC, or Salisbury if he wants a state school.” And she looks all devastated and says “Really? You told me he was doing okay in school.” I want to pull my hair out.

She also always tells me when one of her friends…or her friends of friends…went to my dad’s prep school or college alma mater. Sometimes I push back on the snobbishness, and sometimes I just change the subject.

Anonymous wrote:Are there REALLY grandparents that invested in the brand of the college for grandkids. Neither my parents nor my in laws have said a single word about the college search, other than general dismay at how ridiculously expensive tuition is. Little wonder todays high schoolers are stressed out. It comes from parents, grandparents (apparently), and peers (who get it from parents and now grandparents).

Are you actually surprised? Look at the level of intensity many people on these boards and in this area have about school and sports. Where do you think it came from?

In my family, my mom understands these issues but my dad is stealth crazy about it. You have to be super careful how and when you tell him anything. Hell act completely disinterested in college admissions, even express surprise that any of his grandchildren are old enough to apply, but then suddenly respond with “wait, why is he going there? Couldn’t he at least go to [state flagship]? Did he bomb the SAT or something?” Right in front of the kid.

Anonymous wrote:How old are they OP? I am 66 and am fully aware of the realities of college acceptance rates.

It’s not really about their age. It depends on whether you had a recent experience with college admissions (or not). It’s like having your first baby. Until you go thru one, you honestly can’t fully get it.