Apply to colleges that are not as popular with his classmates to give him space.

I disagree with the pre-professional recommendation and think that colleges that have a required Freshman seminar / strong advising program might be a better fit.

This is where fall tours might be helpful.
A college like Gonzaga might be something to consider.

Just let him go to a big state school with tons of sport and get great grades and learn to love school again.

Anonymous wrote:High stats and demoralized? What does that mean?

It means he’s smart but inky has 10 APs and got a few 4s instead of 15 APs and all 5’s… do now he feels failure and it’s sucking the life and joy out of him.

From the OP: “He’s never been an intellectually curious kid, identifies more with the ‘jocks’, and has no idea what he wants to major in.”

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I've seen this movie enough times to have quite a clear prescription. You might not like it. Sharp kids who aren't intellectual should study engineering if they want that and business if they don't. Especially if they're jocks. Your DC probably would hate a SLAC; he'd probably love IU-Kelley. And he'd have good job options afterwards.

A kid can be "sharp" and still have zero interest in or aptitude for engineering, any form of engineering. And engineering is NOT a field to go into unless you actually want to be doing it -- no matter what "good job options" there are.

OP was very clear that her kid has no idea yet what he wants to study. Prescribing an engineering major for a kid who is burned out even before starting college, a kid who may or may not have STEM aptitude, is a recipe for a phenomenally stressed freshman who will hate academics at college too, not "rebuild his love for learning."

OP needs ideas about college environments and overall fit, not about specific majors, not yet.

To the OP: Please re-read the post at 8:53 about a potential gap year. That parent is speaking from experience and notes how the gap year helped her kid focus on some subjects, as well as get a break. A gap year is more common now, I think, and even pre-pandemic I knew of smart, academic kids who took them; a friend's son spent the year doing a combination of down time, volunteering for political campaigns (he was interested in possibly studying law with an eye to working on the Hill), and structured experiences studying--like, four weeks doing a sound engineering course (another interest), etc. I would require my kid to do some structured experiences and volunteer over the year like my friend's son did, but if a gap year would help, it's worth considering.

No. You are totally wrong. College is about ROI, full stop! The entire point of college is to get a good job afterwards.

OP, unless you have a trust fund set up for your kid, you need to rid yourself of this “love of learning” idea. You need to instill a pre-professional attitude and good money sense into your kid, and remove any idea of “loving” one’s major or their career or what they study in college.

The people I know who followed “their love of learning” in college did NOT end up doing well in terms of ROI in college and beyond. They went to colleges like Wesleyan and majored in things like English and Philosophy and ended up in NPO careers.

I would highly recommend a pre-professional school with great engineering and business programs for your kid. Suggestions include:

Penn
Dartmouth
Drexel
Georgetown
Pitt
Colgate
Bucknell
UMD
Northeastern

Do NOT send your kid to a SLAC unless they’re known to be great at career placement (Colgate and Bucknell are two examples).

The time to focus on ROI is NOW!

PP above, is this also you from earlier in the thread? If not, this must be your twin:

I know “engineering” is the opposite of “doesn’t know what he wants to do,” but to me it is the epitome of high stats plus low intellectual curiosity. (Happy Father’s Day to my engineer dad!) Maybe take some time this summer to explore whether that might be a good path.
Whether engineering or undecided, look at Bucknell. Pitt honors, U of SC honors, and Tulane would all provide access to a small city full of potential internships.

Nowhere does OP say the son has "low intellectual curiosity." You're projecting that onto the OP's kid (or your twin is). He's burned out. That is not the same as lacking intellectural curiosity. But you wouldn't get that since you proselytize for a one-size-fits all college experience.

You really have no idea at all what OP's kid is dealing with right now, or what burnout is like for a kid of 17-18 years old, or why your engineering prescription does not work for everyone. If he's got interest and aptitude? Sure, it's great. I didn't even say he has to love it (since the idea of actually loving what one studies seems to be anathema to you.) But a student should at least be engaged, in order to do well and eventually make all that cash on which you focus.

To OP: treat the "ROI/engineering is all that matters" posts with the attention you feel they deserve.

A school with good pre-professional programs across varying fields, or a gap year with some specific goals, could be options for him. Another option could be taking pressure off by having him go after a second semester admission, where he would start in January of '24 instead of fall '23, unless that would create social and adjustment issues. A lot of variables to consider. But shoehorning him into a major he's not truly interested in doing, while talking up how his life plan must earn back the $$ investment you make in his tuition? That's a sure way to burn him out all over again before he's even a college freshman.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I've seen this movie enough times to have quite a clear prescription. You might not like it. Sharp kids who aren't intellectual should study engineering if they want that and business if they don't. Especially if they're jocks. Your DC probably would hate a SLAC; he'd probably love IU-Kelley. And he'd have good job options afterwards.

A kid can be "sharp" and still have zero interest in or aptitude for engineering, any form of engineering. And engineering is NOT a field to go into unless you actually want to be doing it -- no matter what "good job options" there are.

OP was very clear that her kid has no idea yet what he wants to study. Prescribing an engineering major for a kid who is burned out even before starting college, a kid who may or may not have STEM aptitude, is a recipe for a phenomenally stressed freshman who will hate academics at college too, not "rebuild his love for learning."

OP needs ideas about college environments and overall fit, not about specific majors, not yet.

To the OP: Please re-read the post at 8:53 about a potential gap year. That parent is speaking from experience and notes how the gap year helped her kid focus on some subjects, as well as get a break. A gap year is more common now, I think, and even pre-pandemic I knew of smart, academic kids who took them; a friend's son spent the year doing a combination of down time, volunteering for political campaigns (he was interested in possibly studying law with an eye to working on the Hill), and structured experiences studying--like, four weeks doing a sound engineering course (another interest), etc. I would require my kid to do some structured experiences and volunteer over the year like my friend's son did, but if a gap year would help, it's worth considering.

No. You are totally wrong. College is about ROI, full stop! The entire point of college is to get a good job afterwards.

OP, unless you have a trust fund set up for your kid, you need to rid yourself of this “love of learning” idea. You need to instill a pre-professional attitude and good money sense into your kid, and remove any idea of “loving” one’s major or their career or what they study in college.

The people I know who followed “their love of learning” in college did NOT end up doing well in terms of ROI in college and beyond. They went to colleges like Wesleyan and majored in things like English and Philosophy and ended up in NPO careers.

I would highly recommend a pre-professional school with great engineering and business programs for your kid. Suggestions include:

Penn
Dartmouth
Drexel
Georgetown
Pitt
Colgate
Bucknell
UMD
Northeastern

Do NOT send your kid to a SLAC unless they’re known to be great at career placement (Colgate and Bucknell are two examples).

The time to focus on ROI is NOW!

Anonymous wrote:I know “engineering” is the opposite of “doesn’t know what he wants to do,” but to me it is the epitome of high stats plus low intellectual curiosity. (Happy Father’s Day to my engineer dad!) Maybe take some time this summer to explore whether that might be a good path.

Whether engineering or undecided, look at Bucknell. Pitt honors, U of SC honors, and Tulane would all provide access to a small city full of potential internships.

Say what?!
OP's kid won't make it out alive in the state they are right now.
A lot of engineering is humiliation (exams with the mean at 60, weed out classes, etc.) You have to want it to keep going unless you are a superstar.

Anonymous wrote:I've seen this movie enough times to have quite a clear prescription. You might not like it. Sharp kids who aren't intellectual should study engineering if they want that and business if they don't. Especially if they're jocks. Your DC probably would hate a SLAC; he'd probably love IU-Kelley. And he'd have good job options afterwards.

A kid can be "sharp" and still have zero interest in or aptitude for engineering, any form of engineering. And engineering is NOT a field to go into unless you actually want to be doing it -- no matter what "good job options" there are.

OP was very clear that her kid has no idea yet what he wants to study. Prescribing an engineering major for a kid who is burned out even before starting college, a kid who may or may not have STEM aptitude, is a recipe for a phenomenally stressed freshman who will hate academics at college too, not "rebuild his love for learning."

OP needs ideas about college environments and overall fit, not about specific majors, not yet.

To the OP: Please re-read the post at 8:53 about a potential gap year. That parent is speaking from experience and notes how the gap year helped her kid focus on some subjects, as well as get a break. A gap year is more common now, I think, and even pre-pandemic I knew of smart, academic kids who took them; a friend's son spent the year doing a combination of down time, volunteering for political campaigns (he was interested in possibly studying law with an eye to working on the Hill), and structured experiences studying--like, four weeks doing a sound engineering course (another interest), etc. I would require my kid to do some structured experiences and volunteer over the year like my friend's son did, but if a gap year would help, it's worth considering.

DCUM people like throwing out the top schools as solutions. Very unrealistic given the OP's post.

If you live in the DC area, try a college like Stevenson. .

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:High stats and demoralized? What does that mean?

It means mcps grade inflation, test prep and other supports to get high stats, after effect of covid remote learning, not connecting with curriculum/teachers, coasting to get whatever grace, etc

One can be high stats at mcps and still be concerned that a child may not thrive in a more driven college environment.

Or it means a smart hard worker who burned out.

Also, the 80th, 90th, 95th percentile marks at those suburban powerhouse schools are just a lot higher than the national marks. As a result it’s possible to be objectively high stats while feeling like you’ll never be very good. And it doesn’t help that everyone is telling you that college will be even more demanding when, objectively, most colleges (even most T50 colleges) are less demanding.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:High stats and demoralized? What does that mean?

It means mcps grade inflation, test prep and other supports to get high stats, after effect of covid remote learning, not connecting with curriculum/teachers, coasting to get whatever grace, etc

One can be high stats at mcps and still be concerned that a child may not thrive in a more driven college environment.

Or it means a smart hard worker who burned out.

I would consider a gap year. DS ('22) was a high stats HS student. He applied to college and got into one of his choice (he deferred a year). We also said he could apply/reapply to schools if he changed his mind. He worked, volunteered, traveled, got his EMT. He also read a bunch of the books on the State Dept and CIA reading lists (publicly posted) as he has an interest in international relations. He commented about 2 months ago he is ready for school. Sometimes you just need a mental break....

I have heard people rave about WPI for project-based learning.

Anonymous wrote:High stats and demoralized? What does that mean?

It means mcps grade inflation, test prep and other supports to get high stats, after effect of covid remote learning, not connecting with curriculum/teachers, coasting to get whatever grace, etc

One can be high stats at mcps and still be concerned that a child may not thrive in a more driven college environment.

I've seen this movie enough times to have quite a clear prescription. You might not like it. Sharp kids who aren't intellectual should study engineering if they want that and business if they don't. Especially if they're jocks. Your DC probably would hate a SLAC; he'd probably love IU-Kelley. And he'd have good job options afterwards.